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[LegendOfKage]

If you're censoring true information based on your subjective view of whether or not it's harmful to society, try not to look surprised when people you disagree with end up doing the same thing to your true information when they gain power. If you don't fight against censorship as a universal moral principle, that will always be the eventual outcome. No one controls power forever.

That's the sort of authoritarianism that we should be finding fault with when it happens in dictatorships, not cheering on in America and other democratic nations because the censors at that moment in time happen to share your worldview.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

When it comes to honest/truth vs. lies/covering up, it all comes down to what is typically good for society (or a company or person). Compassion vs truth.

It's exactly what my year one psych prof told me. Out of all the virtues etc.... what's more important? Compassion or Honesty? His answer? Neither. It depends on the issue and everyone has a different view.

For example, why do countries have youth offenders' names and pics purposely covered up? The truthful thing would be tell the world like an adult getting doxxed.

At work years ago, there was a big fuck up which I didn't know about until a year later. Someone in supply chain ordered too much product by accident mistaking cases for units. So instead of ordering 100 units, he ordered 100 cases. I forget the dollar value, but I think it was like an extra million too much. The product involved came in 6 packs. So he literally ordered 6x as much stock as needed. It was so bad, our company had to lease out temporary warehouse space at a third party company instead of just using our own warehouse.

It was still so much product to weed down, we dumped a lot of product at big discounts just to get rid of it at the hired warehouse. So it killed our financials for that brand as discounts skyrocketed for that brand.

I only found out because digging into the finances I realized some abnormal numbers, and then got secretly told what happened.

But this was never publicly called out grilling the guy with his name on it for everyone to know.

 

[BadBurger]

I have no idea what you people are raging against, he made a dumb tweet, realized he was wrong, and called the guy.

You guys really belong on resetera, talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

You've spent your entire time in this thread being aggressive towards everyone ("raging" to use your own words) who has been actually discussing the topic at hand. You've also been needing extremely obvious and simple things explained to you ad nauseam, suggesting that you're not actually following the story / topic, but are rather just here to be contrarian.

If you really love Musk, great. No one cares. Excuse his vile behavior and blunders all you want, ignore the realities of the deteriorating conditions with Twitter all you want, downplay every rapidly arriving twist and turn in this catasprophe all you want. Again, no one cares. But it is deeply, deeply ironic that you suggest the rest of us should be on resetera when you're behaving precisely like their most notorious users - lashing out at anyone you disagree with, choosing emotion over logic, and suggesting that they should remove themselves from the discussion or be removed. It's truly embarrassing man.

 

[Raistandantulus]

If you're censoring true information based on your subjective view of whether or not it's harmful to society, try not to look surprised when people you disagree with end up doing the same thing to your true information when they gain power. If you don't fight against censorship as a universal moral principle, that will always be the eventual outcome. No one controls power forever.

That's the sort of authoritarianism that we should be finding fault with when it happens in dictatorships, not cheering on in America and other democratic nations because the censors at that moment in time happen to share our worldview.

The quoted post from tiabbi that mentions true information appears to be specifically about the hesitancy with vaccines. Taken out of context people with a persecution complex may think it applies to anything.

Malinformation was referring to misleading and exaggerated covid information that doesn't quite reach the bar of misinformation. And, in the same context, it was about how covid true information was referring to countries that banned vaccines that may cause hesitancy. It could be guessed this is possibly to do with misrepresentation of safety to low info people and foreign govs trying to undermine. It would be helpful to know when this was enacted and if it was changed. Just saying it happened is only part of an analysis.

It appears to be quite helpful for people in the nation when there is co-operation on scientifically supported public health policy between their government, national security, and private business during a crisis.

 

[LegendOfKage]

The quoted post from tiabbi that mentions true information appears to be specifically about the hesitancy with vaccines. Taken out of context people with a persecution complex may think it applies to anything.

Malinformation was referring to misleading and exaggerated covid information that doesn't quite reach the bar of misinformation. And, in the same context, it was about how covid true information was referring to countries that banned vaccines that may cause hesitancy. It could be guessed this is possibly to do with misrepresentation of safety to low info people and foreign govs trying to undermine. It would be helpful to know when this was enacted and if it was changed. Just saying it happened is only part of an analysis.

It appears to be quite helpful for people in the nation when there is co-operation on scientifically supported public health policy between their government, national security, and private business during a crisis.

