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[Sho_Nuff82]

Why don't YOU speak for yourself? Because you're not listening to what's being said. You are the miniscule minority. You're the one trying to make your problems with the game as the "major reason" why the game didn't do well.

A linear game has a lot more attention to detail and is more focused. And while immersion is subjective, I don't understand why its hard for you to see that people are usually more immersed when there's a directed experience. The bigger the game...the easier to see its flaws and realize that its just a a game.

And again I pose to you, how many linear, single player experiences this generation have sold substantially better than Uncharted, on PS3 or 360?

GTA (even though the multiplayer community is quite strong) - open world
Assassin's Creed 1/2 - Open world
Bioshock - Open World
Fable 2 - Open world
Mass Effect - Open World
Batman - Open World

Games like Uncharted and TFU are the exception. So I reiterate, unless your game has 30+ hours of SP content or an attention-grabbing online mode, expecting a massive debut on either console is unrealistic. There's simply no consistent precedent for a game like Uncharted selling beyond what it did on a single HD console.

 

[Fularu]

I think there's a incongruence between what AniHawk said and "harmonix friend" said.


According to this guy, though, Wii had 40% of the sales. (5 / (5+4+2.5+1))

I guess we can only do so much with vague inequalities.

If you exclude the DS then it's about 60% (5/8.5)

 

[Rhindle]

...the sales of uncharted 1 were terrible for how good of a game it was, and the idea that they were just going to say "fuckit, we'll just sell to people who played UC1 and call it a day" is really ridiculous.

Also, the idea that ads don't matter is funny.

I didn't say ads don't matter - I said ads don't matter as much for a sequel. And therefore grasping at "bad ads" as an excuse for UC2's sales is a cop out. The main reason UC2 didn't sell phenomenally well was the same reason that UC1 didn't sell phenomenally well. People know what they're getting with UC, and don't find it as compelling as you evidently do.

I think the series actually sells pretty well for what it is.

 

[chris0701]

Killzone 2
Feb NPD: 323K
Mar NPD: 296K

Overall: 620k (33 days)

Uncharted 2
Oct NPD:537K
Nov NPD:113K

Overall:650k(45 days?)

We know UC 2 had wonderful timing for its sales. Slim + 299 USD price.
But we see this awful story of sales.

 

[WasteLand Soldier]

Killzone 2
Feb NPD: 323K
Mar NPD: 296K

Overall: 620k (33 days)

Uncharted 2
Oct NPD:537K
Nov NPD:113K

Overall:650k(45 days?)

We know UC 2 had wonderful timing for its sales. Slim + 299 USD price.
But we see this awful story of sales.

wow sucks when you look at it that way. i for one have my copy.

 

[LaneDS]

And again I pose to you, how many linear, single player experiences this generation have sold substantially better than Uncharted, on PS3 or 360?

GTA (even though the multiplayer community is quite strong) - open world
Assassin's Creed 1/2 - Open world
Bioshock - Open World
Fable 2 - Open world
Mass Effect - Open World
Batman - Open World

Games like Uncharted and TFU are the exception. So I reiterate, unless your game has 30+ hours of SP content or an attention-grabbing online mode, expecting a massive debut on either console is unrealistic. There's simply no consistent precedent for a game like Uncharted selling beyond what it did on a single HD console.

I don't think Bioshock, Batman, or even Mass Effect are open world titles. Sure, you get a few choices where to go, but at least with the first two they're pretty linear titles in my opinion.

 

[imtehman]

I didn't say ads don't matter - I said ads don't matter as much for a sequel. And therefore grasping at "bad ads" as an excuse for UC2's sales is a cop out. The main reason UC2 didn't sell phenomenally well was the same reason that UC1 didn't sell phenomenally well. People know what they're getting with UC, and don't find it as compelling as you evidently do.

I think the series actually sells pretty well for what it is.

This is probably the case.

I wonder how many people that played UC1 bought UC2? Doesn't seem like as much as it should.

