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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter AfricanKing
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The Pleasure
Member
Ionian
Member
The policy of appeasement. Silly Hitler, you can have what you grabbed but just promise you don't do it again.
He promised he wouldn't. Signed treaties and then went LOL, FU!
All while countries fell over themselves in a fake peace. He was so close as well in world domination that it's quite remarkable.
As they say history is destined to repeat itself. Even if he withdraws the seed has been sown and we're heading for a massive economic crash in Europe. And that isn't hyperbole, governments are already openly trying to tackle mass inflation on food and rents. It's bloody chaos. Just look at rents for a bedsit in most countries. A bedshit is a room with a bed and a separate toilet. Always laugh when they are classed as apartments.
Raven117
Member
Sadly, I think you are right, but for the the last sentence. Not only does the US need to invest in itself, it needs to invest in its allies and in democracy. But the unforced errors...man, dead on with that.
Raven117
Member
Well, they may need to. They made a very risky deal with Russia....As always, the world can find another solution.
That said, I am very much aware of the point you are making.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Yes. Imagine losing that lost land, that alone tip’d the scales in Putin’s brain. Getting Ukraine can help regain lost gloryIsn't that the Soviet Union and Russia is just number 11?
MightySquirrel
Banned
Question: How do you help a country which is witnessing a preparation for a full scale invasion taking place for months just mere meters across the border and does zero preperation itself to defend themselves?
I just googled and Ukraine apparently has the largest army in EU???
"The current size of Ukraine's armed forces, which consists of 250,000 (215,000 military personnel), is the largest in Europe, and second in the region after the Russian Armed Forces."
Yet here we are Russian armed forces moving in freely totally unimpeded seeing no resistance whatsoever...... How do you help someone like that?
I just googled and Ukraine apparently has the largest army in EU???
"The current size of Ukraine's armed forces, which consists of 250,000 (215,000 military personnel), is the largest in Europe, and second in the region after the Russian Armed Forces."
Yet here we are Russian armed forces moving in freely totally unimpeded seeing no resistance whatsoever...... How do you help someone like that?
German Hops
Member
Tactical nukes.
miles118
Member
How you say they made no preparations ? XD Have you not been following the news ?
xellos2099alpha
Member
I was wondering about Zelpa. She mention she might need to get out a few weeks agob during a interview
IDKFA
Member
What else can be done beside sanctions?
MightySquirrel
Banned
Smart.
Pagusas
Elden Member
Move troops in and put up blockades on the border, forcing Russia to have to engage in a fight to take the land, with the hope that they wouldn't dare fire on an international coalition.
miles118
Member
This is what Russians troops are like compared to Ukraine. Ukraine has no chance at all unless they use tricks. They can't win by force.
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Its not about having "balls" to do anything. Its about being smart enough to know better. NATO and the EU knows what will happen if any direct military force from the west is used against Russian forces. It will be a wide reaching war involving most of the nuclear armed nations in the world. And even if nuclear weapons weren't used the casualty numbers would be staggering. The economic damage would be even worse. It would financially and emotionally cripple the developed world for at least a decade.
And as shitty as it is to say NATO and the EU are not going to get into a clusterfuck like that over just Ukraine. Especially considering the fact that they are not even a NATO member. It falls outside of their jurisdiction.
The best that can be hoped for is that Ukraine puts up enough of a fight to make it not worth it to Putin or that Putin is ousted from within. There are already grumblings that some Russian officials and military leaders are not happy with Putin's actions and the damage that those actions are going to do to Russia.
Granted that probably just means that some officials are about to have a tragic accident befall them, but it's at least something to think about.
MightySquirrel
Banned
So Ukraine got a HUGE army.
Raistandantulus
Member
With that Orthodox recognition of Ukraine a few years
Russia’s Unfinished Symphony of Church and State | Political Theology Network
As the Orthodox Church resumes its central role in Russian life, Russia’s political and religious leaders engage in theological and pragmatic deliberations about the relationship between church and…
politicaltheology.com
Ukrainian church wins independence battle – DW – 10/11/2018
Ukraine should have its own Orthodox church, independent from Moscow, the Istanbul-based Ecumenical Patriarchate has ruled in a bitter row. Representatives of Russia's Patriarch Kirill slammed the move as "catastrophic."
www.dw.com
Giant new Russian cathedral glorifies Putin and Stalin in mosaics
Crimea annexation also exalted in Moscow church due to open on anniversary of 1945 victory
www.theguardian.com
That last article is like reading Ozymandias.
Gp1
Member
Russia is just testing the waters to see how the Europe/US reacts without compromising to a full blown all out war against Ukraine.
They want to project power, not go to war.
Russia take two steps forward, the West gives a mild reaction, Russia takes one step back and consolidates their positions. "Rinse and Repeat" until exhaustion.
It's textbook negotiations.
They want to project power, not go to war.
Russia take two steps forward, the West gives a mild reaction, Russia takes one step back and consolidates their positions. "Rinse and Repeat" until exhaustion.
It's textbook negotiations.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Realistically? Not much. The various intelligence agencies of NATO can work behind the scenes to provide valuable intel for Ukraine as well as work against Russia's efforts in the region covertly. But beyond that there isn't much else to be done. NATO has already established that it will not act militarily (for obvious reasons) in the matter and no individual nation besides the US and maybe China are the equal of Russia militarily. The US is unlikely to act without having some kind of support NATO. So no one besides Ukraine is going to directly fight Russia.
Though the sanctions can do a great deal of damage of they are severe enough. Germany has already halted plans for their Nordstream2 pipeline and if I remember correctly that was a personal pet project of Putin. So that is a direct blow to Putin and his ego as well as his economy.
