The juxtaposition always gets me.
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NPD Sales Results for January 2014 [Up3: PS4/XB1 #1/#2 best selling; Poke/SM3DW/ALBW]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
The juxtaposition always gets me.
bishopcruz
Member
Hell that was over two years before I joined, which was right when the crackdown happened. I was always sad I missed those days. I do still wish they would provide numbers for the Top 10 consoles and SKUs though, never understood why they stopped. I figure the granular data is the important stuff.
Aquamarine
Member
Getting data now is like trying to get blood from a stone...a few Top 10 combined software ranges, Wii Fit U, Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition, the major hardware numbers, and that's it...the bare minimum for an NPD thread.
Well at least NPD won't come to GAF with lawsuits in hand...
i missed this thread, but this is even further back, when neogaf was just part of the gaming-age forums
http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/basement/ga-archive/sega-dc-sales-03-04-2003.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF0gsbQKhD8
http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/basement/ga-archive/sega-dc-sales-03-04-2003.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF0gsbQKhD8
bishopcruz
Member
Was always amazed someone didn't try another way. Hell, something like wikileaks. Suppose the risk isn't worth it.
MikeOfTheLivingDead
Grapetastic!
So is it time yet for the chalkboard?
This thread is too long, but if it hasn't happened, should probably cross off the NFL Deal. You couldn't even see the Superbowl on Xbox One and it looks like the NFL has done fuck all for Xbox One so far.
Aquamarine
Member
NPD is very proactive with those kinds of things...they'd probably call the FBI within the hour and immediately seek damages.
I know they are very aware about what goes on at GAF, but they tolerate it to an extent because it's small-scale.
Let's just say there are still ways to track such leaks. They're pretty thorough.
why are you changing hells to hecks and then bolding them?
bishopcruz
Member
Still, I would think at least releasing stuff like the weekly Europe numbers would lessen demand for complete releases like that. Game numbers, serious business.
Holy crap at those numbers, am I reading that right that the Dreamcast sold under 4m in the US? Yowza.
Rather not propagate cussing, and bolding to indicate a change.
dreamcast sold 4.09m units in the us. each one of those units for hardware are separate skus.
from what i recall, the dreamcast sold a metric shitton in november and december 2001. that was when sega discounted the system to $50.
bishopcruz
Member
Yeah, that was the reason I never got a DC back in the day. My group of friends told me not to get one as that was going to be my Christmas present. Of course they all sold out before they got me one.
But still, 4.09 million. Good lord that's sad. And people moan about the WiiU.
SwiftDeath
Member
There will be no official numbers for any console for the month of January unfortunately
We do have the leaks though
well the wii u's at 2.1m and comparatively that's way behind the dreamcast.
the dreamcast actually did pretty well in america until ps2 started eating its lunch, but i think it could have stuck around and done a decent 10-15m here over a full generation. it was sort of reversal of fortune from the saturn, which did a measly 4m across europe and the us combined.
Aquamarine
Member
Oh hell yes...there's a damn good reason why people don't give out precise numbers like "Wii U sold 425,237 units in November," or something like that.
I slip up with that sometimes as well...really need to be very careful to round things to the nearest 1000 every single time.
Giving percentage increases or decreases is the safest way to do it...so there's never any precision involved.
Case in point:
The only "precise" hardware numbers revealed this month were PS4, Xbox One, and Wii U. Everything else was extrapolated from percentage increases or decreases, so they're technically "estimates," but you can assume that they're pretty close to the real thing.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Thanks
Really? Why's that both a bit sad on their sales?
@aquamarine we have precise PS4 XBone numbers?
Open Source
Banned
New hardware launch and sales are down year over year.
You had a nice run, consoles.
You had a nice run, consoles.
theprodigy
Member
SwiftDeath
Member
Sony has never really been one to share numbers and I assume that behavior is left over from the PS3 era. MS has always been ones to share NPD numbers, Nelson even referred to it as their monthly NPD report card but as their numbers were quite bad this month they didn't publicly release them.
Luckily based on the PR MS did give out, numbers for XB1 could be extrapolated based on previous data and Sony was kind enough to tell us that the PS4 basically outsold the XB1 2:1 so we can get their number as well.
Nintendo doesn't give out numbers because well they're the worst of the 3
great someone's door is getting kicked down right now because of you.
Aquamarine
Member
271K PS4
141K Xbox One
49K Wii U.