Also, how many people are waiting for UC2 to drop or rented the game since UC2 is, for all intents and purposes, a single player experience

 

[Version 3.0]

Wow, when it comes to Uncharted, the stupid statements never seem to stop.

If people played it...they'd like it. End of story.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.


I played and liked Uncharted (although with some gripes), but my nephew hated it. It's pretty naive to think that "people" have the same taste as you.

 

[Kolgar]

Why don't YOU speak for yourself? Because you're not listening to what's being said. You are the miniscule minority. You're the one trying to make your problems with the game as the "major reason" why the game didn't do well.

A linear game has a lot more attention to detail and is more focused. And while immersion is subjective, I don't understand why its hard for you to see that people are usually more immersed when there's a directed experience. The bigger the game...the easier to see its flaws and realize that its just a a game.

To quote your own words, "You're not listening to what's being said."

I'm not the one with an unconditional boner for the game. I've pointed out several possible reasons the game hasn't performed well, including: uninspired name, linear single-player gameplay, the fact that it's an exclusive game on a third-place console in a world dominated by military and space shooters, and "Tomb-Raider-with-a-dude" syndrome.

Given the underwhelming sales for the game, perhaps the math proves that I am NOT in the minority?

Anyway, these are just my opinions, posted for fun as I procrastinate from work; I don't care if you subscribe to them or not.

As for the game itself, maybe it's just not quite as fuck-awesome as you think it is. Which is fine; to each his own.

 

[kswiston]

Uncharted 2 will do better in December.

Last year, LittleBigPlanet sold 215k in October, 141k in November, and 255k in December. Uncharted 1 went from 113k in November to 206k in December 2007. However it came out on Nov 20th, making the comparison less useful.

With no notable December releases, new PS3 console sales of at least 1M for the month (maybe 1.25M), and more software money to go around, I don't think 200k+ for Uncharted 2 next month is unreasonable. After that it will be a slow crawl to 1M.

 

[Karma]

Killzone 2
Feb NPD: 323K
Mar NPD: 296K

Overall: 620k (33 days)

Uncharted 2
Oct NPD:537K
Nov NPD:113K

Overall:650k(45 days?)

We know UC 2 had wonderful timing for its sales. Slim + 299 USD price.
But we see this awful story of sales.

Where is this number from?

 

[Psychotext]

I remember this list from the June 2008 NPD thread and I'm sure there are way more past this but as of 6/08 the current first months were:

I posted an updated version in this thread, here you go: http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=18835646&postcount=1203

 

[LCfiner]

Uncharted 2 will do better in December.

Last year, LittleBigPlanet sold 215k in October, 141k in November, and 255k in December. Uncharted 1 went from 113k in November to 206k in December 2007. However it came out on Nov 20th, making the comparison less useful.

With no notable December releases, new PS3 console sales of at least 1M for the month (maybe 1.25M), and more software money to go around, I don't think 200k+ for Uncharted 2 next month is unreasonable. After that it will be a slow crawl to 1M.

MW 2 will still sell a shitload next month. that’s what new PS3 owners will buy instead of Uncharted 2.

 

[DR2K]

Killzone 2
Feb NPD: 323K
Mar NPD: 296K

Overall: 620k (33 days)

Uncharted 2
Oct NPD:537K
Nov NPD:113K

Overall:650k(45 days?)

We know UC 2 had wonderful timing for its sales. Slim + 299 USD price.
But we see this awful story of sales.

MW2 played a factor into U2 sales no doubt. You honestly think KZ2 numbers would be that big if it released close to MW2?

 

[kswiston]

MW 2 will still sell a shitload next month. that’s what new PS3 owners will buy instead of Uncharted 2.

MW2 is not a December release.

While I expect the drop to be pretty good, MW2 will sell less in December than it did in November. Maybe much less, maybe only a couple hundred thousand less, but it will drop.

On the other hand, PS3 sales should increase by at least 1.5x the November numbers.

More consoles sold + the same or less people buying MW2 and Assassin's Creed 2 + More money being spent on software in general + no big new releases to eat up that money = more games sales spread around the other existing PS3 titles.