"This is what we know to be objective truth, and this is what we're uncertain about" That's all that needed to be done, as far as co-operation goes. But that doesn't involve the government telling social media companies to remove anyone's speech, much less because it's "an inconvenient truth," as the saying goes.

I'm not about to turn this into a covid thread, though. We already have one of those. If you want to debate specifics, feel free to take the conversation there.

 

[Raistandantulus]

"This is what we know to be objective truth, and this is what we're uncertain about" That's all that needed to be done, as far as co-operation goes. But that doesn't involve the government telling social media companies to remove anyone's speech, much less because it's "an inconvenient truth," as the saying goes.

I'm not about to turn this into a covid thread, though. We already have one of those. If you want to debate specifics, feel free to take the conversation there.

It was about noting what that mention about true information was specifically about in context and not your misperception of broadbased authoritarianism from it. Is science a subjective view to you?

 

[funkygunther]

Musk loves malinformation. Just check out any graph he posts about how great Twitter's doing.

 

[LegendOfKage]

It was about noting what that mention about true information was specifically about in context and not your misperception of broadbased authoritarianism from it.

If "we're censoring, but we're doing it for the good of society" is the argument, then you're not really talking about anything any different than any government that censors citizens for not agreeing with the official policy of the government. That's authoritarianism, and there's no misconception about it. It's all done "for the good of society." But if I've misinterpreted your argument, please let me know.

Is science a subjective view to you?

If subjective means not settled, then yes, and I'm guessing it is to you as well. Science should never be settled to a degree where continuing to research is discouraged, and opposing viewpoints on a situation are not allowed, especially during something as uncertain as a global pandemic.

As a quick example, do you believe gender dysphoria should be classified as a disorder and treated like it was 30 years ago? If not, you probably agree with me that science is not fully settled, and that the scientific method should be continually used to reevaluate what we believe to be true. And that certainly doesn't include the government pressuring social media to silence everyone who disagrees with them. That would be the opposite of the scientific method.

 

[Bragr]

You've spent your entire time in this thread being aggressive towards everyone ("raging" to use your own words) who has been actually discussing the topic at hand. You've also been needing extremely obvious and simple things explained to you ad nauseam, suggesting that you're not actually following the story / topic, but are rather just here to be contrarian.

If you really love Musk, great. No one cares. Excuse his vile behavior and blunders all you want, ignore the realities of the deteriorating conditions with Twitter all you want, downplay every rapidly arriving twist and turn in this catasprophe all you want. Again, no one cares. But it is deeply, deeply ironic that you suggest the rest of us should be on resetera when you're behaving precisely like their most notorious users - lashing out at anyone you disagree with, choosing emotion over logic, and suggesting that they should remove themselves from the discussion or be removed. It's truly embarrassing man.

You are overplaying what I said. I don't want to "remove" anyone. I am not saying that he is in the right, I am saying the backlash is more extreme due to his stature than what it normally would be, and people are playing into it.

 

[HoodWinked]

Carmack about to get canceled next.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Once again, flight manifests are not public information. Elon Musk should be afforded the very same anonymity as you or I when boarding a plane. It's just easier to receive said information since these wealthy people own their own planes more often than not.

It's some stalker ass shit no matter how you cut it.

It’s public information… at that point it’s free game.

 

[YCoCg]

You are overplaying what I said. I don't want to "remove" anyone. I am not saying that he is in the right, I am saying the backlash is more extreme due to his stature than what it normally would be, and people are playing into it.

I think it's your avatar, seeing your posts always comes across as angry and seeing as most of your posts in this thread are defending Elon it's sort of making you look like the crazed fanboy. Just my view as a casual reader though.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Pretty damned savage.

REPORT: Elon Musk Fired Twitter Managers After Asking Them To Unknowingly Recommend Their Own Replacements

Elon Musk asked Twitter managers to curate a list of their best subordinates, according to a report.

dailycaller.com

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Pretty damned savage.

REPORT: Elon Musk Fired Twitter Managers After Asking Them To Unknowingly Recommend Their Own Replacements

Elon Musk asked Twitter managers to curate a list of their best subordinates, according to a report.

dailycaller.com

Yeah, saw that.

