kraspkibble
Permabanned.
i saw on reddit that it's going to be 1hr 7 mins without adverts
edit: and IMDB is saying 46 minutes. so i don't know what is real.
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edit: and IMDB is saying 46 minutes. so i don't know what is real.
bitbydeath
Member
I keep waiting for the real reason to come out as to why they treated Howard like that since it seemed so unnecessary and out of character for them but it’s looking like it was just a plot device to make these final episodes happen.
Thaedolus
Member
They spell it out very clearly in the episode with his memorial. Jimmy tells Howard’s wife he was jealous of the approval Chuck had for Howard but never gave to Jimmy. And Howard spells out that Jimmy is just broken and can’t help himself. Kim said she thought it was too much fun to stop. Neither had empathy for him because they figured through all this fucking around with him he’d be fine, he was rich and seemingly living the dream. They didn’t know or willingly ignored that he had martial issues or depression or otherwise was a normal human until that final encounter, and by then it was too late because another situation they caused came back and murdered him.I keep waiting for the real reason to come out as to why they treated Howard like that since it seemed so unnecessary and out of character for them but it’s looking like it was just a plot device to make these final episodes happen.
So it’s a combination of jealousy, naivety, callousness, corruption (working for the cartel guy), and selfishness. It’s all shown in the show why and was wrapped up before the flash forward. Now we’re seeing the fallout…
btw:
Kim getting fucked by the dope going “yep yep yep…” was simultaneously one of the funniest and excruciating parts of the episode…oh my god…
WoodyStare
Member
Another excellent episode. These last few have been around 70-80 minutes (with ads) and they’ve really done a phenomenal job wrapping everything up. The scenes where Kim speaks to Saul in her office, telling Howard’s wife the truth and crying on the bus were all heartbreaking to watch. Also when Saul comes dangerously close to strangling Marion with the telephone cord, such a tense moment.
A lot is going to happen in the final episode, but I’ve no doubt they’re going to stick the landing perfectly like they did with Breaking Bad. Gonna miss this show.
A lot is going to happen in the final episode, but I’ve no doubt they’re going to stick the landing perfectly like they did with Breaking Bad. Gonna miss this show.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
If Jimmy just ends up in prison its a bit of cop out.
I suppose breaking bads ended in a pretty obvious way, with walts death.
I was kind of thinking kim and saul would get back together, but now that does not seem possible. I wonder if Jimmy has and escape plan, though its clear that he is fed up with his cinabon life and with Kim saying he should turn himself in I think Jimmy may want to "do the right thing" for once.
But then again he did run away when the biddy hit her panic button and the cops were called, so maybe Jimmy still does not want to go to prison, as shitty as Jimmy's life is now its a hell of a lot better then prison.
I suppose breaking bads ended in a pretty obvious way, with walts death.
I was kind of thinking kim and saul would get back together, but now that does not seem possible. I wonder if Jimmy has and escape plan, though its clear that he is fed up with his cinabon life and with Kim saying he should turn himself in I think Jimmy may want to "do the right thing" for once.
But then again he did run away when the biddy hit her panic button and the cops were called, so maybe Jimmy still does not want to go to prison, as shitty as Jimmy's life is now its a hell of a lot better then prison.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
(I guess we can drop spoilers now? surely anyone who hasn't watched the latest wouldn't click on this thread now. On weeks when I had to wait a night or two to watch it, I avoided this thread like a plague.) That moment holding the phone cord was fascinating, because I felt fully that Saul was capable of doing it, and that would have felt 100% implausible at the beginning of the series, or even just a season ago.
