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[lunchwithyuzo]

Killer 7 sold 23k across GC & PS2 it's debut NPD for comparison. lol.

 

[Duxxy3]

Japanese gamers aren't buying Western titles but Western studios aren't retreating to handhelds. The only reason Japanese devs are moving to handhelds is because Japanese gamers have shown that they want portability over the experiences PC/consoles can do.
.

Media Create Sales: Week 27, 2011 (Jul 04 - Jul 10)

01./00. [PS3] L.A. Noire | ADV | (Take-Two Interactive) {2011.07.07} | ¥7.770 | - 58.436 / NEW <50,00%>
02./00. [PS3] Infamous 2 | ACT | (SCE) {2011.07.07} | ¥5.980 | - 33.474 / NEW

Not too shabby for 2 western games

 

[outunderthestars]

Btw, are Xbox'es being produced in the States or China?

I don't think any electronics are manufactured in the U.S. anymore...

 

[Vinci]

Fair enough, but what new experiences is the Wii U offering that the Wii Sports gamer would want? Wii Sports brought the family together, Wii U allows one gamer to play alone, hunched over their controller while everyone else watches tv. Wii Sports was a great physical experience, Wii U has a touch screen. From the perspective of the Wii Sports gamer, Wii U seems like a downgrade.

For what it's worth, because I don't disagree with the majority of your post, but every Wii Sports player that I've shown Chase Mii and Battle Mii videos to has thought it looked 'like another Wii' and they're excited for it. There's no reason why the asymmetrical nature of the Wii U should alienate family members from one another unless the software specifically is built to do so. In the case of those two demos, it isn't true - and I think it serves another aspect of the Wii audience that you're downplaying: Watching others play is actually entertaining. I cannot tell you how many times a party would have one person playing Wii Fit while the others watched and had a good time doing it. When they saw the Battle Mii spaceship player turning around in circles next to the other players, it brought that feeling back.

I truly think that many of the Wii concept fans and analysts, such as yourself, Kilrogg, and Malstrom, are getting the Wii U wrong. It honestly has a great deal of potential for both Wii fans and core gamers.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Media Create Sales: Week 27, 2011 (Jul 04 - Jul 10)

01./00. [PS3] L.A. Noire | ADV | (Take-Two Interactive) {2011.07.07} | ¥7.770 | - 58.436 / NEW <50,00%>
02./00. [PS3] Infamous 2 | ACT | (SCE) {2011.07.07} | ¥5.980 | - 33.474 / NEW

Not too shabby for 2 western games

A 58k opening for LA Noire in Japan is almost like a 200k opening for Final Fantasy vs 13 in the US. Decent if it were just any game, woefully low relative to its performance in other regions and other AAA software.

 

[MeBecomingI]

It's the updates and installs that are in your face. There are more OS/UI intrusions in using the PS3 than the 360. A lot more. The 360 UI is more about fun. It's simpler.

It's no more a hardcore gamer's machine than the 360. There are lots of PS3's in use as a dedicated blu-ray player while the 360 is always used as a game console (other than Netflix of course).

Sony's exclusives aren't that exciting. I have Heavy Rain, Folklore, Uncharted 2, MGS4, most of the PSN exclusives, and while they're very good, they are not in the same league as Halo 3 or Gears of War 2 in terms of fun. I'm not sure how else to put it, but I just don't have long gaming sessions with the PS3 exclusives for some reason. Even Forza 3 is more fun than Gran Turismo 5. I love my PS3 but this is why it sells less than 360, even though it's a better console in some ways. The 360 is more fun.

Being in your face is entirely dependent upon how you view "in your face," though. I am going to assume you mean system updates, so in pure terms, the updates are not in your face... a small notification in the top corner that there is a system update, and you can then update at your own convenience. However, the only real intrusion I can think of is installing a game, agreed. I wish Sony would correct that... Anyway, there really is very little difference between the two user interfaces, because after the recent dashboard update, two are extremely similar in style, both are easy to use and visually pretty, so one is no more factually fun that the other; it just comes down to personal preference. Secondly, it is not bad to state that the 360 UI is simpler than the XMB, because once again, that is entirely opinionated and there is no real discernible evidence to prove "fun and simpler" and thus to effectively affect sales of either console? Yes, because fun for you might mean hell for someone else.

Both consoles are just as hardcore as the other, agreed. But how can you say that there are a lot PS3's in use as a dedicated Blu-Ray player and then state that the 360 is always used for games so matter of fact?! Every person can use each console differenty; I use my PS3 as a dedicated Blu-Ray player... because it is the only one I have! But guess what? I also use it primarily for video games. Yes, there are bound to be people that would use it just as Blu-Ray player, but just the same, there are also people bound to use the 360 purely for Netflix... that is why people have options with the 360 and PS3. You can do whatever you want with it. You sound as if you know for a fact what each consoles is purely used for... can I have that power too? Don't state that as fact, because it is simply not true. Also, you shouldn't state that the 360 is only used for games, and then throw in "other than Netflix of course." Kind of kills your point...