Last year, total software sales in November were $1.45 billion. In December 2008 they were $2.75 billion. December is twice as big a month as November. Sure, that increase is skewed towards Nintendo systems, but PS3 software sales will get a nice boost as well.

 

[imtehman]

MW2 played a factor into U2 sales no doubt. You honestly think KZ2 numbers would be that big if it released close to MW2?

i would say yes.

the same people that bought KZ2 are the same people who bought UC2.

 

[jamesinclair]

Well, if that (and the 83k total figure posted earlier in the thread) is true:

Wii – 33,200
DS – 26,500
360 – 16,600
PS3 – 6,640

Oh boy. :lol

According to my friend.....this is wrong.

The 83k figure does NOT include the DS. So all these values are a bit higher.

 

[LCfiner]

MW2 is not a December release.

While I expect the drop to be pretty good, MW2 will sell less in December than it did in November. Maybe much less, maybe only a couple hundred thousand less, but it will drop.

On the other hand, PS3 sales should increase by at least 1.5x the November numbers.

More consoles sold + the same or less people buying MW2 and Assassin's Creed 2 + More money being spent on software in general + no big new releases to eat up that money = more games sales spread around the other existing PS3 titles.

Last year, total software sales in November were $1.45 billion. In December 2008 they were $2.75 billion. December is twice as big a month as November. Sure, that increase is skewed towards Nintendo systems, but PS3 software sales will get a nice boost as well.

All I meant to say is that December UC2 numbers will be poor and December MW2 numbers will not. MW2 will suffocate UC2. as you said, there are no December releases. New PS3 buyers are gonna buy the hot new game… MW2 (and maybe AC2)

I still expect MW2 for the PS3 to be in the top 5 and UC2 to, maybe, squeeze into the top 20. maybe.

 

[stupei]

Advertising is really not that critical for a sequel. That's why publishers love making sequels - they don't have to spend nearly as much on marketing.

Most people who were candidates to buy UC2 will have played UC1 at some point. They either liked it or didn't like it. Ads aren't going to sway the equation unless they're able to convey new information about the game. There wasn't much new to convey about UC2. It's pretty much the exact same game.

You don't think MW2 demolishing sales records (including those of the previous titles in the series) had anything to do with the ridiculously heavy marketing push it received?

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Im so happy Mario and Luigi Bowsers inside story is doing so well. I was afraid for it, when it first came out.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I posted an updated version in this thread, here you go: http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=18835646&postcount=1203

Missed this the first time, thanks for the repost.

 

[ReyBrujo]

You don't think MW2 demolishing sales records (including those of the previous titles in the series) had anything to do with the ridiculously heavy marketing push it received?

MW2 is a hardcore game. Hardcore games don't need heavy marketing to move. Especially when previous instances have been so successful. Wii Fit needed heavy ad, but MW2 could have done without it. However, I think Activision wanted it to be the biggest opener ever for marketing purposes, which could explain the exaggerated marketing. At least, this is what I think.

 

[Fuzzy]

According to my friend.....this is wrong.

The 83k figure does NOT include the DS. So all these values are a bit higher.

Knowing that the 83K doesn't include the DS number and knowing what was already posted in this thread about the approximate % for the Wii verson* of the 83K and the breakdown of how all the titles sold in comparison to each other then we can work out what those values are.

*It may not be exactly the stated %. AniHawk could have rounded it up or down to 60% but it's not my place to give details of that nature.

 

[elrechazado]

MW2 is a hardcore game. Hardcore games don't need heavy marketing to move. Especially when previous instances have been so successful. Wii Fit needed heavy ad, but MW2 could have done without it. However, I think Activision wanted it to be the biggest opener ever for marketing purposes, which could explain the exaggerated marketing. At least, this is what I think.

I love how there's a magic exception for every game with the marketing does nothing crowd.

