CrankyJay™
Member
It was certainly better than most other shows endings. I’m satisfied.
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newtypepilot
Member
What a way to end not only the series, but the whole BB/BCS universe. Lots of nice callbacks to the previous seasons, such as the scene where Jimmy and Kim sharing a cig. Oh, and the cameos too.
That being said, I think that a lot of people won't get the point of the ending. Throughout this life, Jimmy has been running, not only his trouble with the law but his feelings about Chuck or guilt regarding Howard's death, all the while using scams to cover his mistakes. The Saul Goodman persona is one big coping mechanism for losing the woman he loves. When shit blew up during BB, he ran away to become Gene. Chuck had always believed that he would never change, and he was right as Gene would go back to slippin' Jimmy and eventually the more sinister Saul Goodman ways. Despite all the shitty things he has done as Saul, he has no regrets, until he heard Kim had confessed everything about Howard. He had no idea how broken Kim had become, to the point that she was willingly open herself up to get sued by Cheryl and lose everything. He finally realize if he had kept going down the Saul path, he would continue to hurt people he loves. This is why he finally confessed for real at the end and leave his Saul Goodman persona behind once and for all. If he had taken the 7 year plea deal that he had manipulated, he would just be running again and down towards the dark path that is Saul Goodman.
That being said, I think that a lot of people won't get the point of the ending. Throughout this life, Jimmy has been running, not only his trouble with the law but his feelings about Chuck or guilt regarding Howard's death, all the while using scams to cover his mistakes. The Saul Goodman persona is one big coping mechanism for losing the woman he loves. When shit blew up during BB, he ran away to become Gene. Chuck had always believed that he would never change, and he was right as Gene would go back to slippin' Jimmy and eventually the more sinister Saul Goodman ways. Despite all the shitty things he has done as Saul, he has no regrets, until he heard Kim had confessed everything about Howard. He had no idea how broken Kim had become, to the point that she was willingly open herself up to get sued by Cheryl and lose everything. He finally realize if he had kept going down the Saul path, he would continue to hurt people he loves. This is why he finally confessed for real at the end and leave his Saul Goodman persona behind once and for all. If he had taken the 7 year plea deal that he had manipulated, he would just be running again and down towards the dark path that is Saul Goodman.
DForce
Member
Maybe YOU should watch the damn episode before replying to me.
I quoted Chuck from another episode where he told Jimmy that he hurt people around him, and this includes Kim Wexler. She wouldn't be in that position if it wasn't for him (even though she could take some of the blame for her own actions).
Did you actually see the look on Jimmy's face when he first heard that Kim spoke to the DA? You know that was the turning point, right? Were you even watching the scene on the plane with his lawyer? Did you see he was visibly disappointed when he found out what COULD happen to Kim?
He clearly did NOT want to see Kim face any more trouble and this is one of the reasons why he decided to take accountability for his actions.
This in turn brought back to the Kim Wexler we once knew. This was not the same broken woman we saw in episode 12. It's not the same woman we saw in the flashback talking to Jesse about what she thought about Saul Goodman.
Did you actually see the look on Jimmy's face when he first heard that Kim spoke to the DA? You know that was the turning point, right? Were you even watching the scene on the plane with his lawyer? Did you see he was visibly disappointed when he found out what COULD happen to Kim?
He clearly did NOT want to see Kim face any more trouble and this is one of the reasons why he decided to take accountability for his actions.
This in turn brought back to the Kim Wexler we once knew. This was not the same broken woman we saw in episode 12. It's not the same woman we saw in the flashback talking to Jesse about what she thought about Saul Goodman.
So yes, I watched it. Maybe you should do a better job paying attention and not making ridiculous assumptions about my post.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Yah, I tried to use the spoiler tags initially but it just showed up as an empty post so made the adjustment. I trusted DForce would be able to pick up on it.
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Corpsepyre
Member
You can count me as one of those who were super skeptical of Better Call Saul when it was first announced. I couldn't have rolled my eyes harder if I wanted. I called it a nonsense cash grab, and a failure of a spin-off that would be cancelled two seasons in. Here we are seven years later with the series finale, and it stands as not only one of the best TV shows I've seen in my life, but one that has set a new precedent for what prequels can aspire to be.
Going to really miss this universe and the writing and directing chops of Vince Gilligan & Peter Gould. Absolute master storytellers who delivered perfection.
Going to really miss this universe and the writing and directing chops of Vince Gilligan & Peter Gould. Absolute master storytellers who delivered perfection.