After all, despite the constant scamming Jimmy was always the nursing home laywer, the guy who apparently had compassion for the elderly and wasn't completely manipulating them, even though his actions were also for his personal gain and freely used his ability to use their trust & control their reactions. The casting and writing was superb this season with the choice to have him essentially take total advantage of the elderly Carol Burnett, in way that felt natural at each step but ends up with him holding a phone cord menacingly in front of her. I didn't originally think they could pull off the total "breaking bad" transformation on Saul, but he's clearly no longer a good guy in any way. After he refused to let things go with the cancer patient and even decided to physically pocket the watches (against the very rules he set for his underlings, who were supposed to photograph only and disturb nothing of value inside), his willingness to do anything to keep his scam going made it feel legitimately intense when Marion confronts him.
Kim on the other hand has a redemption of sorts, and I loved the way they handled it. Her average life now is sort of like a self-imposed punishment, but it's also not entirely just a fake--I think she legitimately wants to be an ordinary person who is as powerless as everyone else around her, and who can live well enough with small patio parties where you debate Miracle Whip, instead of being the Jimmy-inspired lawyer whose power meant manipulating everyone as needed. I hope her tears on the bus are the final image we have of her, because it feels complete to me as a story for her, and it's a greater redemption than anyone else has had at the end of this fictional universe.
bitbydeath
Member
I don’t think that’s a good enough reason for them targeting him specifically, Kim put Jimmy on track a few times to keep it continuing, and they’re smart enough to know that they were ruining him permanently, even Mike pointed out at setting his murder up as a suicide is where their plan was heading, and Howard was always shown as being nothing but nice to them all throughout which it seems like they’re trying to retcon, even in the face of Chuck.
It could have been written a lot better, like having them convinced it was Howard who was feeding Chuck lies to get them thrown out of HHM.
Having fun could apply if it were all done in the heat of the moment, but everything was articulacy planned over weeks, possibly months.
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partime
Member
You know he'll change his identity again, as it was hinted when someone noticed Saul at Cinnabon. We will end up with a final scene of him somewhere in the middle of nowhere starting a new life. I hope I'm wrong.
Madflavor
Member
Walt = Death
Jesse = Freedom
Jimmy = Justice (aka prison)
I feel like Jimmy being caught and sentenced to prison is the logical way this is going to end. He certainly can escape, but at this rate it really needs to feel earned if they go that route. My betting money is on Jimmy being caught or giving himself up, but does something in the process to sorta redeem himself.
newtypepilot
Member
but man, what a depressing episode. Kim living the most boring, mundane life as sort of self-imposed punishment. However, after the phone call with Jimmy, she does finally turn herself in, as well as let out emotionally when she burst into tears during the bus scene.
Is Gene trying to get himself caught? Leaving traces of a break in, overstaying for too long, taking the guy's watches (when the goal was to take pics of valuable personal information, not steal things physically). Such a sloppy job. But then again, there have been multiple instances in the show where Jimmy gets in trouble because he underestimates things.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Did anyone catch what Gene/Saul was saying in the brief preview clip for next week (shot of crashed car)? Something about "max extract pressure..."?
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Thaedolus
Member
The Kim portions were so incredibly well done, and the Gene portions had me on edge thinking
he was either going to kill the mark to get away, or the mom with the garroting it looked like he was about to go through with. I think his not actually killing anyone himself shows he’s not gone full Walt, I bet he turns himself in or gets caught too.
He was calling the vacuum repairman. Color shot.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I would prefer that over him in prison.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Check this out
That made me wonder, why was Kim living with the dope, anyway? Is it part of the cover that is her new life? Why does it necessitate being with a man with whom she has clearly nothing in common? I don't get it.
Thaedolus
Member
Probably just a part of her cover, or she’s set her sights low because she’s dejected, and a creative decision to twist the knife and show just how bad her situation is/how unhappy she is. btw they’re just dating he left afterward
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Fuz
Member
Wasn't expecting to see Kim again. She still keep having rash decisions.
They've gone to a lot of work to... normalize her.
They've gone to a lot of work to... normalize her.
Cover? She's using her real name.
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Sybrix
Member
It’s self imposed punishment, she has a completely mundane life and in a loveless relationship with an idiot who thinks Cool Whip is Mayo and humps her like a plank of wood saying yep yep yep.
