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Why not just give us the Xmen already?

Toons

Member
Because it is sexist. Xpronoun. Xperson. Xxe. Could be the new Xthey/them movie.

Lol, yall don't even realize they've already been referred to as the X men by name in the MCU.... you guys show your asses a lot with takes like thus.

To answer TCs question,
1. The old cast is still under contract and Disney is waiting for those to expire for obvious reasons.
2. Kang is awesome and just because you dont like him doesn't mean he isn't an interesting villain worth seeing on screen
3. The X men shouldn't be rushed and should be gradually introduced which as already begun happening
4. The X men have always been socially progressive af so if yall don't like seeing gay, black, Asians, competent powerful women etc im not sure why you'd even want them?
 

ManaByte

Member
Disney thought they could just use any characters to continue the momentum of the MCU through this phase, and the last. With the plummeting box office for Ant Man, they are probably realising that they can't just shovel out any old shit for people to watch... I'd imagine a lot of conversations are going on about moving both X-men and F4 forward, given that without them, the next year or so will probably tank the whole damn enterprise. I very much doubt The Marvels is going to keep things going well, and even Guardians 3 isn't a slam dunk at the box office.

They can't move F4 forward. It's already been delayed with the director drama and won't even begin filming until early next year. It was originally next November, but Deadpool took its release date.
 

bitbydeath

Member
The latest Ant-Man movie hasn't done very well in the box office, which is what is prompting this discussion.

I think its crazy Disney spent over 70 billion dollars buying 21 Century Fox, 6 years ago, and has done almost nothing with the IP they acquired.*

*Exept Avatar, which was already in pre-production when they bought it.
They did use the IP to make Disney+ a strong competitor in the streaming market. (Outside of the US)
 

GeekyDad

Member
The latest Ant-Man movie hasn't done very well in the box office, which is what is prompting this discussion.

...
We must be getting news from quite different sources. My understanding is it has begun to dip, but that was to be expected. Its first-week sales "surpassed studio projections."

 

FunkMiller

Member
They can't move F4 forward. It's already been delayed with the director drama and won't even begin filming until early next year. It was originally next November, but Deadpool took its release date.

X-Men is way more popular anyway. If they can get the hype rolling for that, it'll mitigate the current dogshit line up they've got.
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
We must be getting news from quite different sources. My understanding is it has begun to dip, but that was to be expected. Its first-week sales "surpassed studio projections."

It had a huge opening but the worst drop for a Marvel movie. It currently sits at $373 million worldwide on a $200 million budget (not including advertising, estimated). That's bad because they only get a certain percentage of the box office gross, which means they may just break even on this one.
 

BeardGawd

Member
Aren't they wokifying it anyways? It won't be remotely recognizable as X-Men once they're done going maximum woke with it.
How can they possibly wokify X-Men? Out of all comics the X-Men has the most diverse cast of any comic books. Everyone feels natural and nothing feels forced. Which is why I love it. You have amazing original black characters, Russians, Cajuns, Asians, Jews and kickass women. Hell the leader is a Paraplegic.

What is there to wokify?
 

NickFire

Member
It is funny that over the past twenty or so years we have had an absolute shitload of X-Men films and yet it's only taken a short break for people to start asking where they are.
It’s adding them to MCU that gets us excited. Bringing the broader MCU together finally.
 

Doom85

Member
How can they possibly wokify X-Men? Out of all comics the X-Men has the most diverse cast of any comic books. Everyone feels natural and nothing feels forced. Which is why I love it. You have amazing original black characters, Russians, Cajuns, Asians, Jews and kickass women. Hell the leader is a Paraplegic.

What is there to wokify?

Chris Claremont even said when he started his run (which includes such iconic arcs such as Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past) that he brought in new members mostly from different countries and ethnicities since (at the time) X-men was a metaphor for racial discrimination so he felt having a team work together despite coming from so many different places was an important aspect.

He even spoke in 2021 about the importance of diversity inclusion in X-men in 2021.

The fact that anyone would complain about “woke shit” when it comes to X-men of all properties just baffles me. Then again, people acted shocked when Black Panther movies comment on politics (also, Stan Lee created the character upon discovering he had plenty of black people reading his comics and he felt like he was ignoring them by having no black leads, another comment that if he had said today would be labeled “woke” by some) so it shows how little some people seem to be about the themes of these series that have been around for decades.