Finally, in your opinion, "Sony's exclusives aren't that exciting." You should probably throw that in there next time, because that is not fact. Likewise with claiming they are not in the same league as Halo 3 or Gears of War 2 in terms of fun. That is entirely opinionated, and yet you state that as a matter of fact that explains why the 360 is selling more than the PS3. I just don't even... People buy the 360 based on a number of factors, just like the PS3.

If you had stated this as opinion before you said anything, I wouldn't be making this post. However, you just stated this so matter of fact that I just had to chip in. I am not attacking your opinion in anyway, keep in mind. I hope you don't take offence to this, as I meant none.

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

I don't think any electronics are manufactured in the U.S. anymore...

Don't quote me on it but I believe NA Xbox's are made in Mexico.

 

[test_account]

A 58k opening for LA Noire in Japan is almost like a 200k opening for Final Fantasy vs 13 in the US. Decent if it were just any game, woefully low relative to its performance in other regions and other AAA software.

It is not that low for Japan. I.e Red Dead Redemption's first week sales in Japan was around 66k. It shall be interesting to see how much LA Noire sells in it's 2nd week in Japan though =)

 

[Infinite Justice]

Being in your face is entirely dependent upon how you view "in your face," though. I am going to assume you mean system updates, so in pure terms, the updates are not in your face... a small notification in the top corner that there is a system update, and you can then update at your own convenience. However, the only real intrusion I can think of is installing a game, agreed.

plus game patching. That shit can get ridiculous.

 

[outunderthestars]

Don't quote me on it but I believe NA Xbox's are made in Mexico.

I remember reading somewhere that 360's were made in China, Mexico, and Hungary, but MS has since closed the facilities in Mexico and Hungary.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Being in your face is entirely dependent upon how you view "in your face," though. I am going to assume you mean system updates, so in pure terms, the updates are not in your face... a small notification in the top corner that there is a system update, and you can then update at your own convenience. However, the only real intrusion I can think of is installing a game, agreed. I wish Sony would correct that... Anyway, there really is very little difference between the two user interfaces, because after the recent dashboard update, two are extremely similar in style, both are easy to use and visually pretty, so one is no more factually fun that the other; it just comes down to personal preference. Secondly, it is not bad to state that the 360 UI is simpler than the XMB, because once again, that is entirely opinionated and there is no real discernible evidence to prove "fun and simpler" and thus to effectively affect sales of either console? Yes, because fun for you might mean hell for someone else.

Both consoles are just as hardcore as the other, agreed. But how can you say that there are a lot PS3's in use as a dedicated Blu-Ray player and then state that the 360 is always used for games so matter of fact?! Every person can use each console differenty; I use my PS3 as a dedicated Blu-Ray player... because it is the only one I have! But guess what? I also use it primarily for video games. Yes, there are bound to be people that would use it just as Blu-Ray player, but just the same, there are also people bound to use the 360 purely for Netflix... that is why people have options with the 360 and PS3. You can do whatever you want with it. You sound as if you know for a fact what each consoles is purely used for... can I have that power too? Don't state that as fact, because it is simply not true. Also, you shouldn't state that the 360 is only used for games, and then throw in "other than Netflix of course." Kind of kills your point...

Finally, in your opinion, "Sony's exclusives aren't that exciting." You should probably throw that in there next time, because that is not fact. Likewise with claiming they are not in the same league as Halo 3 or Gears of War 2 in terms of fun. That is entirely opinionated, and yet you state that as a matter of fact that explains why the 360 is selling more than the PS3. I just don't even... People buy the 360 based on a number of factors, just like the PS3.

If you had stated this as opinion before you said anything, I wouldn't be making this post. However, you just stated this so matter of fact that I just had to chip in. I am not attacking your opinion in anyway, keep in mind. I hope you don't take offence to this, as I meant none.

Why do you think the 360 has significantly outsold the PS3 in the US since the slim model launched? Note that the $299 model outsells the $199 model, so an argument entirely predicated on price is probably a bad one. Feel free to provide multiple reasons and rank them.

 

[Dai101]

Don't quote me on it but I believe NA Xbox's are made in Mexico.

Not anymore. They took the project from the Flextronics plant in GDL to other of their plants. They only are servicing Kinects in said plant, if one of my friends that still work there are correct.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

EDIT makes no sense.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

It is not that low for Japan. I.e Red Dead Redemption's first week sales in Japan was around 66k. It shall be interesting to see how much LA Noire sells in it's 2nd week in Japan though =)

"For Japan", in the context of the discussion, is meaningful. 66k is still a relatively terrible opening for a AAA rockstar game in a territory with 6 million PS3s. No Western dev could depend on Japanese console game sales as their primary source of revenue. But they didn't abandon console gaming as a result. Plenty of japanese developers/franchises have.