She does this to herself, notice also she makes no decisions at all, she leaves it to other people, she is nothing like Kim Wexler Attorney-at-law
Thaedolus
Member
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Kim crying was one of the most important moments in the history of the series. It’s the only time a character in this universe has ever shown a modicum of remorse. It’s the culmination of 6 seasons of terrible stuff coming all out at once.
And to think all of this, every bit of it including everything in Breaking Bad all started because some wannabe lawyer couldn’t get his brothers approval. That’s what this all started with. An insecure man with family issues. It was the seed that grew into everything.
I think Saul has gone way past the point of redemption. I hope he goes down now. He’s just a total loser. At least Walt ended things by wanting to save Jesse. Saul has been completely consumed by his inner demons and is a lost soul now.
And to think all of this, every bit of it including everything in Breaking Bad all started because some wannabe lawyer couldn’t get his brothers approval. That’s what this all started with. An insecure man with family issues. It was the seed that grew into everything.
I think Saul has gone way past the point of redemption. I hope he goes down now. He’s just a total loser. At least Walt ended things by wanting to save Jesse. Saul has been completely consumed by his inner demons and is a lost soul now.
Thaedolus
Member
I agree about Kim completely, but Saul I sorta disagree with. You see him try to go straight and constantly get fucked over. Yes it all comes back to Chuck, and yes he spirals into Saul and does illicit shit and people pay the price, but he tried to make amends with Chuck and Chuck practically spit in his face. Kim encouraged his slippin Jimmy side because that’s when she was happy with him. He’s definitely flawed but the show has him battling those demons while also being pushed to embrace them by the flawed characters around him. And while he could’ve simply strangled the mom in this episode, he didn’t.
I think the contrast here is Jimmy has people pushing him to embrace his dark side throughout the show while Walt was the opposite. He was given an opportunity to have his treatment paid for right at the beginning and rejected it. He’s got people like Jesse and Skylar urging him to quit the whole time but he rejects it and wants to be Heisenberg. Jimmy doesn’t want to be Saul or Gene and tries not to be, but does because his brother is a cunt to him whenever he achieves success legitimately and his love encourages him to do their little schemes. I’d like to see him get some sort of redemption, like finally turning himself in. Maybe the final shot is him and Kim split screened in jail cells.
Also I think Walt was acting equally out of revenge as much as wanting to save Jesse.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I agree that Jimmy is a better person on the inside than Walt was. I think Walt is objectively worse and has no conscience. I think Jimmy still had a conscience. But he’s just so pathetic. I wouldn’t even consider him turning himself in redemption at this point. It would require something I don’t even think is possible. The only reason Walt was able to redeem himself was because Jesse existed. Without Jesse Walt wouldn’t have had much of an opportunity. Jimmy’s only opportunity is redeeming himself through Kim, but he lost that chance once she confessed.
Thaedolus
Member
I’d still say the fact he never murdered anyone- much less multiple people, including the mom in this last episode- makes him better than Walt could ever redeem himself to be. Yes, his actions led to people dying, but he never pulls the trigger himself. At least not yet. But who knows where they go with it? Maybe they stick with the contrast between the two leads and Jimmy decides to go out in a blaze of glory Butch Cassidy style
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
When I say redeem With Walt I more mean get me to root for him again, not really getting his character back in a morally good place. Walt was too long gone for that. But his final chapter was a cool moment for him, sacrificing himself and taking out those who wronged him and freeing Jesse. But Walt was still a terrible person. But barring Jimmy sacrificing himself to save Kim, I can’t see myself rooting for him in this final episode. And I don’t even see a scenario in which he could save Kim. He can’t pin the crimes on him because she already confessed. The cartel stuff is done with so he’s not going to save her from any kind of violence. There’s no bad guy out there left for him to bring down in one epic moment like Walt did. As it stands right now I want to see him behind bars for a long time. He deserves it.