People complain about politics in the comics movies. When it’s pointed out the comics have them, they then try to say only modern comics have them. Then it’s pointed out comics have had politics in them for decades (Green Lantern/Green Arrow from the 70’s was far less subtle about its politics compared to most comics even today, and yet it’s consider a classic run). So then they claim it’s the new characters being introduced for political reasons that is “ruining things”, and so it can be pointed out Black Panther was created for these “political“ reasons, and Green Lantern John Stewart was introduced in the aforementioned run and his first issue was all about civil rights. Bendis‘ creation of Miles Morales, who became the lead of one of the most beloved Spidey films ever, was partially inspired from his daughter wanting more black superheroes to follow. And of course, the very concept of new characters also taking the mantle has been a thing in Marvel and DC since the 50’s.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Chris Claremont even said when he started his run (which includes such iconic arcs such as Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past) that he brought in new members mostly from different countries and ethnicities since (at the time) X-men was a metaphor for racial discrimination so he felt having a team work together despite coming from so many different places was an important aspect.

He even spoke in 2021 about the importance of diversity inclusion in X-men in 2021.

The fact that anyone would complain about “woke shit” when it comes to X-men of all properties just baffles me. Then again, people acted shocked when Black Panther movies comment on politics (also, Stan Lee created the character upon discovering he had plenty of black people reading his comics and he felt like he was ignoring them by having no black leads, another comment that if he had said today would be labeled “woke” by some) so it shows how little some people seem to be about the themes of these series that have been around for decades.

People complain about politics in the comics movies. When it’s pointed out the comics have them, they then try to say only modern comics have them. Then it’s pointed out comics have had politics in them for decades (Green Lantern/Green Arrow from the 70’s was far less subtle about its politics compared to most comics even today, and yet it’s consider a classic run). So then they claim it’s the new characters being introduced for political reasons that is “ruining things”, and so it can be pointed out Black Panther was created for these “political“ reasons, and Green Lantern John Stewart was introduced in the aforementioned run and his first issue was all about civil rights. Bendis‘ creation of Miles Morales, who became the lead of one of the most beloved Spidey films ever, was partially inspired from his daughter wanting more black superheroes to follow. And of course, the very concept of new characters also taking the mantle has been a thing in Marvel and DC since the 50’s.

It baffles me how ANYONE can have problems with a black lead or whatever. Someone even complained about a black helsman in Star Trek Picard ... I don't get it? And there's been more white male captains than minority ones in the lead in ST. Someone said they were so happy a white man is the lead in Strange New Worlds... When they've MOSTLY been the leads.
 

Saber

Member
How can they possibly wokify X-Men? Out of all comics the X-Men has the most diverse cast of any comic books. Everyone feels natural and nothing feels forced. Which is why I love it. You have amazing original black characters, Russians, Cajuns, Asians, Jews and kickass women. Hell the leader is a Paraplegic.

What is there to wokify?

Its not difficult really. Put the main villain to be a racist or against trans people, make most of the cast female(note that X-men itself has a great amount of female characters), make the leader of X-men non-binary or using pronoums or whatever, make Rogue lesbian(because who isn't nowadays), total desexualization, the list goes on.

The point you said though is spot on. X-men is diverse and it works great because it was never the focus of the series.
Xavier is paraplegic because of his powers but again it was never his point. If you ask someone who knows X-men they will tell that Xavier is a phsychic mutant that aways fights for the mutants, to the point of sacrificing his personnal life. Nobody gonna say that Xavier is here to prove paraplegic people can archieve great things if they work hard.

Also to answer your recent post about "problem with black lead", Storm is the second in command of the X-men and nobody has any problem with her. She is a great character and I love her, I rather prefer her being the leader of X-men 1000 times than Wolverine. So this is clearly not a problem here.
 
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Azurro

Member
Some of y'all need help. Kevin Feige isn't going "woke" ... He's the HEAD of Marvel ... I can't believe some people are so upset about female heroes being introduced in Marvel when it was mainly white male lead heroes in the MCU until T'Challa and Carol came along.

I have to commend your ability to remain absolutely blind to anything woke. Marvel isn't going woke, they are just making their movies following guidelines from postmodernist ideas of gender roles, and also following the tenets of critical race theory and intersectionality. But nope, that's not woke AT ALL. No, no, it's not happening, keep on going, Feige isn't going woke, it's PURELY a coincidence.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I have to commend your ability to remain absolutely blind to anything woke. Marvel isn't going woke, they are just making their movies following guidelines from postmodernist ideas of gender roles, and also following the tenets of critical race theory and intersectionality. But nope, that's not woke AT ALL. No, no, it's not happening, keep on going, Feige isn't going woke, it's PURELY a coincidence.

