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[grimshawish]

I've also pointed out in the past that the PS3 price cut still saw sales fall. Theres a debate to be had whether it would have had steeper sales falls, but at least it would be at a higher price.

Opiate is right - Vita might suddenly 'sell more units' from a price cut but it wouldn't be turning a better profit, in fact it would become even more of a flop for them. Sales would have to promise better profits post-cut than they do pre-cut, I'd suggest Vita has bigger problems than price atm.

Sony are not going to cut the price unless their confident it'll mean profits.
The PS3 price cut didn't; they'd probably have been better making more money off slightly less sales.


Vita's problems stem from its pre-release planning and the products strategy. It shouldn't have been released as such an expensive piece of kit; and even then they'd have struggled. The PSP struggled, I've no idea why people thought the Vita graphics would make it a success, its like they don't know the generation has moved on and those graphics are...below average.

/blah - am still hopeful Sony expand in the tablet market, its where they should have had these resources in the first place.

The situation for dedicated handhelds is a complete disaster in my opinion. The new kindle fire at 159 is cheaper not only than vita but every 3ds sku. Im not going to say something dumb like 3ds is done in na (sorry heavy) but nintendo is going to be hurting going forward. Please remember their handhelds have always been theur bread and butter.

I suspect the 3DS will have a short life cycle - not that it will 'die', just be replaced by a more social device. Nintendo do have some good ideas, spot pass and street pass are brilliant features! Nintendo going forward are going to have to start merging their console/handheld products or starting to move away from one. The 3DS is still a good platform for software sales, lets not forget that or the fact that overall Nintendo is a very lean company.

Theres still life in two screens imo.
Meanwhile tablets/phones are yet to settle or really meet their market share - its still expanding and we've yet to see the destination for hardware/software. (tablets aren't as interchangable as some think, these are not phones that can be exchanged in on contracts - they'll likely be thought to last more than an annual update!).

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Stop before you appear too dumb.

Source? Because we have hard facts that show us purchasing power has dropped sharply because of skyrocketing food, energy, and medical costs. That is a lot of extra money spent toward necessities now.

It's a ~25% decrease from last August. The NPDs this year have also been pretty low and sub 200k. For a platform still only a couple years old it shouldn't be declining in sales, there should be a strong growth period now with there being more software out and more awareness of its existence, but there's not. If not "done", then it's in a noticeable decline which isn't a good sign when you're only like 1/3 into the system's life. You're going to defend every aspect of the big N regardless Plinko but how do you explain this.

The situation for dedicated handhelds is a complete disaster in my opinion. The new kindle fire at 159 is cheaper not only than vita but every 3ds sku. Im not going to say something dumb like 3ds is done in na (sorry heavy) but nintendo is going to be hurting going forward. Please remember their handhelds have always been theur bread and butter.

See, slimer knows. I'm not nuts

 

[Father_Brain]

That's just a myth vita not having compelling content. It needs a price drop and advertisement.

If Vita had content the mass market would find incredibly compelling if the entry price were just lower, the software would be selling much better than it has been.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

So PSP + Vita < 50k

That's new levels of failing

eesshhh

 

[Mpl90]

If Vita had content the mass market would find incredibly compelling if the entry price were just lower, the software would be selling much better than it has been.

If things continue like this, Vita itself will become a myth.

 

[metalslimer]

That's just a myth vita not having compelling content. It needs a price drop and advertisement.

People need to realize compelling content means a different thing in a SALES thread

 

[grimshawish]

People need to realize compelling content means a different thing in a SALES thread

People need to realise that playing PSV games 20 times is not normal and games from past consoles is NOT how you sell a new one

 

[test_account]

Yea, I think everyone misses that point, or they want to. I love how many people are going to have to eat crow after the holidays. I also think people are going to be a little surprised by the digital numbers for NSMB2.

You think that KH3D will end up selling over 900k in the US alone by the end of this year?

Either way Sleeping Dogs came out the 17th of August and did 100+ in the both the US and the States. No one has exact numbers and even the difference on VG is pretty small, so I don't get all of the it was a Huge hit in the UK and it was a flop in the US in comparison.