 

[Infamous Chris]

Being in your face is entirely dependent upon how you view "in your face," though. I am going to assume you mean system updates, so in pure terms, the updates are not in your face... a small notification in the top corner that there is a system update, and you can then update at your own convenience. However, the only real intrusion I can think of is installing a game, agreed. I wish Sony would correct that... Anyway, there really is very little difference between the two user interfaces, because after the recent dashboard update, two are extremely similar in style, both are easy to use and visually pretty, so one is no more factually fun that the other; it just comes down to personal preference. Secondly, it is not bad to state that the 360 UI is simpler than the XMB, because once again, that is entirely opinionated and there is no real discernible evidence to prove "fun and simpler" and thus to effectively affect sales of either console? Yes, because fun for you might mean hell for someone else.

Both consoles are just as hardcore as the other, agreed. But how can you say that there are a lot PS3's in use as a dedicated Blu-Ray player and then state that the 360 is always used for games so matter of fact?! Every person can use each console differenty; I use my PS3 as a dedicated Blu-Ray player... because it is the only one I have! But guess what? I also use it primarily for video games. Yes, there are bound to be people that would use it just as Blu-Ray player, but just the same, there are also people bound to use the 360 purely for Netflix... that is why people have options with the 360 and PS3. You can do whatever you want with it. You sound as if you know for a fact what each consoles is purely used for... can I have that power too? Don't state that as fact, because it is simply not true. Also, you shouldn't state that the 360 is only used for games, and then throw in "other than Netflix of course." Kind of kills your point...

Finally, in your opinion, "Sony's exclusives aren't that exciting." You should probably throw that in there next time, because that is not fact. Likewise with claiming they are not in the same league as Halo 3 or Gears of War 2 in terms of fun. That is entirely opinionated, and yet you state that as a matter of fact that explains why the 360 is selling more than the PS3. I just don't even... People buy the 360 based on a number of factors, just like the PS3.

If you had stated this as opinion before you said anything, I wouldn't be making this post. However, you just stated this so matter of fact that I just had to chip in. I am not attacking your opinion in anyway, keep in mind. I hope you don't take offence to this, as I meant none.

It's obvious it was his opinion. Why are you getting so offended?

He's right in the regards that tons of people use PS3 as a BR player solely; years ago it was the cheapest BR player on the market and working in Gamestop I know that many people bought it just for that, especially around holidays.

Also, you have to be kidding me if you're a multi-console owner and you call the XMB more "fun" than the dashboard. It's about as fun as a bag of marbles. Simpler though? I can't say.

 

[test_account]

"For Japan", in the context of the discussion, is meaningful. 66k is still a relatively terrible opening for a AAA rockstar game in a territory with 6 million PS3s. No Western dev could depend on Japanese console game sales as their primary source of revenue. But they didn't abandon console gaming as a result. Plenty of japanese developers/franchises have.

True. I'm not saying that it is a high number, but western game doing low numbers in Japan is not that uncommon. It would be more surprising to see a 200k FFXIII release in the US compared to see LA Noire doing like 58k in Japan, in my opinion. But i see now that you're talking more about depending on revenue, that is true. I first thought you ment that 58k for a game like LA Noire was poor compared to what western games usually sell in Japan.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

cant believe shadows of the damned on 2 platforms sold 24,000 copies!
i thought that's impossible to happen,when was it released?


"At the same time, Shadows of the Damned managed to sell 24,000 copies, combined, on PS3 and Xbox 360. Damn."
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/15/zelda-sold-well-in-june-child-of-eden-and-shadows-of-the-damned/

Combined?

Wow. That's really bad.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Both consoles are just as hardcore as the other, agreed. But how can you say that there are a lot PS3's in use as a dedicated Blu-Ray player and then state that the 360 is always used for games so matter of fact?!

For years, the most popular BluRay player has been the PS3, and forums such as AVSForum have lots of members that have PS3's in their racks for their home theaters, and they don't use it for games.

If you had stated this as opinion before you said anything, I wouldn't be making this post. However, you just stated this so matter of fact that I just had to chip in. I am not attacking your opinion in anyway, keep in mind. I hope you don't take offence to this, as I meant none.

No offense taken, you're 100% right, it's definitely not a fact. It's just something I notice, between the two consoles. It makes sense to me, when trying to determine just why there is such a disparity in sales, yet the PS3 has such significant advantages.

 

[walking fiend]

We really don't have anywhere near enough data for you to make that statement. The software sales are likely less than when there were more games released, but how much less and what the absolute numbers are we have no idea. I remember checking back when we got more data what percentage of total monthly sales that usually come from the top ten, and IIRC it was less than 20%.

at best it is moving as much as 360, while at some point both hardware/software sales of Wii superceded the two combined. HD market has the crown at moment. We have numbers, I just don't remember where I read it, probably a microsoft PR, but I remember, like 85% sure, 360 being either more or extremely close.

if it was DS, I would have even blamed it on piracy, but Wii's market, I believe, will mostly never bother with complicated piracy methods of Wii (compared to a flash card).

Fair enough, but what new experiences is the Wii U offering that the Wii Sports gamer would want? Wii Sports brought the family together, Wii U allows one gamer to play alone, hunched over their controller while everyone else watches tv. Wii Sports was a great physical experience, Wii U has a touch screen. From the perspective of the Wii Sports gamer, Wii U seems like a downgrade.