I stopped reading at "critical race theory" ... If you make up your own definition of that term, because you don't know what it means or is, then everything after that is culture war nonsense.
 

Azurro

Member
I stopped reading at "critical race theory" ... If you make up your own definition of that term, because you don't know what it means or is, then everything after that is culture war nonsense.

"Critical race theory is a cross-disciplinary examination of how laws, social and political movements, and media shape, and are shaped by, social conceptions of race and ethnicity."

Marvel keeps casting their directors and actors based on their standing on the crt totem. White men have to be either evil or a ridiculous doofus, women can't ever be taught anything by a man, you have stupid actors like the fat guy that did Namor because of representation, you have a black girl replacing Iron Man, why women are replacing men in the MCU and so on and so forth.

Just because you don't want to call it woke doesn't mean that that's exactly what's happening. And the box office is suffering as a result.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
"Critical race theory is a cross-disciplinary examination of how laws, social and political movements, and media shape, and are shaped by, social conceptions of race and ethnicity."

Marvel keeps casting their directors and actors based on their standing on the crt totem. White men have to be either evil or a ridiculous doofus, women can't ever be taught anything by a man, you have stupid actors like the fat guy that did Namor because of representation, you have a black girl replacing Iron Man, why women are replacing men in the MCU and so on and so forth.

Just because you don't want to call it woke doesn't mean that that's exactly what's happening. And the box office is suffering as a result.

Umm... No. The box office is suffering because of bad writing/direction. Like Love and Thunder... Too jokey and not enough time for us to get invested in the characters... Arcs weren't fleshed out... Comedy kept undercutting the serious moments.

And the definition of CRT and then your explanation of its implementation are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! CRT doesn't say that white men are evil or that there's a totem pole of CRT. That's a certain political talking point. Not at all what the COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY curriculum teaches.

And Riri Williams isn't replacing Iron Man. No more than Steel replaced Superman.

And I don't understand HOW you call Tenoch Huerta "fat"

k44Qtcm.png
 

Azurro

Member
I don't have time to post something detailed, but you and I know that the Twnoch dude was so out of shape they CGId him, that image of him is CGI.

And I see why you are so sensitive about it. Are you indoctrinating students at university as a professor? Or drinking the Kool aid as a student?
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I don't have time to post something detailed, but you and I know that the Twnoch dude was so out of shape they CGId him, that image of him is CGI.

And I see why you are so sensitive about it. Are you indoctrinating students at university as a professor? Or drinking the Kool aid as a student?


I'm 48. Dammit Jim, I'm a writer, not a professor!
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Aren't you a little too old to be a fan of that stuff? You are almost 50, it's time to stop thinking you are a victim.

WTH are you talking about? There's people older than me on this board who are gamers, sci-fi fans, comic book fans, etc.
 

Sleepwalker

Member
All the new characters suck ass so I have no hope for whatever iteration of x men they create.

In fact I remember some controversy around the name because it had the word MEN in it not too long ago. So maybe theyll just be called mutants or team x or whatever bullshit lol.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
You know what I'm talking about, you are basically the unofficial defender of woke on NeoGAF. I thought you were 16 or something similar, but you are almost 50. Good lord man, time to grow up.

Umm... Ok? Who pissed in your Cheerios, brother?

I honestly don't have a problem with you. We disagree A LOT but it's whatever. Healthy debate is good.
 

Blade2.0

Member
I don't care about Kang.
Don't care about Secret Wars, the Young Avengers, or whoever else they gonna feature in Phase 5 and 6.
Why drag this shit out with mediocre characters and villains no one cares about for another 3 years.

Why not just give the people what they want, already?
We're already getting Hugh back in Deadpool 3. Calm your tits
 

pramod

Member
So one big difference between the Fox Xmen films and whatever MCU Xmen is going to be is the relationship between normal people and the "supes", which the Fox films focus on and kinda grounds them in some sort of realism, while the MCU has abandoned that approach long ago. The MCU is this weird universe where people are aware they are living among swarms of Godlike beings, and yet still somehow carry on with their lives like nothing has changed. So a lot of these Xmen storylines dealing with prejudice etc will not make any sense in the MCU. "Normal" people are a big part of the Fox movies(they were the main baddies for at least 3 of them), while in the MCU they are pretty irrelavant, are either just love interests or relatives of the heroes.
 