Estimate consensus by GAF:
3DS: ~97K
PS3: ~53.5K
360: ~48.5K
Vita: <17K
Wait so how does npd work? Do companies voluntarily send them sales numbers and then...? Do they put those numbers into reports and sell them? How so leakers get their info? Do they actually work for npd?
GAF -> NPD -> FBI -> Internet -> GAF
the birth of GAF--->NPD--->GAF
GAF -> NPD -> FBI -> Internet -> GAF
theprodigy
Member
bishopcruz
Member
I have trouble believing the Wii U will end up at under that though.
The Saturn just dies on the vine over here, and I wasn't helped at all by being officially dead for over a year before the DC launched. I had one, and there were no games to be had in 1999, and practically none in 1998. Gotta love Stolar. Then again, that's kind of what happened with the Wii even though it WAS actually successful, practically no games for it in the two years leading up to the launch of its successor.
The DC did always feel like the biggest reversal of fortune in gaming. Great launch, great games, but it didn't matter. Sony's hype for the PS2 was untouchable. People really expected it to actually do everything Krazy Ken said it would. I just expected it to have done 5m US at least. After that early hype for the DC no one seemed to care.
Aquamarine
Member
1) Yes, voluntarily or NPD gives them an incentive.
2) The numbers they report are an aggregate of data sourced from those retailers. That constitutes 90-95% of the USA retail market. The remaining 5-10% is then estimated by NPD using a variety of proprietary and well-developed algorithms.
3) Leakers are NPD clients (they pay money to get NPD data)
4)
Here is a list of USA Electronics retailers that give NPD their sales information:
4Sure.com, AAFES, AAFES.com, ABC Warehouse, ABC Warehouse.com, Abt Electronics, Abt Electronics.com, Amazon.com, American TV, AmericanTV.com, Apple, Apple.com, AT&T, Beach Camera.com, Bernie's8, Best Buy, Best Buy.com, Bjorn's, BJ's Wholesale, Blockbuster Video, Bloomingdale's, Bob & Ron's Worldwide Stereo, Bob & Ron's Worldwide Stereo.com, Boscov's, Boscovs.com, BrandsMart, BrandsMart.com, Calumet.com, Circuit City.com 1, CompUSA.com, CompUSA/Tiger Direct4, Conns Appliance, Conns Appliance.com, Costco, Cowboy Maloney's, Crutchfield, Crutchfield.com, Dell.com, Dillard's, Dollar General, Duckwall Alco, Dunham's Sports, eCost.com, Electronics Expo, Electronics Expo.com, Electronics Express, Electronics Express.com, Family Dollar Stores, Flanner's, Fred Meyer, GameStop, GameStop.com, Grupo Famsa, Hastings, hhgregg, hhgregg.com, Home Shopping Network, Home Shopping Network.com, Hunts Photo & Video.com, Huppins, JCPenney Company, JCPenney.com, Ken Crane's10, Kmart, Kmart.com, Kohl's, Kohl's.com, Curacao, Curacao.com, Listen Up, Listen Up.com, MacMall18, MacMall.com18 , Macy's, Macy's.com, Magnolia Hi-Fi, Marines Commissary Exchange, Meijer, Meijer.com, Myer Emco9, National Camera Exchange.com, Navy Exchange, NavyExchange.com, Nebraska Furniture Mart, NewEgg.com, Office Depot, Office Depot.com, OfficeMax, OfficeMax.com, OneCall.com, OnSale/eCOST.com17, Ovation Audio/Video Specialists14, Overstock.com, P.C. Richard & Son, P.C. Richard & Son.com, Pamida, Panasonic.com, Paradyme, Paul's TV, Paul's TV.com, PC Connection Express, Queen City Appliance, QVC, QVC.com, R.C. Willey, R.C. Willey.com, RadioShack, RadioShack.com, Rakuten.com, Reliable.com, Roku.com, Sam's Club, SamsClub.com, Sears, Sears.com, Shopko, Shopko.com, Sixth Avenue Electronics14, Sixth Avenue Electronics.com14, Sprint Store, Staples Third Party Direct, Staples USR, Staples.com, T-Mobile, T-Mobile.com. Target, Target.com, Tech Depot.com, Tekserve, Tekserve.com, The Bon Ton, TigerDirect.com, Toys R Us, Toys R Us.com, Ultimate Electronics12, Vann's, Vann's.com, Verizon, Verizon.com, Video Only, Walgreens, Walmart, Walmart.com
Here is a list of USA Electronic Software Distributors that give NPD their sales information (to retailers):
Arrow Enterprise Computing Solutions, ASI, Avnet Technology Solutions, D&H, Ingram Micro, Navarre, SED, Synnex, Tech Data, Westcon, WYNIT
And here is a list of USA Direct Marketing Resellers / Contract Stationers for Electronic Software:
Direct Marketing Resellers: Best Buy for Business, Calence (a division of Insight), CDW, Insight, NeweggBusiness, PC Connection, PCM2, PCMG3, Tiger Direct, Zones
Contract Stationers: Corporate Express, Office Depot, OfficeMax, Staples
Imperfected
Member
They collect direct point-of-sales data from participating retailers, yes. Most retailers participate because they actually use NPD's data in turn (for things like knowing how much initial stock of a product they should order based on past sales trends for similar products). There is a very small percentage of retailers who do not participate - usually because they are not franchise stores - for which they use a different methodology to extrapolate sales estimates.