I mean, we agree on everything except imo Jimmy's action was more symbolic than anything since it doesn't actually prevent Cheryl Hamlin from pressing charges.
Thaedolus
Member
Yeah at the end of the day, I think this is the only ending I’d be happy with. Unlike Walt, Jimmy never fully embraced the darkness. He teetered here and there but pulled back. He never fully broke bad. He’s somewhere between Walt and Jesse, and they all got pretty much got what they deserved in the end. Also, they showed he’s pretty much the man in jail, and he seems to have made some sort of amends with Kim, so it’s truly a bittersweet end.
Sybrix
Member
Satisfying ending.
Right, it's the only ending this show could have had and it's perfect.
I'm seeing the usual dude bro's complaining and them expecting some sort of explosive ending for Saul and it was just never on the cards.
I really dont understand how anyone can think it wasnt going to end how it did.
nightmare-slain
Member
What a show. Sad to see it end now. I remember not enjoying it for a bit but maybe it was just because of the waiting between seasons. I might go and rewatch the entire show.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
This universe is the greatest creation of TV or movies in history. Find one series, any, in movie or TV that lasted 11 seasons and over 100 hours of content that was this good and this consistent.
At some point every series falls off. This universe never did. Gilligan is the GOAT.
At some point every series falls off. This universe never did. Gilligan is the GOAT.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
It's devastating to look back to the beginning from that ending.
But it's also such an impressive journey. Imagine being given those screenshots, contextless, as a writing assignment, and asked to take these characters convincingly from the top scene to the bottom scene. I don't think anyone could pull it off better than what we were given here.
But it's also such an impressive journey. Imagine being given those screenshots, contextless, as a writing assignment, and asked to take these characters convincingly from the top scene to the bottom scene. I don't think anyone could pull it off better than what we were given here.
Oh wow, didn't realize how closely matched those shots were.It's devastating to look back to the beginning from that ending.
But it's also such an impressive journey. Imagine being given those screenshots, contextless, as a writing assignment, and asked to take these characters convincingly from the top scene to the bottom scene. I don't think anyone could pull it off better than what we were given here.
Time to rewatch this series w/ my gf, who has only seen BB.
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ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Unfortunately my wife dropped off halfway through this show. Not that she didn't recognize the quality, but she has a low maximum ceiling for how much she can sit and watch people destroy themselves. Too depressing for her even at the halfway mark.
Thaedolus
Member
My wife bailed on BB for the same reason. No matter how many times people try to talk her into it, she just can’t handle the drug/underground culture and depressing mood.
I love it though. Such a great blend of dark comedy mixed with compelling drama and a slow burn that always pays off…these guys really are masters of the craft.
I will say- it felt like the cameos by Aaron Paul and Bryan Cranston didn’t hit like they could have. They both seemed a bit like they were out of practice playing the characters and kind of hamming it up. Betsy Brandt nailed Marie though, she could’ve walked right off the BB set and onto this show and I wouldn’t have noticed.
I thought Bryan Cranston was brilliant in the last episode, that's just me though.
Thaedolus
Member
He was better than Aaron Paul for sure, but it still felt like yeah it’s been 10 years since BB and there was some rust. Betsy Brandt nailed it though, and after seeing her read other character’s lines at table reads in the BB behind the scenes stuff it doesn’t surprise me, she’s seems like a total pro.
Dusktildawn48
Member
I've been saying this for years, these 2 shows are the greatest things ever put on TV.
DForce
Member
I thought it was strange the way the post started off, but if that wasn't your intent then I take it back.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
One thing that bothered me: when Saul tells his story about first meeting Walter White, it begins "2 years ago... "
I guess that's the correct timeline according to the show. But I hate it. It's far too narrow of a time gap. The way I prefer to read black-and-white events of Gene's life post-BB, it's at least 5 years later, preferably more. If it's only two years since he even first met Walter White (so, quite a trivially short time since the final episode of that series and his rush into hiding), then the sense of his long isolation and having to live his life for a time as the unassuming Gene is dulled quite a bit. It feels less significant that way. He looks much older than that, and I prefer to see him that way.
I guess that's the correct timeline according to the show. But I hate it. It's far too narrow of a time gap. The way I prefer to read black-and-white events of Gene's life post-BB, it's at least 5 years later, preferably more. If it's only two years since he even first met Walter White (so, quite a trivially short time since the final episode of that series and his rush into hiding), then the sense of his long isolation and having to live his life for a time as the unassuming Gene is dulled quite a bit. It feels less significant that way. He looks much older than that, and I prefer to see him that way.
bitbydeath
Member
You should check out Ozark, it’s even better IMO.
bitbydeath
Member
The only letdown with the ending is how it never resolved Kim’s situation. She just going back to that dull life?
bitbydeath
Member
He was absolutely brilliant, I’d like to know how they de-aged him because he looked like he hadn’t aged a day since BB.