This seems a knee jerk reaction to something. Replacing every manager at once means there’s no one the new managers can rely on for mentorship. Not can they be trained by the previous managers before passing the torch.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yeah, saw that.

This seems a knee jerk reaction to something. Replacing every manager at once means there’s no one the new managers can rely on for mentorship. Not can they be trained by the previous managers before passing the torch.

They'll be okay. The corpo world fakes it to make it often anyhow.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

They'll be okay. The corpo world fakes it to make it often anyhow.

All that’s left at Twitter is technical personnel for the most part. But whatever, a lot of posters here have been hand waving away every bad move and meanwhile the Twitter user experience keeps degrading.

 

[DeepEnigma]

All that’s left at Twitter is technical personnel for the most part. But whatever, a lot of posters here have been hand waving away every bad move and meanwhile the Twitter user experience keeps degrading.

What's degrading about it? I see no change in it other than no election time ban curations.

 

[Ishma3L]

Yeah, saw that.

This seems a knee jerk reaction to something. Replacing every manager at once means there’s no one the new managers can rely on for mentorship. Not can they be trained by the previous managers before passing the torch.

I don't think he wants old managers passing anything on. Technically, operationally, or culturally.

 

[Raistandantulus]

If "we're censoring, but we're doing it for the good of society" is the argument, then you're not really talking about anything any different than any government that censors citizens for not agreeing with the official policy of the government. That's authoritarianism, and there's no misconception about it. It's all done "for the good of society." But if I've misinterpreted your argument, please let me know.



If subjective means not settled, then yes, and I'm guessing it is to you as well. Science should never be settled to a degree where continuing to research is discouraged, and opposing viewpoints on a situation are not allowed, especially during something as uncertain as a global pandemic.

As a quick example, do you believe gender dysphoria should be classified as a disorder and treated like it was 30 years ago? If not, you probably agree with me that science is not fully settled, and that the scientific method should be continually used to reevaluate what we believe to be true. And that certainly doesn't include the government pressuring social media to silence everyone who disagrees with them. That would be the opposite of the scientific method.

The directive itself was very specific to that situation's crisis and the only example of going to that limit.

It may not have been citizens of the country, that's an assumption to support your authoritarian persecution fantasy. There was nothing shown of when or how it was applied. It may have been to weigh as a contributing factor for actioning.

It's no secret that hostile governments were trying to undermine the Western response to covid. That something was done in cooperation with social media companies and gov was reasonably expected. That it was only specifically about that specific situation you don't seem to comprehend in your insistence that it extends beyond that without any evidence at all to justify it beyond Chicken Littling. But, yes, it could be abused and people that don't go Chicken Little can also be aware of that and look at the evidence. Which is why there is oversight and reviews. That is why I like these twitter files. They show the general restraint of the government and ethical intention in this situation.

As a quick example, do you believe gender dysphoria should be classified as a disorder and treated like it was 30 years ago? If not, you probably agree with me that science is not fully settled, and that the scientific method should be continually used to reevaluate what we believe to be true. And that certainly doesn't include the government pressuring social media to silence everyone who disagrees with them. That would be the opposite of the scientific method.

Science isn't peer reviewed on twitter by the unqualified. It's only one of many means to disseminate. There is no widespread pressure from the current US government to silence everyone who disagrees with them.

 

[DeafTourette]

You are overplaying what I said. I don't want to "remove" anyone. I am not saying that he is in the right, I am saying the backlash is more extreme due to his stature than what it normally would be, and people are playing into it.

Dude... It was explained Multiple times that it wasn't a "mistake" with the employee with MD... He's shown he's a toxic boss and opened himself up for a lawsuit because he was reckless and disrespected someone who exhausted his options to get answers and asked him PROFESSIONALLY AND POLITELY. And KEPT doing it until he was told who he was disrespecting and how it would cost him money for doing what he did. His apology was FORCED because he doesn't know how to be a good boss nor leader!

 

[Bragr]

Dude... It was explained Multiple times that it wasn't a "mistake" with the employee with MD... He's shown he's a toxic boss and opened himself up for a lawsuit because he was reckless and disrespected someone who exhausted his options to get answers and asked him PROFESSIONALLY AND POLITELY. And KEPT doing it until he was told who he was disrespecting and how it would cost him money for doing what he did. His apology was FORCED because he doesn't know how to be a good boss nor leader!