They sold about the same, but it simply did a little better in the UK.

You must also concider the market size differeces. A game selling i.e 50k can be a great success in one country, but a big failure in a huge country. Sleeping Dogs have done great in the UK so far, that is a fact

EDIT: I see now that Zoidberg_Jesus already mentioned this =)

 

[metalslimer]

Continuing on about how this being a new normal for handhelds is terrible nintendo is spending a lot more money to develop 3ds games along with much more expensice hd projects. If their handhelds stop being insanely lucrative i fear what would happen if wii u doesnt catch on or they have some bombs on it.They dont the microsoft bank account and sony is an example of how not to run a company

 

[pixelbox]

People need to realise that playing PSV games 20 times is not normal and games from past consoles is NOT how you sell a new one

When I said the vita had content i wasnt talking about ps1 games. The people that keeps screaming killer apps need to realize you cant just create one. Its completely random as to what the masses deems killer. Just look at Re4 for the GC.

 

[Cheech]

That is the problem. Sony is no longer the international corporate juggernaut it once was; these are not easy choices to make. They could "really want" to do it, but 500 million - 1 Billion dollars is a lot of money.

Right, but at this point Sony has these choices:

1. Throw good money after bad via a price cut, in hopes that people start buying the damn thing, which may or may not compel more publisher interest.

2. Simply kill the thing.

I honestly don't see a third option.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Here's some (deliberately) simple math to elaborate on my point. Whatever the current profit/loss situation for the manufacture, distribution and sale of Vitas is, lets imagine a 50 dollar price drop is enacted worldwide.

Then, let's imagine this 50 dollar price drop allowed them to sell their 10M Vitas they want to sell over the next 12 months. This represents a 500 million dollar loss in revenue compared to their current expectations. If the Vita requires a 100 dollar price drop to reach its expected sales targets -- which is actually possible, given how dramatically it's underperforming at the moment -- this would represent a 1 Billion dollar deficit relative to expected revenues.

That is the problem. Sony is no longer the international corporate juggernaut it once was; these are not easy choices to make. They could "really want" to do it, but 500 million - 1 Billion dollars is a lot of money.

And on top of that, I don't believe a 50 dollar price drop will do a single thing about the software problem (which is the real issue, even for Nintendo to an extent).

This thing should have been a hybrid Android from Day 1. And IMO, only an Android firmware update at this point has any chance of saving it. No matter what the price.

That's just a myth vita not having compelling content. It needs a price drop and advertisement.

Advertising will not help one bit. It's not a horrible lineup when looked at in a vacuum. But it's a horrible lineup when you realize those games average 40 bucks a pop. Those ho-hum titles do nothing to separate themselves and command such a premium... let alone drive anyone to go out and buy the hardware for the privilege of then spending 40 bucks a pop for each one.

 

[grimshawish]

When I said the vita had content i wasnt talking about ps1 games. The people that keeps screaming killer apps need to realize you cant just create one. Its completely random as to what the masses deems killer.

How does that mean it has compelling content though...

Just look at Re4 for the GC.

Uhm.................what about it?

 

[Delusibeta]

Continuing on about how this being a new normal for handhelds is terrible nintendo is spending a lot more money to develop 3ds games along with much more expensice hd projects. If their handhelds stop being insanely lucrative i fear what would happen if wii u doesnt catch on or they have some bombs on it.They dont the microsoft bank account and sony is an example of how not to run a company

If I was Microsoft and the Wii U flops, I would probably be reconsidering the price points of the Xbox 3. The theory goes that new consoles are required to invigorate the market, but new handhelds have both failed to invigorate their sector. If the Wii U becomes the new 3DS, then I would imagine Microsoft will begin slashing their expected RRP for the Xbox 3 from presumably above $300 down to about $200 for their basic model at least, since it'll be a sign that the market for dedicated gaming devices has shrunk massively, possibly to the point where we're in an industry crash situation.

 

[metalslimer]

When I said the vita had content i wasnt talking about ps1 games. The people that keeps screaming killer apps need to realize you cant just create one. Its completely random as to what the masses deems killer. Just look at Re4 for the GC.