Didn't she go back to practicing law? She said to Jimmy that her New Mexico bar license never expired.
bitbydeath
Member
I figured that was just about how she was able to get in and see him.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Member
The fact that he worked on one of my favorite shows The X-Files and made BB, BCS and El Camino makes him in top 10 show creators of all time. I'm really looking forward to his next thing
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Pegasus Actual
Member
OMG mirrored scenes from the beginning of the show during the finale! People smoking! Yes truly next level television! /s
Overall, it was a very solid show. The finale was good for the most part but as for the actual ending... it's a little silly. People don't take 80+ years (i.e. you're gonna die in there) in prison over 7 years. Especially not Saul. It's not the completion of a character arc. It's just silly. Of course, him getting the plea deal down that low to begin with is really stretching it.
Overall, it was a very solid show. The finale was good for the most part but as for the actual ending... it's a little silly. People don't take 80+ years (i.e. you're gonna die in there) in prison over 7 years. Especially not Saul. It's not the completion of a character arc. It's just silly. Of course, him getting the plea deal down that low to begin with is really stretching it.
Javthusiast
Banned
Earlier in the episode when Kim got the call about Jimmy's trial, we saw that she had gotten back into that line of work volunteering at the legal aid office. I took that as a sign that she was ready to assert herself more again, having endured her 'punishment'.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Her "dull life" never bothered me, despite how awkwardly heavy-handed some elements of those scenes were in making sure we see her coworkers as lame people.
The desperate fleeing from "ordinariness" is a big part of what turned Saul (and Kim, for a while) into a monster. They were so convinced that they could manipulate everything, take all possible shortcuts because they're more clever than everyone else. Even more clever than the poor older woman he so callously manipulated at the end, revealing the lie behind his good-guy facade in his dealings with the elderly in the past, when it happened to benefit him.
Gene couldn't handle being ordinary when given the new chance at life in hiding--he was just waiting to create a new scam again, and it took him exactly where he deserved. Kim was better in the end because she accpeted it--you don't even see her mocking or despising those coworkers, no rolled eyes as she turns away. After what she became with Jimmy, and seeing what she'd become, she changed.
She still found an outlet in that volunteering work, but I see no reason to believe that she'll become some high-powered lawyer again. It's not part of her redemption arc, probably could never be.
Thaedolus
Member
…did you miss both shows where he was absolutely complicit in the criminality and aided and abetted the death and destruction all around him?
bitbydeath
Member
Just found an interview from Rhea, it’s stated that it’s all open for interpretation but this is what she hopes for.
https://ew.com/tv/better-call-saul-rhea-seehorn-on-series-finale/
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I understand that characters and people in real life change, but intentionally getting 86yrs in prison seems a strech to far. I mean he went from getting back into the game, to trying to eacape, to getting caught, to "my lawyer will ream your ass" mode.
And then he decides to get the book thrown at him because he does not want kim to be sued into Oblivion for the rest of her life... What is annoying about this is that its not even confirmed Jimmy's 86yrs would save Kim, Leaving the viewer completly ignorant about this just seems completely unlike the show so far, Ive never felt misinformed or like ive only heard 1/4 of the story until this final episode.
When Jimmy was in the dumpster i was hoping he would escape with the hoover guy with Kim.
Or that he take the 7yrs and comes up with some good old slippin Jimmy way of saving Kim.
I know the ending we got was Jimmy fed up with his crimes and his personality and wanting to finally repent, that may be the reason for the story but as a last episode its a let down.
At least Walter white went out in style taking out his enemies , and pinkman got away with 1/2million to start of a new life in Alaska.
bitbydeath
Member
It did win her back though, before that point she wanted nothing to do with him.
I did wonder how that would work, the actor being dead and all.
Javthusiast
Banned
Perfect ending for this series.
Really hope as many as possible of the team stick together for whatever new show they come up with. They are 2 for 2 so far.
Either way whatever Gould and Gilligan do either together or seperately will be an automatic watch for me.
Really hope as many as possible of the team stick together for whatever new show they come up with. They are 2 for 2 so far.
Either way whatever Gould and Gilligan do either together or seperately will be an automatic watch for me.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
First thing I thought too, could of filmed something before he died or just not include the actor.
Yeah I suppose he was in good graces with Kim but what is it worth when the rest of his life is in prison without her.