And Russia can't use all of its army to attack, but Ukraine can use all of theirs to defend
IDKFA
Member
They would. Also, remember doing this would be an act of war and the west wouldn't just be against Russia but also every member state of the CSTO. That move would absolutely lead to all out war.
Mistake
Member
The situation is a lot more complicated than western media portrays it to be. You’d think Russia is doing this for fun. It’s hard to say what can be done, because Ukraine itself is extremely divided on this. I’ve spoken with some Ukrainians during the crimea conflict, and they sounded exactly like two different groups stuck in their own bubble. For and against. I spoke to a Russian friend of mine about the situation yesterday, here is what he said
Airbus Jr
Litigate my emotions, daddy!
Then those who aspire to be russian can go to russia and those who wants to be ukraine should stay in their country
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Ah yes, the ‘we are only protecting Russian people’ argument that Russia used to justify any aggression in the last 150 years.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
The people of Ukraine have the opportunity to go to Russia if that's what they want. Its not exactly far. Their frustration and the fact they speak Russian does not give Russia the right to do any of this.
ForAcademicPurposes
Member
Evening lads, had Putin killed us yet?
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
And Russia is not the only country in the last 100 years to use that excuse to seize entire sections of countries. Its been one of the go to excuses for dictators making land grabs.
Wildebeest
Member
Why would people in the west care about the low grade state propaganda stories that old people in Russia let themselves believe in? I feel more stupid even just having to pretend they are relevant.
I volunteer to host de vimen! (unsure of Ukrainian accent)
Ukraine’s neighbours bracing for millions of refugees if Russia invades
Poland, Romania and Slovakia make plans, as Poland criticised over unequal treatment of asylum seekers
Ukrainians can come to America we need workers !
Mistake
Member
Because the west is just as bad on how much it’s salivating over a new war. It’s obvious. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle
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Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Salivating? They have been doing every they can to avoid it. If they actually wanted a war they would have sent troops to Ukraine instead of weapons and they would be lobbing missiles instead sanctions.
The idea that the US or it's allies are wanting a war with Russia is ridiculous.
chromhound
Member
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
The funny thing is that China is stuck between a rock and a hard place on this issue because of Taiwan. They could support Russia and it's propaganda about reclaiming lost territories or whatever nonsense Putin is trying to push as a way to support their own perceived ownership of Taiwan.
However this would mean acknowledging that sections of a country have a right to declare independence and seek protection from foreign governments. This is the exact OPPOSITE message they want to for Taiwan though.
The thought has crossed my mind that in the US we should be checking to see who has been investing in defense industries recently. But other than that vague question, it sure doesn't look like the West wants a war. Rather, it looks like the West has been giving Putin the greenlight for years. Whether turning a blind eye to Crimea, spreading Russian disinformation to sew internal discord in the West, or making Russia's position in the energy sector stronger, all actions lead to Putin getting his way. All that said, the last thing we need is a handful of "leaders" deciding they need to save face by starting WW3 when there's nothing to even win for anyone that doesn't have capital to invest in rebuilds. They will be the only victors in that fight.
Amiga
Member
Kind of what just happened. Though they literally took everything with them. Including the geography.
MightySquirrel
Banned
You can sense the fear from his confusion. Man almost forgot own language and managed to spill the secret in the process. Poor guy goes to gulag prob.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Nah. Putin is crazy but even he isn't that crazy. The only reason he is doing this is because Ukraine is not part of NATO and he know they won't go to bat against Russia over Ukraine.
They absolutely would go to bat over Poland though and nobody (not even Putin) wants a war like that. The gains would not justify the staggering losses.
Ionian
Member
This is exactly what I thought first. Asked someone I know in Poland how it is being reported and apparently it's badly reported and played down.
Then again the Ukraine played it down and said nothing to worry about and yet this is happening.
The US historically tends to get involved after the fact. Many don't want them involved at all. Could have stopped WW2 early on yet nuked cities at the end. A war crime that is unimaginable. Civilians decimated as a show of strength. By a person who fled the country but managed to crack an atom.
I'm not against the US but they do tend to come in, destroy places and just pull out leaving the mess for the locals. Maybe NATO can sort this out? Not a hope in hell. At the sake of sounding like a conspiracy looney, all of this is postering for Putin and shit just got real.
IDKFA
Member
The situation isn't as black and white as some believe.
Out of curiosity, I switched on RT news yesterday. If you only watched RT news, you'd think that Russia was the good guy in all this. They showed Ukrainian refugees fleeing into Russia. People of the Donbas region celebrating the announcement by Putin by letting off fireworks and flying Russian flags. Interviews with people in the region who believe this announcement will be peace to the region.
Switch back to Sky News and Russia is the bad guy. The aggressor who has invaded Ukraine and used dangerous rhetoric to justify his invasion, or how he wants to recreate the Russian Empire.
Now, I know RT is pretty much Russian propaganda. Putin could kill puppies and they'd spin that into a positive. However, it was certainly interesting to see how different the news is on either side and made me question what's real and what's not.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Grab a hybrid. They're nice.
But like you said RT is literally just Russian propaganda. So you know that you can safely ignore basically anything that they have to say. Their job is to just take the Russian propaganda that is dished out on Russian State TV and put it into English.
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LordCBH
Member
I’ve wanted one forever. Just can’t afford one at the moment….
Hari Seldon
Member
Poland would kick Russia's ass even without US help lmao. They are nothing like the Ukraine. They are well trained, well equipped, well led, and have a far larger reserve force than Ukraine. In fact, Poland could kick Germany's ass as well and it would be like a reverse WW2.
Amiga
Member
If there is a next it's the Baltics, Caucasus or Central Asia.. If Ukraine is done.
Airbus Jr
Litigate my emotions, daddy!
Not alone they cant
Look at poland global military firepower its nothing compared to russia
They gona need nato help