Exclusive monster hunter is a killer app in japan. Big established franchises are killer apps. They dont have to be new ips. The problem vita is that people have been pushing cod as a killer app since it was announced and are finally coming back down to reality

 

[pixelbox]

Sony needs to build an eco system of devices to support each other, I.E. larger vita tablet, Ps3, and Vita. Plus the price needs to be right because right now it looks like an excessively expensive gaming device.

 

[Joseph Flemming]

You think that KH3D will end up selling over 900k in the US alone by the end of this year?

Absolutely not. I do think it can achieve that over its lifetime. I have been a lurker here for a long time, respect your contributions in the various sales threads, both Media Creates and NPD, so I don't have to remind you that games slow burn off the charts over time.

Besides, this will probably hit the eShop (maybe a year or so down the line) and probably give the game another bump.

 

[electroplankton]

I'd say KH3D is more likely to follow BBS path and sell around 450-500k LTD, but who knows.

 

[metalslimer]

If I was Microsoft and the Wii U flops, I would probably be reconsidering the price points of the Xbox 3. The theory goes that new consoles are required to invigorate the market, but new handhelds have both failed to invigorate the sector. If the Wii U becomes the new 3DS, then I would imagine Microsoft will begin slashing their expected RRP for the Xbox 3 from presumably above $300 down to about $200 for their basic model at least.

With nsmb2 seemingly not giving 3ds the crazy boost they wanted i can see why wii u at 250 is something they have to go for. Tablets have gotten so much cheaper since last year which i dont think nimtendo expected at all. And if nsmbu isnt a huge system seller the wii u will be in for a rough time even at 250. Oh and ive been saying it since the jpn launch but nintendo will regret pokemon being on ds for a while

 

[Joseph Flemming]

You think that KH3D will end up selling over 900k in the US alone by the end of this year?




You must also concider the market size differeces. A game selling i.e 50k can be a great success in one country, but a big failure in a huge country. Sleeping Dogs have done great in the UK so far, that is a fact

EDIT: I see now that Zoidberg_Jesus already mentioned this =)

Absolutely not. I do think it can achieve that over its lifetime. I have been a lurker here for a long time, respect your contributions in the various sales threads, both Media Creates and NPD, so I don't have to remind you that games slow burn off the charts over time.

Besides, this will probably hit the eShop (maybe a year or so down the line) and probably give the game another bump.

Edit: Sorry for double post, on iPad

 

[DEADEVIL]

Erm, you are aware that the US has five times the population of the UK? The US sales being only marginally better show that the game has either underperformed in America or overperformed in the UK.

Erm you do know that the entire population of both countries do not own game system. the game simply performed as good as it was going to perform period.

But it wasnt some monster hit in one region and a flop in another.

 

[grimshawish]

If I was Microsoft and the Wii U flops, I would probably be reconsidering the price points of the Xbox 3. The theory goes that new consoles are required to invigorate the market, but new handhelds have both failed to invigorate the sector. If the Wii U becomes the new 3DS, then I would imagine Microsoft will begin slashing their expected RRP for the Xbox 3 from presumably above $300 down to about $200 for their basic model at least.

They would have to reduce what the machine is powered to do (which they wouldn't and couldn't at this late stage without a delay). MS cannot seriously be looking to make big losses again; their being attacked on too many fronts and the gaming section needs to start paying back investors.

If the games console market is unsustainable without big losses then its 100% fucked.

Personally I think MS should announce Live is free for 720 customers, they'd sell pretty well imo as every year your being asked for a sum of money that you'll then think 'well...why wait to get a 720?'. Only if the market is troublesome ofc, MS make good money off live but am not sure how that model can continue if their under strong competition.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

The situation for dedicated handhelds is a complete disaster in my opinion. The new kindle fire at 159 is cheaper not only than vita but every 3ds sku. Im not going to say something dumb like 3ds is done in na (sorry heavy) but nintendo is going to be hurting going forward. Please remember their handhelds have always been theur bread and butter.

I definitely think Nintendo is going to feel the heat this holiday. I know 3DS just recently returned to profitability but I think they should be looking hard at spring 2013 cuts to $129/$159XL and introducing the Nintendo Selects line (at $19.99, both retail and digital). Unlike Vita, 3DS is actually in a position where price cuts can sustainably propel the platform yet.