It makes more sense for Jimmy to take the 7yrs and still have all the repenting stuff and getting Kim back.
The writters were smitten on this idea of Jimmy getting 86yrs, but it does not make a good ending.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yes its a Series finale that seems unfinished.
With Walt and Jessie we got pretty tied up and definitive endings.
I think another episode and more explanation is needed for this ending of BCS.
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Corpsepyre
Member
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
I don't see that at all, regarding her reaction to his shooting sign. It was a beautiful shared moment between them, and she wasn't rejecting it by not showing a sign of her own--her stare was something like peace, and renewed respect towards him.
In fact, they originally had her shooting the gesture back at him, as revealed in some interviews:
I agree with removing the gesture, because indeed that might have felt like Kim is going to get out there in the world and be a badass again as Jimmy and her used to do--and that's not at all where Kim's story goes. All the old ways of ruthless cleverness and scheming are over for her. In fact, the finger guns from Jimmy said this to me: "I'll always remember how great we were, how great you were, at the height of our game. But now I'm on this side of the fence paying my own penance for it, and you're on that side."
Yoboman
Member
Well said and good points
The show ended on the only selfless thing Jimmy ever did. There was always some ulterior motive or con in everything he did in BB and BCS, except for the ending
Fuz
Member
Anyway, fantastic ending, although a few things here and there do not convince me. No one would take a life sentence over 7 years, there's no way. I know the messages they wanted to send when writing it that way (doing something together with Kim and proving they're not always destructive, owning up his mistakes and all those little things you people already mentioned - it's very subtle and complex at the same time).
The cigarette scene was incredibly powerful, in any case. Getting to that point feel forced to me, but I can forgive it for such a poignant, poetic ending. It's one of the rare show endings that gives proper closure. All in all, BCS is one of the best things I've ever seen on a screen in my life. I won't start singing its praises because I just won't finish.
Walt and Jessie cameos are a waste of show's timing. They feel forced and just fan service. Jesse is just plain bad, he's too old, and I'm not sure if he didn't care anymore about the character or simply wasn't able get in character anymore. Walt was much better, he's a fantastic actor. Last flashback with Walt has a bit of meaning in presenting yet again Saul's lack of regrets.
In any case, the writers went the extra miles to writing Saul for us to dislike him in those last episodes. "No, you're not supposed to like him". I guess that the fact that Walt was higly liked until the end didn't sit right with them and didn't want to happen again. Sorry, you did your worst but I still like him!
The cigarette scene was incredibly powerful, in any case. Getting to that point feel forced to me, but I can forgive it for such a poignant, poetic ending. It's one of the rare show endings that gives proper closure. All in all, BCS is one of the best things I've ever seen on a screen in my life. I won't start singing its praises because I just won't finish.
Walt and Jessie cameos are a waste of show's timing. They feel forced and just fan service. Jesse is just plain bad, he's too old, and I'm not sure if he didn't care anymore about the character or simply wasn't able get in character anymore. Walt was much better, he's a fantastic actor. Last flashback with Walt has a bit of meaning in presenting yet again Saul's lack of regrets.
In any case, the writers went the extra miles to writing Saul for us to dislike him in those last episodes. "No, you're not supposed to like him". I guess that the fact that Walt was higly liked until the end didn't sit right with them and didn't want to happen again. Sorry, you did your worst but I still like him!
This is an important point. When Jimmy tried to straight himself up and went to law school, Chuck sabotaged him and pushed him back to Slippin' Jimmy. He never got help, compassion, trust. Of course he'll go back being a con-man, he's been pushed into it. He's not at fault as much as the writers want us to think.
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ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Walt's "you were always this way" is easily my favorite line.
lostinblue
Member
That's really well done, but imagine a Better Call Saul game made by the Phoenix Wright team.
Bragr
Member
This is the part of the ending that I didn't quite like. You could say she did stuff because of Saul, but Kim put herself in that position, and she was perfectly aware of who Saul was and accepted it.
Throughout the series, Kim did quite a lot of bullshit and bad stuff, and some of it she wanted to do. I felt the ending dismissed a lot of her complexity and she got off relatively free considering she confessed.
In the end, I took it as Saul taking life because he needed, at least once, to be a McGill, not Saul, he needed to be honest about his brother and what he did because it wrecked him morally, and he needed to tell Kim about what he did concerning his brother and Walter White.
But his brother was very cruel to him at times, and Kim did bad things too, the people he tried to do right by, weren't the best of people. Why sacrifice your life and live in prison because of that?