1. (conceptual upgrade) for me at least, being physically close, even if participating in different activities, brings a lot more closeness than being physically separate and participating in a similar activity. That is, I believe studying different topics in a room with your friend sitting next to you, is a much more friendlier activity than playing Mario Kart online.

2. (conceptual upgrade) symetrical gameplay of the Wii had a semi conceptual shortcoming. Let's say that I want to play Wii Sports with my Mom, which I actually do; the problem is that I have to hold myself back considerably in order to become able to play with my Mom and not obliterate the game. Or let's say my little nephew comes over and badgers me to play Mario Kart with him The problem is again the same, he can't play even MK as good enough to keep my interest in the game. (on a side note, He is 4-5 years old and at first forced me to let him play Gran Turismo first, and since he couldn't even move, I implored him to play MK. Now he asks me to boot up MK himself)

Wii U offers the option, at least from a conceptual point, to make the person in charge of the Wii U controller play a more complex or challenging role than those who play using the remote. I believe both of the games shown from nintendo, were actually using this: 4 person were against 1.

I can see myself enjoying family oriented games this way much more.

3. (practical usage upgrade) again, most of the time when my nephews or nieces (most of them are little kids) come over, they can't play without someone interrupting them for news, tv series, etc. And they can get along with one of them playing, others watching.

in a similar situation, most of the times that I want to use fitness coach on the wii myself, someone else is using TV, my sister, my mom, my dad. (our house is really small to fit another TV somewhere that I can actually excercise.)

4. (conceptual upgrade) playing simple games such as chess on the tablet, is a great addition to the more console like games. I think I can even have my dad who is 100$ anti-gaming to play with me.

5. (Practical usage upgrade) there's a psychological difference between, say, DS or iPad compared to the Wii U. Wii U is not a personal belonging as is iPad and DS, so I can see it being used much more for family oriented activites.


---
However, I believe the problem with Wii U will be the lack of enough resources at Nintendo to execute and develop these ideas, among many other ideas you me or they may come up with. They have only 4000 employees and have to handle more than 200 million devices. They really need to expand.

 

[DiZ_O]

Wow at the 360 Numbers.
They can thank the hackers for that PSN outage.

 

[tim.mbp]

Does anyone know the ranking of video game market size by country? I know the US is the single largest market, but has the UK passed Japan as the second largest market?

 

[timetokill]

cant believe shadows of the damned on 2 platforms sold 24,000 copies!
i thought that's impossible to happen,when was it released?

Suda's fanbase is on Wii confirmed

 

[walking fiend]

Does anyone know the ranking of video game market size by country? I know the US is the single largest market, but has the UK passed Japan as the second largest market?

europe 2010:
Ordered by Software Revenue in Euros:

United Kingdom: 1,863 million
Germany: 1,513 million
France: 1,393 million
Spain: 631 million

the rest here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434185

---
i believe it doesn't include digital distribution on PC, which I believe is around 4 billion totally.

Suda's fanbase is on Wii confirmed

NMH2 sold 25K in 5 days (jan 2010 NPD)

 

[DR2K]

Why do you think the 360 has significantly outsold the PS3 in the US since the slim model launched? Note that the $299 model outsells the $199 model, so an argument entirely predicated on price is probably a bad one. Feel free to provide multiple reasons and rank them.

Is there a breakdown on how much each model sells?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Is there a breakdown on how much each model sells?

Every so often we get ASP ("average sale price") and in a two-model system--or even a three-model system, you can do a breakdown. Pachter and other analysts also occasionally comment. I'm sorry to say I don't have anything on-hand, except that I remember that the Kinect bundles were consistently outselling the base models.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

It's the updates and installs that are in your face. There are more OS/UI intrusions in using the PS3 than the 360. A lot more. The 360 UI is more about fun. It's simpler.

I think you have a different definition for simple. The 360 UI is more about fun? since when am i browsing through menu's for fun, if it's there it has to be functional and it very much is. Th problem with the UI is that it's competitor has it beat in "Simplicity" the XMB may be bland but it dam well is simpler to use.

It's no more a hardcore gamer's machine than the 360. There are lots of PS3's in use as a dedicated blu-ray player while the 360 is always used as a game console (other than Netflix of course).

Agreed, it's ignorance on his part to think that the PS3 is more "Hardcore" than the 360, but wtf at "dedicated blu-ray player".

Sony's exclusives aren't that exciting. I have Heavy Rain, Folklore, Uncharted 2, MGS4, most of the PSN exclusives, and while they're very good, they are not in the same league as Halo 3 or Gears of War 2 in terms of fun. I'm not sure how else to put it, but I just don't have long gaming sessions with the PS3 exclusives for some reason. Even Forza 3 is more fun than Gran Turismo 5. I love my PS3 but this is why it sells less than 360, even though it's a better console in some ways. The 360 is more fun.