 

[LCfiner]

MW2 is a hardcore game. Hardcore games don't need heavy marketing to move. Especially when previous instances have been so successful. Wii Fit needed heavy ad, but MW2 could have done without it. However, I think Activision wanted it to be the biggest opener ever for marketing purposes, which could explain the exaggerated marketing. At least, this is what I think.

heh, this goes back to another thread attempting to describe hardcore.

IMO, MW2 isn’t hardcore. it’s a shooter and it’s got violence but it’s as mass market as you can get.

 

[ReyBrujo]

I love how there's a magic exception for every game with the marketing does nothing crowd.

Now I understand the meaning of your nick. You reject everyone's opinion.

heh, this goes back to another thread attempting to describe hardcore.

IMO, MW2 isn’t hardcore. it’s a shooter and it’s got violence but it’s as mass market as you can get.

I doubt that, but this is not the right thread to discuss this.

 

[D4Danger]

MW2 is a hardcore game. Hardcore games don't need heavy marketing to move. Especially when previous instances have been so successful. Wii Fit needed heavy ad, but MW2 could have done without it. However, I think Activision wanted it to be the biggest opener ever for marketing purposes, which could explain the exaggerated marketing. At least, this is what I think.

I disagree.

 

[elrechazado]

Now I understand the meaning of your nick. You reject everyone's opinion.

Just the poorly constructed ones.

 

[Jonsoncao]

Where is this number from?

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-...er~y2009m12d11-Sonys-firstparty-woes-continue

 

[AdventureRacing]

MW2 is not hardcore. It is deliberately built for casuals and that's why it is selling so well.

 

[stupei]

I doubt that, but this is not the right thread to discuss this.

Can you describe what makes MW2 so much more hardcore than UC2?

 

[Arhal_Katarn]

MW2 is not hardcore. It may be a "core" genre but it not a hardcore game at all. Its the most noob friendly fps there is.

 

[ReyBrujo]

MW2 is not hardcore. It may be a "core" genre but it not a hardcore game at all. Its the most noob friendly fps there is.

Just because a .22 pistol is the easiest to maneuver doesn't mean anyone without training can use it ;-) Anyways, already sent my rationale to stupei, not going to derail this thread anymore. Sorry about that.

 

[Sean]

Beyond that... To me, Uncharted 2 too often feels claustrophobic. I feel more like I'm playing a rigidly scripted interactive movie than being totally immersed in the game world. This more than anything is likely the reason the series hasn't found the success some believe it should.

This same exact sentence can be used to describe Modern Warfare 2 (a tightly-scripted linear cinematic experience) and that game sold nearly 2 million copies on PS3 in 19 days.

I think it's not being known for multiplayer in general. Games like MW2 and Halo are an excellent value because of their longevity. As much as it pains me to say it with U2 (my GOTY) you can get by with renting it.

But Naughty Dog released both a multiplayer beta and a multiplayer demo, which Sony said was "on a trajectory to become the most downloaded demo on PSN, ever." People were certainly aware of UC2 having multiplayer. Maybe they didn't like the MP, but according to Sony's own statistics a lot of people tried it at least.

 

[stupei]

Just because a .22 pistol is the easiest to maneuver doesn't mean anyone without training can use it ;-) Anyways, already sent my rationale to stupei, not going to derail this thread anymore. Sorry about that.

What you don't understand is that just because a game is targeted to a general mainstream casual audience, that does not make everyone who plays it transforms into a casual gamer. You can be hardcore and intense about a game that is, in its design, fairly casual. Being casual also doesn't make a game that you enjoy bad. It makes it very, very marketable. Your suggestion that MW2 did not need to be marketed because it was hardcore is confusing because it is the fact that MW2 is so casual and so accessible that makes it ridiculously easy to market. Its appeal is immediately apparent, but that still didn't stop them from pouring a lot of effort and money into advertising.

My argument was that MW2's sales would have always been great, but that they were only as staggering as they are because of the strength of the marketing push. Obviously UC2 was never going to be a crazy success, but I do sincerely believe it would have been better served by a real marketing campaign that highlighted the game's strengths and actually focused on it as a game, not just a small part of the overall PS3 rebranding.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Now we are talking. I never said MW2 would have sold the same without marketing, I said it didn't need a heavy marketing because it targeted a specific group of people mainly: followers of the series and those who had played the previous iteration. Every game needs a ration of marketing.