I suspect the 3DS will have a short life cycle - not that it will 'die', just be replaced by a more social device. Nintendo do have some good ideas, spot pass and street pass are brilliant features! Nintendo going forward are going to have to start merging their console/handheld products or starting to move away from one. The 3DS is still a good platform for software sales, lets not forget that or the fact that overall Nintendo is a very lean company.

I agree the long term goal for Nintendo is probably merging their console and handheld lines (and Wii U is an insightful first step towards that) but I don't expect 3DS to be replaced anytime soon and I also think it's going to enjoy a "full" hardware cycle (unlike poor GBA).

If it gets replaced soon, it's going to be by a half-gen upgrade (like GBC or DSi) that simply upclocks the chipset and adds some functionality. I could definitely see that happening sooner though, especially with an eye towards social features like you suggested. Wii U's response and reaction to stuff like Miiverse will probably be pivotal in the decision making, much like DSi was basically done to add camera interface and a digital shop in response to Wii.

 

[pixelbox]

How does that mean it has compelling content though...



Uhm.................what about it?

Capcom had to move development over to the PS3 to recoup on development cost. And then whored It over to the wii and pc.

 

[Tobor]

Right, but at this point Sony has these choices:

1. Throw good money after bad via a price cut, in hopes that people start buying the damn thing, which may or may not compel more publisher interest.

2. Simply kill the thing.

I honestly don't see a third option.

The third option is just to let the poor thing lay there in a coma as long as they can convince retail to keep carrying it. That's the option they appear to have chosen.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

You think that KH3D will end up selling over 900k in the US alone by the end of this year?

I bet it can pass BBS by the end of the year. :3

 

[TheSeks]

My point is, Sony is going to get buried by Amazon and Apple once that window closes. I'm not sure if you're from the US or not, but the Kindle Fire here is ridiculously popular with the crowd that Sony is trying to sell the Vita to.

I've been saying it since I got a PSP2: Sony needs to get Amazon and Barnes and Noble to do a Kindle/Nook app and they need it pronto. The fact the screen cries out for an eBook app but doesn't have one is insane.

I certainly wouldn't be looking for a Kindle Fire if Sony finally got Amazon to do it.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Capcom had to move development over to the PS3 to recoup on development cost. And then whored It over to the wii and pc.

I think you meant PS2. And no, they didn't "have" to do it to break even, as a GCN exclusive the game easily would've been profitable.

 

[A Human Becoming]

We need more leaked numbers. Someone send me the information, I'll keep my sources secret.

 

[hachi]

It's a ~25% decrease from last August. The NPDs this year have also been pretty low and sub 200k. For a platform still only a couple years old it shouldn't be declining in sales, there should be a strong growth period now with there being more software out and more awareness of its existence, but there's not. If not "done", then it's in a noticeable decline which isn't a good sign when you're only like 1/3 into the system's life. You're going to defend every aspect of the big N regardless Plinko but how do you explain this.


See, slimer knows. I'm not nuts

It's odd to compare August 2011 without noting that the massive price drop hit during that month. Sure, August 2012 saw a new model, but it was only for the final week rather than the whole month, and is a significantly more expensive alternative rather than a drop in cost.

Spoiler

And no offense, but I really wish you'd change that profile image. Your last one was hilarious... this one kind of grosses me out.

 

[Dynoro]

Erm you do know that the entire population of both countries do not own game system. the game simply performed as good as it was going to perform period.

But it wasnt some monster hit in one region and a flop in another.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Sleeping Dogs was 2nd/3rd (week 33), 1st/4th (week 34) and 2nd/4th (last week) in the UK and was dropping much slower in sales than normal (15% to 38% drops). It absolutely was a hit in the UK and not in the USA. For a game to sell roughly the same in two markets that are so disparate in sales and revenue shows this.

 

[test_account]

Absolutely not. I do think it can achieve that over its lifetime. I have been a lurker here for a long time, respect your contributions in the various sales threads, both Media Creates and NPD, so I don't have to remind you that games slow burn off the charts over time.