If you don't find Sony exclusives exciting (at least one) then you are not a gamer, simple. and wth is more "FUN" can someone explain this to me.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Also Kinnect marketing was decent through this whole process

I mean I saw Just Dance commercials left and right on my TV

"You are the Controller"...."Get on the Dance Floor...Come on DJ...(Cascada - Evacuate the Dance Floor)"

Fuck even LA Noire had decent marketing push, DNF too..."Hail to the King Baby!"
(LA Noire went for the old school jazz-infused detective vibe commercial, DNF just went balls to the wall)

I mean I didn't see 1 inFAMOUS 2 commercial, it's crazy if you think about it

Sony could've been smart and thrown a commercial on ESPN about their BLOPS offer, netting you a PS3 + COD BLOPS + DLC for $299 & a $50/$100 Gift Card

I mean Jesus, sometime you have to spend money to make money. Casual will not go out of there way to purchase core-hardcore games, you have to attract the eyeballs, and then try to get them hooked

Damn I miss Kevin Butler, at least they had Socom commercial running even through the PSN outage

 

[MeBecomingI]

plus game patching. That shit can get ridiculous.

Agreed.

It's obvious it was his opinion. Why are you getting so offended?

He's right in the regards that tons of people use PS3 as a BR player solely; years ago it was the cheapest BR player on the market and working in Gamestop I know that many people bought it just for that, especially around holidays.

Also, you have to be kidding me if you're a multi-console owner and you call the XMB more "fun" than the dashboard. It's about as fun as a bag of marbles. Simpler though? I can't say.

Well of course it is his opinion, but mentioning that is a good starting point. Although I have said in other threads that I get annoyed when people express their opinion as fact, I am in no way shape or form offended. That is completely ridiculous. I really don't even understand how you can call that getting offended... ease up.

And yes, I am aware that people use their PS3s solely as Blu-Ray players. I even said as much in my post, but people change and those same people might not be using it solely as a Blu-Ray player anymore. My issue is more with "360 always used for games."

I don't know if you are referring to me or just in general, but I never said the XMB is more fun that the dashboard. I said that one is no more factually fun that the other and that is comes to personal preference. Personally, as a multi console owner, I love them both!

Why do you think the 360 has significantly outsold the PS3 in the US since the slim model launched? Note that the $299 model outsells the $199 model, so an argument entirely predicated on price is probably a bad one. Feel free to provide multiple reasons and rank them.

Well, I don't think I can rank them, because there are no base singular reasons that can't all be attributed together. In my opinion, it is a combination of a number of factors. Considering the 360 has been building momentum for years now, it has grown an especially strong mix (since the slim, especially) of word of mouth, large and dedicated Live community and continuing hardware and software expansion that have greatly contributed to its success. Generally speaking, the redesign obviously piqued interest in the console; no different than the slim PS3 launching piqued the interest of people. The slim model caught the interest of everyone, especially because it was a sharp look and "launched" the same day as they announced it. Obviously, word picked up quickly and as usual with console redesigns, it released to a generous sales figure. Microsoft really played it smart though. They launched it at a good time, especially with Madden around the corner in August and the juggernaut of a Halo game in September.

Microsoft completely outplayed Sony and Nintendo regarding their release schedule... and damn well everything else too. They had a nice hardware revision earlier and kept up a smooth flow of software and word of mouth. Of course, than the real forces came out in November, and I think that is primarily where most of the momentum for the 360 has come from and remained. Of course, I am talking about Kinect and BLOPS. Hardcore gamers may or may not like Kinect, but it really hit well with the casual crowd that may never have touched the 360 before, hence the huge (and continued) sales of the Kinect bundle. Of course, they also had the power of a Call of Duty coming out, with a well known exclusive DLC deal to help solidify a 360 purchase over a PS3 for those that might want to jump in to the 360.

Right now, I think a lot of the 360' success over the PS3 can be attributed to Kinect and a steady stable of software releases. Kinect drives the hardware out to a large casual (and to some extent the hardcore) market and the steady software and Live can appeal to a hardcore gamer that owns a PS3 or PC or whatever else looking to get 360. Word of mouth is helping out, especially with Kinect. Microsoft has done an amazing job in advertising and supporting Kinect, and that is passing off onto other aspects of the system as well. Sony doesn't really have anything quite as big as Kinect nor does it have the same word of mouth that the 360 has, and that is becoming quickly apparent.

For years, the most popular BluRay player has been the PS3, and forums such as AVSForum have lots of members that have PS3's in their racks for their home theaters, and they don't use it for games.



No offense taken, you're 100% right, it's definitely not a fact. It's just something I notice, between the two consoles. It makes sense to me, when trying to determine just why there is such a disparity in sales, yet the PS3 has such significant advantages.

True, it has been the most popular and I don't disagree with that at all. People do use it as a dedicated player, but that doesn't mean a lot more don't use it purely as a games machine.

Well, I am glad we are cool then! I just want to emphasize that I understand your point, and I respect it.

 

[boiled goose]

Holy shit at xbox. amazing sales and definitely deserved.
except for a few small things, Ms has done a great job this gen.

 

[Ozzykamikaze]

Does that include 360s people got for free with Windows 7 computers?

 

[Loudninja]

Does that include 360s people got for free with Windows 7 computers?