In the case of Uncharted 2, I think we agree that whenever Sony launches a marketing campaign on one of its first/second party offers, their message is "the PS3 has this game" instead of "this game with these features for the PS3". In other words, they don't focus in the specific virtues of the game itself and why you should buy it, but in the virtues of the console (these "graphics/sounds/experience, only with the PS3", "this and many more games, only in this console", etc). I haven't seen PS2 ads back in time, but were they like the current ones?

 

[kswiston]

All I meant to say is that December UC2 numbers will be poor and December MW2 numbers will not. MW2 will suffocate UC2. as you said, there are no December releases. New PS3 buyers are gonna buy the hot new game… MW2 (and maybe AC2)

I still expect MW2 for the PS3 to be in the top 5 and UC2 to, maybe, squeeze into the top 20. maybe.

Modern Warfare 2 (PS3) will most definitely be in the top 5 next month (I'd say the top 5 for December will be the two versions of MW2, NSMB Wii, Wii Fit Plus, and Wii Sports Resort).

However, Uncharted 2 could still do better in December (200k+) and at the same time get outsold 5-6x by Modern Warfare 2 (PS3).

Last year, the December top 20 ended at 366k. I doubt that Uncharted 2 even makes the top 30. Luckily, there is room for a lot of games to sell well in December.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

But Naughty Dog released both a multiplayer beta and a multiplayer demo, which Sony said was "on a trajectory to become the most downloaded demo on PSN, ever." People were certainly aware of UC2 having multiplayer. Maybe they didn't like the MP, but according to Sony's own statistics a lot of people tried it at least.

Wait... was a single player demo for Uncharted 2 ever available?

 

[expy]

Wait... was a single player demo for Uncharted 2 ever available?

No.

 

[Ninja_Hawk]

Wait... was a single player demo for Uncharted 2 ever available?

beaten, but you get it.

 

[donny2112]

I think it's going to come out of the gate with something nuts like 4 million in sales in the November NPD between PS3/360,

No chance. Literally no chance. 3 million maybe.

Launch November NPD numbers:
360 MW1 - 1.57m
360 WaW - 1.41m

PS3 MW1 - 444K
PS3 WaW - 597K

360 MW2? Yeah, maybe it has a chance at 2m for the month, but I'd expect something a little under 2m for November. PS3 MW2? No chance at all of 2m. Reaching 360 MW1 numbers would be an astounding increase.

From farther down...

Considering the multi-SKU case, 2.5/2.75 seems less unreasonable.
...
Makes more sense when considering the combination of RE/PE/HE SKUs.

I hadn't taken into consideration the multi-SKU release impact on sales. MW2 still blew out my revised thinking (and yours), but I wanted to point out that my first statement was only looking at it as a single SKU.

 

[poppabk]

MW2 is a hardcore game. Hardcore games don't need heavy marketing to move. Especially when previous instances have been so successful. Wii Fit needed heavy ad, but MW2 could have done without it. However, I think Activision wanted it to be the biggest opener ever for marketing purposes, which could explain the exaggerated marketing. At least, this is what I think.

Wow, 'hardcore' gamers are completely disillusion - publishers are wasting 100's of millions of dollars a year on marketing for games that will sell anyway? Guess what - 'hardcore' gamers are not immune to advertising - in fact the fact that these games see huge marketing campaigns suggests that these are the consumers most influenced by marketing.

 

[Mrbob]

I'm starting to wonder if sony shortchanged PS3 120s?

Big mistake for the holidays.

I did a bunch of xmas shopping tonight at a variety of stores. PS3 120gb systems were tough to find, but there were plenty of ps3 250s available. People want to spend 299 sony, not 349.

 

[legend166]

Now I understand the meaning of your nick. You reject everyone's opinion.