That depends on what you are looking for in a leader and how seriously you view his Twitter antics. He is not exactly a small achiever.

 

[BadBurger]

Taibbi is still doing the whole Twitter Files sham? He must be the last person on earth who still thinks anyone is bothering with that "journalism". He's turning into the living embodiment of the conspiracy nut from movies who lives in a trailer out in the valley, using pirate radio to broadcast his madness into the void.

 

[DeafTourette]

That depends on what you are looking for in a leader and how seriously you view his Twitter antics. He is not exactly a small achiever.

I'm not debating his business practices and how he's made his money.

A LEADER, an effective one, is someone who doesn't treat his subordinates like lackeys or subhumans... He treats them with respect and treats them well... Listens and is loyal to them ... Even if he has to let some go, he does so with respect. Not apathy or disrespect. And you lead them to victory or success.

That's how you build loyalty from your employees or subordinates. Because they'll then do their BEST to make you proud. Musk hadn't demonstrated ANY of that... He's facing or has faced lawsuits from employees of, or directed to from BOTH the Trump and Biden admins, SpaceX and Tesla ... He's a jerk who got lucky and inherited his initial wealth.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Taibbi is still doing the whole Twitter Files sham? He must be the last person on earth who still thinks anyone is bothering with that "journalism". He's turning into the living embodiment of the conspiracy nut from movies who lives in a trailer out in the valley, using pirate radio to broadcast his madness into the void.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Taibbi is still doing the whole Twitter Files sham? He must be the last person on earth who still thinks anyone is bothering with that "journalism". He's turning into the living embodiment of the conspiracy nut from movies who lives in a trailer out in the valley, using pirate radio to broadcast his madness into the void.

As Taibbi correctly states in the video clip above before listing several leftest twitter users who were banned due to government intervention, this isn't a left vs right issue. You should really try to get out of your bubble a bit more, if you believe almost no one cares about the censorship being examined in the twitter files. Here's a progressive liberal and a libertarian on the matter, both of which actually defend twitter a fair bit for their actions and reserve their strongest criticism for the government. And if you can stop seeing things in terms of red vs blue / us vs them, you'll find loads of independent people who are also critical of this sort of government intervention when it comes to free speech.

 

[DeafTourette]

Taibbi knows he didn't get all of the files from Twitter but from what he WAS given, what he reported is factual. Lots of progressives and SOME liberals were banned or shadow banned from Twitter... But he can't report on that because he wasn't given those files. He reported that he asked for more but they didn't reply back. And you KNOW they won't give him those. He can only report on what he's read.

 

[BadBurger]

Taibbi knows he didn't get all of the files from Twitter but from what he WAS given, what he reported is factual. Lots of progressives and SOME liberals were banned or shadow banned from Twitter... But he can't report on that because he wasn't given those files. He reported that he asked for more but they didn't reply back. And you KNOW they won't give him those. He can only report on what he's read.

Yea, that's why most people stopped caring about it almost immediately after it dropped. It's clearly cherry picked information meant to paint a certain picture. It's so lazily transparent it's insulting.

 

[Bragr]

I'm not debating his business practices and how he's made his money.

A LEADER, an effective one, is someone who doesn't treat his subordinates like lackeys or subhumans... He treats them with respect and treats them well... Listens and is loyal to them ... Even if he has to let some go, he does so with respect. Not apathy or disrespect. And you lead them to victory or success.

That's how you build loyalty from your employees or subordinates. Because they'll then do their BEST to make you proud. Musk hadn't demonstrated ANY of that... He's facing or has faced lawsuits from employees of, or directed to from BOTH the Trump and Biden admins, SpaceX and Tesla ... He's a jerk who got lucky and inherited his initial wealth.

He employs thousands. I don't think you, me, or anyone here can judge whether he makes people feel proud or not.

He might be a jerk, but whether he inherited anything means nothing. He went far with what he got and we need more excentric rich people who start up big projects.

 

[BadBurger]

Twitter’s $42,000-per-Month API Prices Out Nearly Everyone

Tiers will start at $500,000 a year for access to 0.3 percent of the company’s tweets. Researchers say that’s too much for too little data.

www.wired.com

Blackburn, however, says researchers will continue to find a way to scrutinize what’s happening on Twitter. “We’ve been mostly cut off from Facebook for years and we’ve continued to make progress,” he says. “It’s not like science is going to be held hostage by a guy that played himself into burning $44 billion on a website that makes no money, just so he could force all its users to read his shitposts.”