Besides, this will probably hit the eShop (maybe a year or so down the line) and probably give the game another bump.

I understand. I was just wondering regards what you said about that many people would eat crow after this holiday, it you expected it to hit 900k by then A digital version is possible. I have no idea how much it will sell, but i can see that it can be offered as a digital download at least.

Thanks

 

[grimshawish]

I definitely think Nintendo is going to feel the heat this holiday. I know 3DS just recently returned to profitability but I think they should be looking hard at spring 2013 cuts to $129/$159XL and introducing the Nintendo Selects line (at $19.99, both retail and digital). Unlike Vita, 3DS is actually in a position where price cuts can sustainably propel the platform yet.

Agree, Nintendo should be continuously bringing the 3DS price down. Course, we don't know if 'making profit' takes into account annual software sales on the platform.

A 3DS Lite to go with the XL design too would be a good idea; incorporating the energy saving ideas used in the XL; I still think Nintendo have a good place to market the handheld as being a good thing as no one wants their phone to die because of Angry Birds.

If it gets replaced soon, it's going to be by a half-gen upgrade (like GBC or DSi) that simply upclocks the chipset and adds some functionality. I could definitely see that happening sooner though, especially with an eye towards social features like you suggested. Wii U's response and reaction to stuff like Miiverse will probably be pivotal in the decision making, much like DSi was basically done to add camera interface and a digital shop in response to Wii.

Yeah I could see this instead. I wouldn't have expected a new 3DS to be a big change anyway (adding more OS features). Miiverse functionality could be a good place to start. Future handhelds should be moving graphical power more in hand with resolution increases to allow more functionality.

Capcom had to move development over to the PS3 to recoup on development cost. And then whored It over to the wii and pc.

Whored it to Wii Nintendo must have been PISSED
But yes, your right. Still doesn't this just add to the problems that Vita has?

Its not an easy job and there is a question mark over why Sony would bring what they feel could be system seller ideas to the Vita and not PS4. Vita's issues are more that it exists at all I feel :/

 

[Cheech]

The third option is just to let the poor thing lay there in a coma as long as they can convince retail to keep carrying it. That's the option they appear to have chosen.

Yeah, that is basically just choosing to kill it. Target, Walmart, etc. don't have an endless supply of patience. This isn't the "Milk and Honey" PS1/PS2 days where crazy amounts of Sony hardware and software was flying off the shelf, where the big box stores could be forced to carry slow selling Sony products. I fully expect to see Vitas as soon as January with "red tag clearance" stickers on them if Sony continues to sit on its hands.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

If I was Microsoft and the Wii U flops, I would probably be reconsidering the price points of the Xbox 3. The theory goes that new consoles are required to invigorate the market, but new handhelds have both failed to invigorate their sector. If the Wii U becomes the new 3DS, then I would imagine Microsoft will begin slashing their expected RRP for the Xbox 3 from presumably above $300 down to about $200 for their basic model at least, since it'll be a sign that the market for dedicated gaming devices has shrunk massively, possibly to the point where we're in an industry crash situation.

Any struggling of the Wii U will simply be interpreted as "the market is tired of 360-level graphics."

$300 isn't expensive for a console - it's expensive for a seven year old console. The number of people interested at that price point dwindles every day. It was naive for MS and Sony to think their systems were immune to consumer fatigue just because they are the only show in town with the Wii dying a slow death.

A hw refresh with new tech that's actually worth the asking price will see a rejuvenation of the market.

The Vita and 3DS have a different problem. Not only are they barely price competitive with tablets with way more functions, they also have the software pricing problem. I don't think the US handheld industry is ever going to be as strong as Japan's this generation, there just aren't as many mid-tier hits.

 

[AdventureRacing]

So vita looks like it's about to die and the 3DS is struggling. Can't say i'm disappointed, even as a hardcore gamer i can barely find a game i like on either platform. The software released so far this gen on handhelds is terrible.

The home console market also looks to be struggling and i really worry about the wii U's future.

Pretty shitty state of affairs all around.