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AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Not got time to catch up on the thread but that was a hell of an episode. The contrast between the scenes of Kim breaking down and Jimmy ripping the phone cord out of the wall was brilliant. One person whose overwhelming guilt finally overrode her stony exterior and another whose greed-fuelled inner demon finally broke through. There's no redemption for Jimmy now, he had his chance to get out of the game quietly and blew it because he couldn't put down the grift.
Awesome stuff, so curious to see what Vince does next but surely it's time to put this world to bed.
Awesome stuff, so curious to see what Vince does next but surely it's time to put this world to bed.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Member
Even though I love BB, Better Call Saul is the better show. I found the side characters as interesting as Saul and Kim. What's your issue with Better Call Saul?
thefool
Member
All the cartel recycled bullshit.
The narrative sidestepping to focus on random lalo vs gus and mike building a lab was wholeheartedly unnecessary. We missed the possible dandiness and quirkiness of Saul as a lawyer to all kinds of random bullshit that, by the end of BCS, don't really add anything to this story thematically.
The narrative sidestepping to focus on random lalo vs gus and mike building a lab was wholeheartedly unnecessary. We missed the possible dandiness and quirkiness of Saul as a lawyer to all kinds of random bullshit that, by the end of BCS, don't really add anything to this story thematically.
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Ironbunny
Member
Yea have to agree. It gave as Nacho Varga and for me the most shocking end for a charecter...and most bad ass.
Thaedolus
Member
I thought it kept the tension ratcheted up throughout the series beyond Jimmy’s antics, was entertaining, explains a lot of backstory to Breaking Bad in an awesome way which makes you view it in a new light, and directly tied into how Saul turned into what we see in BB after Howard gets caught up into it and immediately murdered.
thefool
Member
Season 4 did a terrific job in transitioning Jimmy to Saul.
If anything, i would call it lazy to use these tangent bb plots to push Kim away from him as the justification that makes him more unhinged. Its so lazy they just time-jumped straight to it.
And I disagree with the tension. We know how all these events conclude, i even think they are almost contradictory with the structure and relations we've seen in bb.
01011001
Member
Season 4 did a terrific job in transitioning Jimmy to Saul.
If anything, i would call it lazy to use these tangent bb plots to push Kim away from him as the justification that makes him more unhinged. Its so lazy they just time-jumped straight to it.
And I disagree with the tension. We know how all these events conclude, i even think they are almost contradictory with the structure and relations we've seen in bb.
what you forget is that the last season of Breaking Bad made Saul transition back to Jimmy, going so far that if you watch the last scene of him in Breaking Bad you'd think you're watching a scene from the first 2 seasons BCS.
the way he talks and handles himself is very Jimmy McGill-esque in that scene
he was basically scared straight in the final BB season, Saul went back into his shell... and now he's coming back out
CrankyJay™
Member
I thought maybe that Kim was an interesting character but after this latest episode you totally get the sense she’s just a completely amorphous personality that mirrors whoever she hangs around. With Jimmy she mirrored and amplified his cons.
In Florida she’s just as boring and mundane as her coworkers.
It’s a pretty sad existence.
In Florida she’s just as boring and mundane as her coworkers.
It’s a pretty sad existence.
Badlucktroll
Member
Vince Gilligan Says ‘Better Call Saul’ Will Be Last Show In ‘Breaking Bad’ Universe: “You Can’t Keep Putting All Your Money On Red 21” – TCA
The Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul universe is coming to end, according to co-showrunners Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould.
deadline.com
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Amazing work on that, wish someone would make it a runnable ROM so I could load it on my hacked original GB (some bits of that video aren't really possible on the hardware, however).
End of an era tonight, if I find time to watch it. Otherwise I'll stay far away from this thread an extra day.
WoodyStare
Member
Wow.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I thought it was a satisfying ending that fit everything the show had laid out up to that point.