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bitbydeath

Member
I stopped reading at "critical race theory" ... If you make up your own definition of that term, because you don't know what it means or is, then everything after that is culture war nonsense.
You gotta admit that ending of She-Hulk was pretty fucked up. They essentially threw away the entire season’s plot just to lash out and attack their audience.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
You gotta admit that ending of She-Hulk was pretty fucked up. They essentially threw away the entire season’s plot just to lash out and attack their audience.

That's true. The ending was ass. Basically the best parts of She-Hulk were Smart Hulk, Wong, Madisynn and Daredevil. Maslany did a great job as She-Hulk but the writing was incredibly weak for her.
 

Scotty W

Member
I've been assuming it's a severe case of decision paralysis, they just don't know what to do with these characters after the Fox films. Re-launching the X-Men will have to be a major undertaking, both as a set of creative projects and a major marketing push, and there will be high expectations and plenty can go wrong. Plus Disney and Marvel have made a success out of the MCU by taking middling characters and making them popular and relevant, so the prospect of having to work with a established franchise like the X-Men is giving them more cold feet.

On top of all that they have to cast some major characters who will just be compared unfavorably to Hugh Jackman, Patrick Stewart, and Ian McKellen, however iffy those Fox films actually were.
Creative bankruptcy is no obstacle to Hollywood. If they wanted to do a sequel or reboot, there would be 20 scripts by next week. Heck, I bet there are 20 scripts already.
 

bitbydeath

Member
Creative bankruptcy is no obstacle to Hollywood. If they wanted to do a sequel or reboot, there would be 20 scripts by next week. Heck, I bet there are 20 scripts already.
And they no doubt all suck.
I hated how She-Hulk tried to make it so mutants were already commonplace, the best move forward IMO, for why they were never involved before would be because they’ve already been captured on Slave Island, and are considered too dangerous to leave.


images
 
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BlackTron

Member
"Critical race theory is a cross-disciplinary examination of how laws, social and political movements, and media shape, and are shaped by, social conceptions of race and ethnicity."

Marvel keeps casting their directors and actors based on their standing on the crt totem. White men have to be either evil or a ridiculous doofus, women can't ever be taught anything by a man, you have stupid actors like the fat guy that did Namor because of representation, you have a black girl replacing Iron Man, why women are replacing men in the MCU and so on and so forth.
And the definition of CRT and then your explanation of its implementation are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! CRT doesn't say that white men are evil or that there's a totem pole of CRT. That's a certain political talking point. Not at all what the COLLEGE/UNIVERSITY curriculum teaches.

Um, he knows that. He pointed out that its implementation is based on their standing on the "CRT totem". Nowhere did he suggest that it's being taught in university that white men are bad or whatever. Although, it might even be taught THAT some people think that, because included in the definition of CRT is literally studying the relationship between race and politics.
 
How can they possibly wokify X-Men? Out of all comics the X-Men has the most diverse cast of any comic books. Everyone feels natural and nothing feels forced. Which is why I love it. You have amazing original black characters, Russians, Cajuns, Asians, Jews and kickass women. Hell the leader is a Paraplegic.

What is there to wokify?
Let’s see:
- Make Jean Grey or Cyclops or Wolverine black.
- Make Professor X a lesbian.
- Make Storm the leader of the X-Men while Cyclops is weak and made fun of.

So there are ways.
 

Scotty W

Member
And they no doubt all suck.
I hated how She-Hulk tried to make it so mutants were already commonplace, the best move forward IMO, for why they were never involved before would be because they’ve already been captured on Slave Island, and are considered too dangerous to leave.


images
They wouldn’t all suck, the good ones would never get made because they weren’t woke.

The best xmen is the tv series in your image. If they just did that but with blood and guts I’d be happy.
 

bitbydeath

Member
They wouldn’t all suck, the good ones would never get made because they weren’t woke.

The best xmen is the tv series in your image. If they just did that but with blood and guts I’d be happy.
Agreed, but they need to explain why they never fought Thanos, such as Slave Island but I fully expect it’ll either go unmentioned or the Eternals route of, nah… we couldn’t be bothered saving the universe that time.
 