The Vita and 3DS have a different problem. Not only are they barely price competitive with tablets with way more functions, they also have the software pricing problem.

That is a huge problem but ultimately i think their failing still comes down to a lack of games. There is pretty much nothing good on either handheld, especially talking about the mass market. 2 months in a row with no retail releases? Why the hell should anyone be buying this thing?

 

[d1rtn4p]

I see a lot of people blaming the economy on this. I can only speak out of personal experience, but I know I'm ready to spend my cash on the next awesome thing, no matter what the cost is really. Holding a decent job, I can say that price stopped being a factor for me years ago.

Thing is, I've usually had one console and my PC. In this case, I went with the PS3 this gen, and Sony is making it hard for me to love them. Out of all the exclusives, the only ones I've kept around are Uncharted 2 and LittleBigPlanet 1 and 2. Otherwise, I find the system a total pain to have to deal with. Having to manually download and wait for games to install is just for the birds.

That said, to me, PC gaming hasn't been this good in years due to Steam. So many awesome games come out on it, and usually, any third-party game that comes out on Sony will come to Steam, so why bother with a console? Couch? Check; right in front of my PC. Big screen? Check; 61" Samsung plasma hooked up to my PC...

If the consoles or handhelds had, likewise, a good amount of exclusives worth owning now and in the future, I would definitely entertain one of them again. I'd love to own a Vita, but there isn't any game other than LBP that I could see myself even playing. If they announce some good titles, like a GTA for it, hell yeah I'm there.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I've been saying it since I got a PSP2: Sony needs to get Amazon and Barnes and Noble to do a Kindle/Nook app and they need it pronto. The fact the screen cries out for an eBook app but doesn't have one is insane.

I certainly wouldn't be looking for a Kindle Fire if Sony finally got Amazon to do it.

Would anyone under *insert arbitrary age* be picking up a Fire if Sony had made it Android compatible from Day 1? All of these apps would have been there day one.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I don't believe that the Vita's problems have anything to do with its price. For sector of the gaming market it's targeting the price is reasonable but Sony just badly botched the launch of the device to the point that I'm not certain it can recover. I still can't believe that their entire software strategy so far has been pretty much based on the Vita being a portable HD console. Am I the only one who sees the problem with that?

The 3DS on the other hand has a big price problem. It's just too expensive the mass market games Nintendo produces and I'm still not sure why they thought releasing an even more expensive revision for the device would help things. They need to focus as much resources as they can towards bringing the price of both the 3DS and XL down to below the $129 price point. In fact, I really don't think that they should ever consider releasing another handheld for more that $149 at launch.

 

[Opiate]

I see a lot of people blaming the economy on this. I can only speak out of personal experience, but I know I'm ready to spend my cash on the next awesome thing, no matter what the cost is really. Holding a decent job, I can say that price stopped being a factor for me years ago.

Thing is, I've usually had one console and my PC. In this case, I went with the PS3 this gen, and Sony is making it hard for me to love them. Out of all the exclusives, the only ones I've kept around are Uncharted 2 and LittleBigPlanet 1 and 2. Otherwise, I find the system a total pain to have to deal with. Having to manually download and wait for games to install is just for the birds.

That said, to me, PC gaming hasn't been this good in years due to Steam. So many awesome games come out on it, and usually, any third-party game that comes out on Sony will come to Steam, so why bother with a console? Couch? Check; right in front of my PC. Big screen? Check; 61" Samsung plasma hooked up to my PC...

If the consoles or handhelds had, likewise, a good amount of exclusives worth owning now and in the future, I would definitely entertain one of them again. I'd love to own a Vita, but there isn't any game other than LBP that I could see myself even playing. If they announce some good titles, like a GTA for it, hell yeah I'm there.

From what we can tell -- which is mostly anecdotal or from reports from publishers -- the PC space is flourishing. iOS is also doing well.

The struggles appear to be localized primarily around Sony/MS/Nintendo.