Yes.

 

[kame-sennin]

For what it's worth, because I don't disagree with the majority of your post, but every Wii Sports player that I've shown Chase Mii and Battle Mii videos to has thought it looked 'like another Wii' and they're excited for it. There's no reason why the asymmetrical nature of the Wii U should alienate family members from one another unless the software specifically is built to do so. In the case of those two demos, it isn't true - and I think it serves another aspect of the Wii audience that you're downplaying: Watching others play is actually entertaining. I cannot tell you how many times a party would have one person playing Wii Fit while the others watched and had a good time doing it. When they saw the Battle Mii spaceship player turning around in circles next to the other players, it brought that feeling back.

I truly think that many of the Wii concept fans and analysts, such as yourself, Kilrogg, and Malstrom, are getting the Wii U wrong. It honestly has a great deal of potential for both Wii fans and core gamers.

These are really good points. I will concede that it's way too early to condemn Wii U, and I think most of the animosity towards it comes from what Nintendo has done with Wii and 3DS in the past three years, rather than what they showed at E3.

Having said that, a company's past and current behavior is usually a good indicator of what they're thinking and where they're headed. We saw Nintendo experimenting with motion controls and trying to make their games more accessible in the GC era, which telegraphed their direction with the Wii. More importantly, there's still the issue of convincing the expanded audience to buy new hardware. By definition, these are customers who haven't bought much hardware at all - they are not acclimated to the 5 year hardware cycle. They have to be convinced that buying a new box is worth while. Battle Mii may look great and customers may express purchasing intent, but when it's time to actually put money down, the expanded audience may decide to pass. If you bought the Wii for Wii Sports or Mario Kart or Wii Fit, you probably don't care about, or really notice graphics all that much. That kind of customer might easily ask, "why can't I play Battle Mii on the system I already have?" or "why doesn't this new controller work with the Wii?". I think the Wii Sports gamer is not going to understand (or care) what the benefits of the new hardware are. That's especially true if the only non-controller benefits are HD and online. Your argument is that the software looks good, but is the software good enough to convince customers to by a new machine?

 

[DSN2K]

unsure how dissapointed Nintendo will be with the 3DS...certainly not great numbers but DS is still selling 300K...the brand is strong, people are simply buying the cheaper model.

Average buyer thinks the 3DS is just the premium version, Nintendo need to change that perception.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Average buyer thinks the 3DS is just the premium version, Nintendo need to change that perception.

Thats how I think people see it too.

People saw the DS, DSlite, DSi, DS XL. . they think the 3DS is an expensive 3D DS. Judging by the sales so far, the 3D isn't as big of a draw as a lot of people thought it would be. Personally I thought the 3DS would be doing much better than this.

I really thought it would be doing gangbusters.

 

[timetokill]

NMH2 sold 25K in 5 days (jan 2010 NPD)

So 1K more than Shadows, and NMH2 was the one Suda didnt' really work on anyway IIRC

 

[electroplankton]

Media Create Sales: Week 27, 2011 (Jul 04 - Jul 10)

01./00. [PS3] L.A. Noire | ADV | (Take-Two Interactive) {2011.07.07} | ¥7.770 | - 58.436 / NEW <50,00%>
02./00. [PS3] Infamous 2 | ACT | (SCE) {2011.07.07} | ¥5.980 | - 33.474 / NEW

Not too shabby for 2 western games

Good for Infamous 2, but I heard that LA Noire sold just the 50% of its first shipment, which is not particularly high actually..

 

[Shurs]

Note that the $299 model outsells the $199 model...

I don't know if I'm reading this incorrectly, but according to this article, I don't think the $299 model outsells the base model.

My math skills are horrible, but if the $299 and higher models outsell the $199 model, shouldn't the average sale price be higher than $250?

The article I linked to says that in 2010, the average sale price of a 360 was "about $235." They state, through May 31st, they believe the average sale price of each 360 sold this year is $223.

Wouldn't that indicate that the $199 unit is the most popular?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Why do you think the 360 has significantly outsold the PS3 in the US since the slim model launched? Note that the $299 model outsells the $199 model, so an argument entirely predicated on price is probably a bad one. Feel free to provide multiple reasons and rank them.

To most prospective customers, the PS3 and 360 are largely identical consoles minus regional preferences for Gears/Halo vs GT/Metal Gear.

MS has the second and third most popular online shooters (after CoD) and the largest english-speaking online userbase. This has a snowball effect on all future purchases, even if the primary reason of purchase is a 3rd party game (Madden/AC/GT).

In countries where Halo and Gears haven't taken off (particularly Germany, where Gears 1 and 2 weren't released iirc, and games like Mass Effect sell much better on PC) or countries where GT/MGS are must-have franchises, or countries where a large english online base is irrelevant, the PS3 is the go-to system.

Minus the occasional breakout hit (Uncharted, God of War, Left 4 Dead, Fable) the vast majority of MS' and Sony's first/second/third party exclusive games hold zero sway for consumer intent (this is reflected in sales), which is why most of the list wars in sales-age threads are pointless.