Jimmy chased acceptance and approval of his peers for the entire series, and he was never able to get it from Howard. Was never able to get it from Chuck. He was never really respected by Mike or Gus or anyone else. But in the end, he got someone's approval: Kim's. By doing the right thing and taking responsibility like she did. I think it was a nice touch. And also having a flashback with Chuck. (btw brilliant editing with the exit sign buzzing--reference to Chuck's phobia of electricity).
I think it was a very appropriate end for him. He didn't deserve to get off in 7 years for all the awful things he did. And he didn't have a big sobfest, because let's face it, he also would have chosen to avoid capture altogether if he could. He stayed true to his character. But he did have remorse for Chuck and Howard, and got emotional when he spoke about Chuck. Chuck and Kim were the only two people he truly cared about. He's right where he belongs for the rest of his life, with his conscience a lot cleaner.
I think it was a very appropriate end for him. He didn't deserve to get off in 7 years for all the awful things he did. And he didn't have a big sobfest, because let's face it, he also would have chosen to avoid capture altogether if he could. He stayed true to his character. But he did have remorse for Chuck and Howard, and got emotional when he spoke about Chuck. Chuck and Kim were the only two people he truly cared about. He's right where he belongs for the rest of his life, with his conscience a lot cleaner.
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DForce
Member
The flashbacks really put everything into perspective.
Mike and Walter both had regrets, but Saul didn't have any.
"Slippin' Jimmy with a law degree is like a chimp with a machine gun. The law is sacred. If you abuse that power people get hurt." - Chuck McGill
He abused his power and people were hurt. That's something he didn't want to see happen to Kim.
Mike and Walter both had regrets, but Saul didn't have any.
"Slippin' Jimmy with a law degree is like a chimp with a machine gun. The law is sacred. If you abuse that power people get hurt." - Chuck McGill
He abused his power and people were hurt. That's something he didn't want to see happen to Kim.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
minor accurate call I made here
As for the conclusion, I wish it were 30 minutes or so longer given how much happens, but it completes things well. If you showed that final scene of the entire series to me during season 1 or 2, I would’ve thought: no way, how could the show get from here to there convincingly? But they pulled it off, quite a huge journey for the characters.
the two of them smoking at the end was both perfect and deeply sad. The many memorable shots of them smoking against a wall in the early seasons feel like a lifetime ago now
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
.
Im not sure how i feel about the ending, I get that Jimmy got 86 years to save Kim, but I just think he could of done it without having to die in prison.
I mean for all we know hamlins wife will still go after kim.
Im not sure how i feel about the ending, I get that Jimmy got 86 years to save Kim, but I just think he could of done it without having to die in prison.
I mean for all we know hamlins wife will still go after kim.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Member
Well that was a great ending to the Breaking Bad Universe
Sybrix
Member
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
BETTER CALL SAUL
Watching this clip is so great now, so many easter eggs we now know what they mean:
Guess I got what I deserved
Kept you waiting there too long, my love
All that time, without a word
Did you really think that I'd forget
And regret
The special love I have for you
My baby blue
All those days became so long
Did you really think I'd do you wrong?
Dixie, when I let you go
Thought you'd realize I would know
I would show
The special love I have for you
My baby blue
What can I do? What can I say?
Except I want you by my side
How can I show you? Show me the way
Don't you know the times I've tried?
Guess that's all I have to say
Except the feeling just grows stronger everyday
Just one thing before I go
Take good care, baby, let me know
Let it grow
The special love you have for me
My Dixie dear
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Spoilers below, go watch the damn episode before coming here.
He didn't do it in order to save Kim from the lawsuit. The whole ruse was to get Kim in the courtroom so she could hear his confession. He was finally accountable and won her respect.
Near the very end in the prison yard, was there some symbolism in the shot with the vertical dividing line between Jimmy and Kim? Like she never lost her conscience or crossed the line the way Jimmy did?
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