 

[Mpl90]

Continuing on about how this being a new normal for handhelds is terrible nintendo is spending a lot more money to develop 3ds games along with much more expensice hd projects. If their handhelds stop being insanely lucrative i fear what would happen if wii u doesnt catch on or they have some bombs on it.They dont the microsoft bank account and sony is an example of how not to run a company

Well, so far Nintendo games are selling in a good way on 3DS, and certainly not all of them eat lots of economic resources ( 3DS hardware isn't Vita, nor PS3: it's basically a Wii with fewer polygon capacity and better shaders), and they'd have a pretty big amount of cash with no debits at all...but yeah, it's a particular time for them, we'll see what will happen.
And right now I'd say 3DS is having some problems just in USA: aside from Japan, where it's selling fantastic, in Europe it's very possible the platform is doing very well now, considering:

1)How XL did in its first week (OG+XL = 92k, much more than the 38k 3DS was doing before; so around 60k in just one day)
2)How games started performing across all the charts not just for the debut week(both 3D Land and Kart 7 back in top 10s, even in England, even with increases week after week, also KH doing good and Mario & Sonic increasing a lot), signal of hardware sales being strong
3)NSMB2 being very strong as it is right now even in countries where handhelds never did well (Scandinavia)

Still, back to US, I think we'll see NSMB2 impact much better in the following months, especially during Holidays, but I'm not so convinced NSMBU can be a big system seller with Wii U at 299$. At 249$, no problem at all.

 

[Father_Brain]

Advertising will not help one bit. It's not a horrible lineup when looked at in a vacuum. But it's a horrible lineup when you realize those games average 40 bucks a pop. Those ho-hum titles do nothing to separate themselves and command such a premium... let alone drive anyone to go out and buy the hardware for the privilege of then spending 40 bucks a pop for each one.

Nah, it really is a pretty horrible lineup from a sales perspective. Software price cuts would obviously help, but not nearly enough.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Here's some (deliberately) simple math to elaborate on my point. Whatever the current profit/loss situation for the manufacture, distribution and sale of Vitas is, lets imagine a 50 dollar price drop is enacted worldwide.

Then, let's imagine this 50 dollar price drop allowed them to sell their 10M Vitas they want to sell over the next 12 months. This represents a 500 million dollar loss in revenue compared to their current expectations. If the Vita requires a 100 dollar price drop to reach its expected sales targets -- which is actually possible, given how dramatically it's underperforming at the moment -- this would represent a 1 Billion dollar deficit relative to expected revenues.

That is the problem. Sony is no longer the international corporate juggernaut it once was; these are not easy choices to make. They could "really want" to do it, but 500 million - 1 Billion dollars is a lot of money.

So let the Vita become irrelevant for one year until they can drop the price without losing money for each one or loss lots of money to give the Vita a chance to be successful?

Pretty fucked up.

 

[pixelbox]

Whored it to Wii Nintendo must have been PISSED
But yes, your right. Still doesn't this just add to the problems that Vita has?

Its not an easy job and there is a question mark over why Sony would bring what they feel could be system seller ideas to the Vita and not PS4. Vita's issues are more that it exists at all I feel :/

I think there's a place for the vita but the way sony markets it is the cause of the result we see. Ive have said inthe past the economy is the cause of the NPD we see. people what multi-funtional devices and if Nintendo doesn't adapt they will be in some serious shit in the near future, mario or not. Realize we are in a totally different generation of sexing, texting, low attention holding people. Phones are doing it for them and soon the handheld market will vanish.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

A few months ago I got ripped for saying 3DS was pretty much done in NA in this thread, well 170k sales which is ~25% less than last year. The Vita is already 6 feet under, probably approaching the Earth's core by now. Handheld market is done in NA, just a matter of time.

How do you define "dead"? I don't think the 3DS is going away. At worst it's going to be a N64/Gamecube affair and that's not "dead". Vita on the other hand is in trouble of actually being dropped by retailers before it's time. There is simply not enough air in the room to support two players in this field. The dedicated handheld market has contracted, there's no question about it. However, I think the sales figures indicate that there is enough market in NA for the 3DS to continue on for a normal life-cycle. What Nintendo decides to do after that is the question.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I think there's a place for the vita but the way sony markets it is the cause of the result we see. Ive have said inthe past the economy is the cause of the NPD we see. people what multi-funtional devices and if Nintendo doesn't adapt they will be in some serious shit in the near future, mario or not. Realize we are in a totally different generation of sexing, texting, low attention holding people. Phones are doing it for them and soon the handheld market will vanish.