I doubt that, but this is not the right thread to discuss this.

You don't think a game that sells 6 million launch month is mainstream?

 

[QuadCore]

Anyone have numbers for DJ Hero November and LTD and also Band Hero?

Thanks!

 

[markatisu]

Anyone have numbers for DJ Hero November and LTD and also Band Hero?

Thanks!

DJ Hero sold 211k across all platforms in Nov (and 114k in Nov) for a LTD of 325k. we only have the breakdown of October.

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/dj-hero-sold-just-123k-units/

Not sure about Band Hero, there was a post a few pages back that showed about where it fell sales wise

 

[ReyBrujo]

Wow, 'hardcore' gamers are completely disillusion - publishers are wasting 100's of millions of dollars a year on marketing for games that will sell anyway? Guess what - 'hardcore' gamers are not immune to advertising - in fact the fact that these games see huge marketing campaigns suggests that these are the consumers most influenced by marketing.

I guess a demo you can play or the review in your favorite gaming site are more valuable than a 30'' announcement on TV for someone who knows what he wants. I remember reading MW2 was having record preorders. Do these come just from people who have seen the ads, or people who have played previous games or that have read the previews?

Maybe I give too much credit to these players?

You don't think a game that sells 6 million launch month is mainstream?

I believe hardcore gamers are more numerous than what we think. The Xbox 360 is entering the mainstream, the PlayStation is still fighting to be recognized as a mainstream unit. If most of the units have been sold to the mainstream, non specialized gamers, then I can't find an explanation about why the industry cares so much about the hardcore players, being them just a fraction of the consoles available.

My original point was that even without such a heavy advertisement, it would have sold probably as good as Halo 3 in the Xbox 360 alone. There were mainstream sales, of course. Every game has them. But I think, in the case of games, the main amount comes after the initial burst of hardcore sales (when John Casual Doe buys the game by recommendation of Bob Casual Jones instead of Louie Fanatic Smith).

 

[Thunder Monkey]

What you don't understand is that just because a game is targeted to a general mainstream casual audience, that does not make everyone who plays it transforms into a casual gamer. You can be hardcore and intense about a game that is, in its design, fairly casual. Being casual also doesn't make a game that you enjoy bad. It makes it very, very marketable. Your suggestion that MW2 did not need to be marketed because it was hardcore is confusing because it is the fact that MW2 is so casual and so accessible that makes it ridiculously easy to market. Its appeal is immediately apparent, but that still didn't stop them from pouring a lot of effort and money into advertising.

My argument was that MW2's sales would have always been great, but that they were only as staggering as they are because of the strength of the marketing push. Obviously UC2 was never going to be a crazy success, but I do sincerely believe it would have been better served by a real marketing campaign that highlighted the game's strengths and actually focused on it as a game, not just a small part of the overall PS3 rebranding.

You don't have to battle so hard my friend.

You are right. CoD took Halo's crown as the most casual FPS series in existence. It will also signal the peak of the genre. I doubt any FPS series ever comes close to CoD ever again. A general downhill trend for the genre will happen, is happening. The sales of the genre will be spread among three or four series, with a few others that pull in respectable numbers. As happens with all console gaming genres.

Few have had the chance to prosper as much as the FPS though. MS made a huge money maker for a select few bringing the genre full bore to consoles.

Not my style, but they have definitely prospered in the last two generations on consoles.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

MW2 is a hardcore game. Hardcore games don't need heavy marketing to move. Especially when previous instances have been so successful. Wii Fit needed heavy ad, but MW2 could have done without it. However, I think Activision wanted it to be the biggest opener ever for marketing purposes, which could explain the exaggerated marketing. At least, this is what I think.

Call of Duty is about the most casual video game franchise there is. It isn't demolishing records because of 'hardcore gamers'; it's demolishing records because 'everyone and his cousin' are running out to buy the game.

 

[Nerevar]

Bioshock - Open World

:lol

have you played Bioshock? The whole point of the game is that it's linear and you don't have a choice! :lol