Yes. The national (and particularly international) numbers are mostly of interest to investors, though obviously they have a deserved place as slides 4 and 5 of 50 on the 5-year strategy presentations of major hardware and software manufacturers, but the more granular data is of direct interest to everyone: retailers, publishers, and even developers of any significant size.
Everyone participates because everyone uses the data, basically.
As the Buddhists would say, "Mu."
That was really informative, thanks!
if there's one silver lining, it's that the weekly numbers haven't declined yoy (and have, actually, gone up). so it's not a vita situation where things are just getting worse as the system wears on. it's just in a terrible spot and it's not getting out of it. however, unless there's a second price drop and/or mario kart and smash bros. really move some units, i can't see the system doing more than 1.3m this year. there are some dead months between dkctf and mario kart, and whatever else is coming out until smash bros. won't do much.
if the wii u is around 3.5m next year at this time, i guess it has a shot at selling another 600k over time. maybe even get an ltd of around 5m before all is said and done. it's going to be a real tough battle though.
my first exposure to the system was seeing it at this game store in san dimas called sdk. it was 1999 and they were running an import of soulcalibur on a japanese dreamcast. i didn't even know what i was looking at until a few months later and heard sega was coming out with a new console. i wanted one desperately the first time i saw sonic adventure, and i'd been down on sega the whole time the saturn was out (due to irrational kid reasons).
2000 really was the year of the dreamcast though. i mean if there has ever been an actual year for any gaming console, 2000 was the year of the dreamcast. just a flurry of excellent varied titles. i was so excited when i got that machine for my birthday. ah, memories.
SMOK3Y
Generous Member
Agree, thanks Aquamarine
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
if ya'll stopped using full names and words like 'leaker' in the same post (that shows up when you google our names) you might find a little more 'insight,' but nawwww, people get all grubby and post-beggy and attract way too much attention
At least NPD are making strides in DD tracking.
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...come-the-fear-and-trepidation-on-digital-data
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...come-the-fear-and-trepidation-on-digital-data
Liabe Brave
Member
Is NPD still listing Navarre under that name? They changed to Speed Commerce recently. (Disclosure: I work in this field.) And interesting that they don't have D&H, who are smaller (only a few billion in annual sales) but are balanced more toward entertainment software. The big four--Avnet, Ingram Micro, Synnex, and Tech Data--encompass that business too but deal more heavily in hardware and business software. (Though Ingram has made noises over the years about joining entertainment and digital products to their book arm Ingram Content.)
Having this layer of reporting in addition is interesting. Most of these entities receive the majority of their product from the distributors listed previously. I guess it helps verify the numbers.
Sega never recovered their credibility after cutting the Saturn short and it always held the DC back. PS2 coming along and MS ready to enter the market was the final nails in the coffin.
Maybe the word leaker should be *rd out or something.
Maybe asking for numbers should be banned. Or perhaps if you want to know a number ask indirectly e.g. I hope "Wii Fit U didn't bomb" rather than "C*********r you wonderful l**k*r give me the Wii Fit U numbers now!
Maybe the word leaker should be *rd out or something.
Maybe asking for numbers should be banned. Or perhaps if you want to know a number ask indirectly e.g. I hope "Wii Fit U didn't bomb" rather than "C*********r you wonderful l**k*r give me the Wii Fit U numbers now!
1st Course
Member
They've been talking about traking digital sales for years now. I remember reading articles in 2010-2011 about it.
You used to get info about everything, like Virtua Quest debuting at 579 copies over 2 systems. Those days were magical.
CosmicQueso
Member
There are somewhere between 5-10 posters where I wish they could have the full data set because they are smart, thoughtful and insightful.