I think the economy is probably impacting the dedicated gaming market a little bit but i don't think it's the driving factor for these poor sales. In fact i think it's actually a pretty minor reason.

 

[Joseph Flemming]

I understand. I was just wondering regards what you said about that many people would eat crow after this holiday, it you expected it to hit 900k by then A digital version is possible. I have no idea how much it will sell, but i can see that it can be offered as a digital download at least.

Thanks

Well, I think some people are a little to quick to think if a game doesn't debut high in it's first week/first month it's doom and gloom; frankly the Sr. Members here knows that's not the truth. It's sensational, but disingenuous at best.

People love jumping the gun, first the 3DS is dead, (last year) and that dedicated handhelds are dead because of smartphones/tablets. While I concede that the emergence of cheap ios/android games is taking an initial chunk out of the handheld market; the casual crowd is a flicked beast. In my opinion, you will see a similar slowing of profitability on these smart devices as the casual market has their fill of cheap gaming. To me this is just the new "Zynga" "Facebook game" craze on portable platforms.

IMHO, people will either grow tired of the Angry Bird derivative games, or crave something more "meaty" to play. Graduate or drop out. I believe you are seeing a false expansion of mobile games, because a lot of people are still migrating to smartphones, from feature phones. The question I ask though is:What is the retention rate here?

As mobile gamers demand higher quality substantive games, how much are they willing to pay? I think if Sony and Nintendo can hang in there, adjust their online and digital retail prices and experiences, they can be in a position to capitalize off of the waning interest of consumers burnt out on cheap gaming thrills.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Nah, it really is a pretty horrible lineup from a sales perspective. Software price cuts would obviously help, but not nearly enough.

That was pretty much my point though. It is a horrible lineup from a sales perspective. But if you were to ignore everything and view it in a vacuum, it's got some decent titles. The problem is it's not selling in a vacuum and, as such, does suck. I'm simply making all of those qualifiers because if somebody was a fanboy, they wouldn't understand why people say the line-up sucks. And they're right. To an extent. The lineup doesn't suck if you have tunnel vision and ignore the realities of the marketplace.

 

[grimshawish]

From what we can tell -- which is mostly anecdotal or from reports from publishers -- the PC space is flourishing. iOS is also doing well.

The struggles appear to be localized primarily around Sony/MS/Nintendo.

Two of whom struggled last gen (maybe not in unit sales, but certainly profits).
PC doing well is really the smoking gun that this gen has gone on too long, people have been upgrading their PCs at the regular rate despite the economy, consoles have not been updating as regularly.

I'm still surprised the WiiU doesn't have more support from the PC centric space though. The tablet control makes many mouse controlled games easier to play (e.g. top down). Course, PC devs needs power as time passes...which is uhm...problematic.

iOS is a changing market though. I do think its pricing and output will change just as rapidly as it arrived. Not to be 'unsuccessful' but just different and in some ways a better platform for some devs.

I think there's a place for the vita but the way sony markets it is the cause of the result we see. Ive have said inthe past the economy is the cause of the NPD we see. people what multi-funtional devices and if Nintendo doesn't adapt they will be in some serious shit in the near future, mario or not. Realize we are in a totally different generation of sexing, texting, low attention holding people. Phones are doing it for them and soon the handheld market will vanish.

The economy isn't causing problems. People are still spending on the games market. Diablo III wasn't exactly dirt cheap.
Theres no sign of contraction in games spending outside the ageing consoles and yes - 3DS.

 

[Father_Brain]

That was pretty much my point though. It is a horrible lineup from a sales perspective. But if you were to ignore everything and view it in a vacuum, it's got some decent titles. The problem is it's not selling in a vacuum and, as such, does suck. I'm simply making all of those qualifiers because if somebody was a fanboy, they wouldn't understand why people say the line-up sucks. And they're right. To an extent. The lineup doesn't suck if you have tunnel vision and ignore the realities of the marketplace.

Ah, OK. That makes sense, sorry!