This was true before the launch of Kinect/Move.

 

[Sempuukyaku]

Solid numbers for Zelda. 3DS should be in great shape come holiday season with the new games coming out.

 

[TheOddOne]

To most prospective customers, the PS3 and 360 are largely identical consoles minus regional preferences for Gears/Halo vs GT/Metal Gear.

MS has the second and third most popular online shooters (after CoD) and the largest english-speaking online userbase. This has a snowball effect on all future purchases, even if the primary reason of purchase is a 3rd party game (Madden/AC/GT).

In countries where Halo and Gears haven't taken off (particularly Germany, where Gears 1 and 2 weren't released iirc, and games like Mass Effect sell much better on PC) or countries where GT/MGS are must-have franchises, or countries where a large english online base is irrelevant, the PS3 is the go-to system.

Minus the occasional breakout hit (Uncharted, God of War, Left 4 Dead, Fable) the vast majority of MS' and Sony's first/second/third party exclusive games hold zero sway for consumer intent (this is reflected in sales), which is why most of the list wars in sales-age threads are pointless.

This was true before the launch of Kinect/Move.

This man knows what he's talking about.

 

[EagleEyes]

This man knows what he's talking about.

I second this. Its nice seeing some actual logic on the internet sometimes.

 

[TheNatural]

To most prospective customers, the PS3 and 360 are largely identical consoles minus regional preferences for Gears/Halo vs GT/Metal Gear.

MS has the second and third most popular online shooters (after CoD) and the largest english-speaking online userbase. This has a snowball effect on all future purchases, even if the primary reason of purchase is a 3rd party game (Madden/AC/GT).

In countries where Halo and Gears haven't taken off (particularly Germany, where Gears 1 and 2 weren't released iirc, and games like Mass Effect sell much better on PC) or countries where GT/MGS are must-have franchises, or countries where a large english online base is irrelevant, the PS3 is the go-to system.

Minus the occasional breakout hit (Uncharted, God of War, Left 4 Dead, Fable) the vast majority of MS' and Sony's first/second/third party exclusive games hold zero sway for consumer intent (this is reflected in sales), which is why most of the list wars in sales-age threads are pointless.

This was true before the launch of Kinect/Move.

This man speaks the truth. I imagine a lot of people buy 360's because the people they know have Live and want to play with them. Which is ironic since it's the service that actually costs money. I wonder if 360 got a decent boost lately too because of PS3 customers being disenchanted with their online and PSN outage and switching over to 360. Not saying a huge boost, but it wouldn't surprise me if more than a few did that.

 

[CadetMahoney]

In countries where Halo and Gears haven't taken off or countries where GT/MGS are must-have franchises, or countries where a large english online base is irrelevant, the PS3 is the go-to system.

I don't know if that's more about brand loyalty going from a solid PS2 era than anything. Europe is considered Sony-land or something.

 

[Aaron Strife]

Thats how I think people see it too.

People saw the DS, DSlite, DSi, DS XL. . they think the 3DS is an expensive 3D DS. Judging by the sales so far, the 3D isn't as big of a draw as a lot of people thought it would be. Personally I thought the 3DS would be doing much better than this.

I really thought it would be doing gangbusters.

Not to damage control but didn't DS have a slow start too?

I think it's more of a software problem than anything, but Nintendo also needs to do a better job of separating the 3DS from the DS line.

OoT3D selling to like what, half the consumer base? shows where the money is. Once Mario, Star Fox, Kid Icarus etc. are out, they should be on a roll.

 

[gerg]

Jokerpia has already popped the 'people only bought Wii Sports' myth (again) earlier in this thread.

That wasn't what I meant to suggest. See below:

People who bought the Wii for Wii Sports went on to buy Mario Kart, Wii Fit, and WSR.

Mario Kart and Wii Fit represent different types of experiences than Wii Sports. My point was that gamers who were interested in the Wii for the "motion-controlled sports" of Wii Sports back when the Wii launched wouldn't have felt the controller lacking such that WSR ever represented a particularly large bounty for hardware sales. That's because Motion Plus represents solely a technical improvement upon the original Wii Remote.

Fair enough, but what new experiences is the Wii U offering that the Wii Sports gamer would want? Wii Sports brought the family together, Wii U allows one gamer to play alone, hunched over their controller while everyone else watches tv. Wii Sports was a great physical experience, Wii U has a touch screen. From the perspective of the Wii Sports gamer, Wii U seems like a downgrade.

The Wii U controller allows for different types of social experiences (with one player interacting against up to four others in a unique manner), as Nintendo demonstrated at E3. It also allows for different ways of (physically) using the controller with the TV (such as catching arrows being fired at you), as also demonstrated at E3.

From the perspective of the Wii Sports gamer, the Wii U seems like an incredibly interesting and fun development of the brand that has catered best to their tastes.

Did you not watch the promotional video Nintendo released?

Consider the sequence of events:

1) 2006-2008, Nintendo builds good will among customers, builds Wii brand.

2) *2009 -2011, Nintendo destroys good will among customers, destroys Wii brand.