The rest of the noise is fanaticism for a particular franchise, the desire for schadenfreude, and especially now console warrior battles.
I wish people would understand that good conversation in these threads can actually help devs, pubs and game buyers all get better and make better decisions. It's a shame more people don't take advantage of that opportunity and would rather get the data to watch things burn. Whatever floats boats, I guess.
As for NPD being reliable, it's the only data source worth looking at for the US physical market. Period. Digital is coming along, but as opposed to acquiring data from retail (which is fairly easy), they have a tough road ahead getting the Activisions and EAs to volunteer their information. And on Canada? % of US, with the exception of NHL (not that this is how the data is compiled, but it's the reality of the results. Canadian and US buying patterns are remarkably similar, with the exception of the NHL franchise and a couple other outliers).
1st Course
Member
Devs/Pubs don't need NPD or whatever for digital sales info anyway. Acti, EA and even indie devs have direct access to their digital sales info from PSN/XBLA/Steam/iOS etc.
It's the other way around, NPD needs digital sales info, not publishers/devs.
It's the other way around, NPD needs digital sales info, not publishers/devs.
Are there any hardware outliers? Like 3DS more popular than here in US? or PSVITA selling more than 10% of USA numbers? or PS3 selling more than XBOX360? i remember once Sony countered XBOX PR statement by saying they topped Canada when XB topped USA...it was on twitter i think
CosmicQueso
Member
Think of it slightly differently. Activision wants to create a PSN/XBLA downloadable version of COD, for example. They want to go for a 2 hour experience for, say, $15.
To get that greenlit, the marketing or brand management team has to go to the executive team and say "hey, here's the idea. It'll cost $10 million to make and market". The executive team says "okay, how much can we make? How did Ubi do with the AC port?"
Without the comparable data sets, these conversations become impossible, and it is very difficult to get project approval. So yes, devs and pubs desperately need this information as Digital becomes more and more important both on the Consoles and STEAM.
And why would NPD need that info, anyways? To sell it to the publishers and devs, of course. Who do you think NPD's customer base is?
There can be differences, but nothing that significantly changes the course of the business.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Ah, the JSRF bundle. Probably the best bundled game of my gaming life. Too bad many others didn't think so, Gamestop had a ton of used copies shortly after its release.
1st Course
Member
I dunno but they clearly need them, otherwise they won't talk about them all these years.
Imperfected
Member
I probably shouldn't spitball this much, but I'd guess by-region if you split the difference between the American Midwest and Pacific Northwest you probably get a pretty solid picture of Canadian buying patterns, outside of maybe Quebec. (I'd be interested how much influence Ubisoft has on their purchasing habits, given the sheer size of the company's assets in the area.)
It's of mild interest if something sells better (proportionately) in Canada than the US, but for most cases you probably get a better idea of causation by comparing US/UK/Canada to worldwide numbers.
CosmicQueso
Member
Publishers and developers are NPD's customer base. Pubs and devs are demanding this data and NPD is trying to find ways to meet this need.
These early NPD's won't matter if MS can continue to improve the XBO feature list and release several top notch exclusive titles. Just look at the PS3 and 360. The PS3 was doomed people said. We now know the PS3 outsold the 360 to date. Sadly, I can envision a situation where Sony is slow to respond or implement essential features to the PS4.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I have always wanted to see a break down of numbers by state. Just system ownership over the past few gens and the top 10 games. Sometimes we end up thinking something is popular in our region when it isn't or vice versa. Besides, it would be funny to see if there were any cities that bought more Gamecubes than PS2's or that odd military fort where Call of Duty 4 didn't sell.
Here are the difference .
MS doesn't have japan
Sony even with comeback lost huge ps2 market share.
Sony has more stable of first party that it can ride till end (last of us)
Cheaper and definitively more powerful
PS+
PS3 was launched year behind
Imperfected
Member
I think you'd definitely see some interesting patterns with regards to things like Call of Duty 4 sales in the Southwest vs. East Coast, but that's an example of something that's a little too "inside baseball" to be safe to leak; Activision (and for that matter, EA) will both pay good money for that data since they can use it along with other things like Google Analytics to get a more complete demographic picture of who's buying their (or their competitor's) game.
I know what you mean, though. I grew up in the rural South and never actually saw a SEGA system until the 32X was on the market, and I've always wondered if that was just a weird encapsulated experience or if the Genesis really was persona non grata in the region. Sometimes it's not about business, just simple curiosity.