 

[LegendOfKage]

Taibbi knows he didn't get all of the files from Twitter but from what he WAS given, what he reported is factual. Lots of progressives and SOME liberals were banned or shadow banned from Twitter... But he can't report on that because he wasn't given those files. He reported that he asked for more but they didn't reply back. And you KNOW they won't give him those. He can only report on what he's read.

Do you know of an interview where Taibbi says he was given pre-filtered material? Because that seems to be what you're suggesting, and it directly contradicts what other reporters with access to the files have claimed. The only "maybe we're not getting everything" comments I've heard come from the fact that, at first, the files all seemed to be going through a former government official. That's probably not someone you want to be in charge of giving you the files that you want to use to criticize government involvement. But even though that was the case, they still found plenty to criticize.

To paraphrase the second journalist, "we had an engineer with us in the room helping us search twitter's actual files, and we were watching him do it, so it's hard to imagine how that could have been filtered."




I timestamped the clip in question, but right before this he talks about not being picked by Musk to have access to the files, and Musk not even knowing who he was.

 

[DeafTourette]

Do you know of an interview where Taibbi says he was given pre-filtered material? Because that seems to be what you're suggesting, and it directly contradicts what other reporters with access to the files have claimed. The only "maybe we're not getting everything" comments I've heard come from the fact that, at first, the files all seemed to be going through a former government official. That's probably not someone you want to be in charge of giving you the files that you want to use to criticize government involvement. But even though that was the case, they still found plenty to criticize.

To paraphrase the second journalist, "we had an engineer with us in the room helping us search twitter's actual files, and we were watching him do it, so it's hard to imagine how that could have been filtered."




I timestamped the clip in question, but right before this he talks about not being picked by Musk to have access to the files, and Musk not even knowing who he was.

It was on The Hill that I heard it ... It was a tweet from Taibbi... I'll find it sooner or later. But he said that he knows he didn't get everything because he asked and didn't get a response .. something like that.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm not debating his business practices and how he's made his money.

A LEADER, an effective one, is someone who doesn't treat his subordinates like lackeys or subhumans... He treats them with respect and treats them well... Listens and is loyal to them ... Even if he has to let some go, he does so with respect. Not apathy or disrespect. And you lead them to victory or success.

That's how you build loyalty from your employees or subordinates. Because they'll then do their BEST to make you proud. Musk hadn't demonstrated ANY of that... He's facing or has faced lawsuits from employees of, or directed to from BOTH the Trump and Biden admins, SpaceX and Tesla ... He's a jerk who got lucky and inherited his initial wealth.

Lucky? Jerk or not… PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink…

He is undoubtedly a jerk sometimes (often), but attributing all of that to luck is more envy or resentment someone you do not like is succeeding than anything.

Despite him having handled the Twitter layoffs very poorly, there is more than a hint of him getting Twitter being bad as that social platform was used as a cannon more than once to try to destroy people online (plus a convenient eco chamber at times). Controlling info is the name of the game.

 

[Toons]

Elon stans just completely baffle me, I tell ya.

 

[DeafTourette]

Lucky? Jerk or not… PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, Starlink…

He is undoubtedly a jerk sometimes (often), but attributing all of that to luck is more envy or resentment someone you do not like is succeeding than anything.

Despite him having handled the Twitter layoffs very poorly, there is more than a hint of him getting Twitter being bad as that social platform was used as a cannon more than once to try to destroy people online (plus a convenient eco chamber at times). Controlling info is the name of the game.

I don't hate the dude. I find him uncouth.

I'm obviously not a business owner but my bosses are genuinely nice people and try to get to know us as employees. My ex CEO and publisher did the same when I was a deputy editor. They treat us with respect and for those of us let go, they try to lessen the blow. We had plant manager once who was kind of a jerk to many of the workers... He was effective but a jerk. Our VP let HIM go because he decreased morale and rubbed folks the wrong way ... Yelled, belittled, etc. Nothing illegal but ... Anyway... He was let go.

My previous and current bosses are the bar I measure by and Elon falls SHORT!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Elon stans just completely baffle me, I tell ya.

Especially the ones that once stan'ed for him prior to selective ideological mental gymnastics people go through.