3) 2012, Nintendo asks customers to spend $300 on a new Wii-branded product.

There's an argument to be made that they need to repair their image, fix the problem they are facing now, before they can move forward with new product releases. Otherwise, the Wii U has to be designed to repair the brand on its own. It has to convey the message, "sorry we fucked things up, but this product is much better". This can be done, but nothing about the Wii U suggests Nintendo is attempting this. Everything about Wii U seems to suggest that they are further abandoning the WS/WF/MK gamer.

As I said, I don't think the Wii brand is particularly dead.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Being in your face is entirely dependent upon how you view "in your face," though. I am going to assume you mean system updates, so in pure terms, the updates are not in your face... a small notification in the top corner that there is a system update, and you can then update at your own convenience. However, the only real intrusion I can think of is installing a game, agreed. I wish Sony would correct that... Anyway, there really is very little difference between the two user interfaces, because after the recent dashboard update, two are extremely similar in style, both are easy to use and visually pretty, so one is no more factually fun that the other; it just comes down to personal preference. Secondly, it is not bad to state that the 360 UI is simpler than the XMB, because once again, that is entirely opinionated and there is no real discernible evidence to prove "fun and simpler" and thus to effectively affect sales of either console? Yes, because fun for you might mean hell for someone else.

Both consoles are just as hardcore as the other, agreed. But how can you say that there are a lot PS3's in use as a dedicated Blu-Ray player and then state that the 360 is always used for games so matter of fact?! Every person can use each console differenty; I use my PS3 as a dedicated Blu-Ray player... because it is the only one I have! But guess what? I also use it primarily for video games. Yes, there are bound to be people that would use it just as Blu-Ray player, but just the same, there are also people bound to use the 360 purely for Netflix... that is why people have options with the 360 and PS3. You can do whatever you want with it. You sound as if you know for a fact what each consoles is purely used for... can I have that power too? Don't state that as fact, because it is simply not true. Also, you shouldn't state that the 360 is only used for games, and then throw in "other than Netflix of course." Kind of kills your point...

Finally, in your opinion, "Sony's exclusives aren't that exciting." You should probably throw that in there next time, because that is not fact. Likewise with claiming they are not in the same league as Halo 3 or Gears of War 2 in terms of fun. That is entirely opinionated, and yet you state that as a matter of fact that explains why the 360 is selling more than the PS3. I just don't even... People buy the 360 based on a number of factors, just like the PS3.

If you had stated this as opinion before you said anything, I wouldn't be making this post. However, you just stated this so matter of fact that I just had to chip in. I am not attacking your opinion in anyway, keep in mind. I hope you don't take offence to this, as I meant none.

On top of that Microsoft is actually advertising how much people use their Xbox 360's not for gaming, like it's a good thing. I think it's like 40% of the usage is non-gaming.

As for the PS3, it does seem more tedious. Every time I turn the damn thing on I'm hit with some sort of update or installation process. Whether it's another countless security system update, a game update, a mandatory install, or even worse a demo I just downloaded that I am about to play only to be hit with an update that's required for the demo I just downloaded. Those updates also seem rather large compared to the Xbox 360.

 

[Sydle]

On top of that Microsoft is actually advertising how much people use their Xbox 360's not for gaming, like it's a good thing. I think it's like 40% of the usage is non-gaming.

Why is it not a good thing?

 

[szaromir]

On top of that Microsoft is actually advertising how much people use their Xbox 360's not for gaming, like it's a good thing. I think it's like 40% of the usage is non-gaming.

Microsoft is not primarily a gaming company, so they're showing investors (and to lesser extent consumers) that with Xbox 360 they have a general entertainment device. It is a good thing for Microsoft.

 

[Klocker]

I think you have a different definition for simple. The 360 UI is more about fun?

he was saying that the UI is more intuitive software. It does what you when when you want. ie, If you click on something to buy and need more money to do so it takes you right where you need to go and then right back where you were without pressing back or thinking where you were, without anything. while other systems may do that similarly, every aspect is designed like that, it just does what you expect intuitive software to do. IMO Same thing I find with Windows Phone UI. MS knows how to design this software chit.

Microsoft is not primarily a gaming company, so they're showing investors (and to lesser extent consumers) that with Xbox 360 they have a general entertainment device. It is a good thing for Microsoft.

exactly! of course its a good thing. It is an entertainment machine. Game machines are so 1990s

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Microsoft is not primarily a gaming company, so they're showing investors (and to lesser extent consumers) that with Xbox 360 they have a general entertainment device. It is a good thing for Microsoft.

I'm not saying it isn't a good thing to them but I myself would rather see more focus in creating new IP's and building new game studios. Outside of Kinect I just don't see that happening. I would also like to see Xbox Live actually evolve where it matters most, how the games perform online. Rumor has it Gears of War 3 will have dedicated servers so I guess that's a start.

I've always used my Xbox 360 as a gaming device, first and foremost. I rarely even use it for watching DVD's. It also seems outside of the U.S. that Live members don't get as much value from being a Gold member which could explain why it does so well there.