Doom85

Member
Blasphemy

Season 5 What GIF by The Office

No, it’s called understanding the characters. Storm should always be in charge should Scott not be available at the moment. Honestly, where I left off reading X-men comics, I was getting fed up with how petty Logan was becoming. Dude doesn’t give Scott any forgiveness for his actions while under the Phoenix influence despite him forgiving Jean for far worse shit when she was the Phoenix (I guess mass murder is okay when the murderer gets your dick hard, eh Logan?), and then he lies to Hank and Kitty about Scott killing Xavier of his own free will. At least they call him out on it when the truth comes out about the Phoenix being involved. Logan also casually suggested killing Hope to solve the Phoenix issue despite this being the Marvel universe with tons of magical and technological solutions that don’t involve murdering a teenager. Also never mind the fact that Tony Stark was partially responsible for a lot of the recent Phoenix mess yet suffered no punishment for it (Scott even calls the Avengers out on this when they try to arrest him as Tony is standing right there amongst them).

Maybe he’s gotten better since, one can hope. He needs to get over his interest in Jean too, she’s sucked as a character past the Dark Phoenix Saga and serves just to continue the long played out feud between Logan and Scott. You know who Logan should end up with? Storm. She’s an actually interesting person as opposed to Jean whose main shtick is constantly dying and reviving (I remember Astonishing X-men even mocking her for that). Hell, Hugh Jackman might agree, given that outtake where he kisses Halle Berry when shooting Days of Future Past.
 
No, it’s called understanding the characters. Storm should always be in charge should Scott not be available at the moment. Honestly, where I left off reading X-men comics, I was getting fed up with how petty Logan was becoming. Dude doesn’t give Scott any forgiveness for his actions while under the Phoenix influence despite him forgiving Jean for far worse shit when she was the Phoenix (I guess mass murder is okay when the murderer gets your dick hard, eh Logan?), and then he lies to Hank and Kitty about Scott killing Xavier of his own free will. At least they call him out on it when the truth comes out about the Phoenix being involved. Logan also casually suggested killing Hope to solve the Phoenix issue despite this being the Marvel universe with tons of magical and technological solutions that don’t involve murdering a teenager. Also never mind the fact that Tony Stark was partially responsible for a lot of the recent Phoenix mess yet suffered no punishment for it (Scott even calls the Avengers out on this when they try to arrest him as Tony is standing right there amongst them).

Maybe he’s gotten better since, one can hope. He needs to get over his interest in Jean too, she’s sucked as a character past the Dark Phoenix Saga and serves just to continue the long played out feud between Logan and Scott. You know who Logan should end up with? Storm. She’s an actually interesting person as opposed to Jean whose main shtick is constantly dying and reviving (I remember Astonishing X-men even mocking her for that). Hell, Hugh Jackman might agree, given that outtake where he kisses Halle Berry when shooting Days of Future Past.
No way I'm reading all of that shit, Wolverine was just my favorite superhero as a kid. I'm an adult now
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
No way I'm reading all of that shit, Wolverine was just my favorite superhero as a kid. I'm an adult now

You're an adult... And? What's that supposed to mean? I'm pretty sure most of us play videogames... Half of us are comic readers or manga readers... It's all nerd/geek stuff so I'm not sure what "I'm an adult now" means in context of this board...
 

CGNoire

Member
My guess is that the first film would be almost unwatchable these days due your eyes having been opened to woke.

Not woke, but I tried watching Bryan Singers other classic Usual Suspects and I could not finish it. It is just so fucking fake.
Movie was overrated to begin with. Outside the ending most of it is boring.
 

CGNoire

Member
People who give a shit about it "making sense" are so annoying. Who gives a shit? Its a comicbook movie. Comic book stories retcon shit all the time. Its par for the course. Like i dont care one ioda "where the mutants where during endgame". Like seriously not important.
 

CGNoire

Member
How can they possibly wokify X-Men? Out of all comics the X-Men has the most diverse cast of any comic books. Everyone feels natural and nothing feels forced. Which is why I love it. You have amazing original black characters, Russians, Cajuns, Asians, Jews and kickass women. Hell the leader is a Paraplegic.

What is there to wokify?
They will race swap Xavier and Magneto. Cant have a white man overseeing such a diverse cast of POCs.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
My personal conspiracy theory is they know this phase isn't going as well as they hoped and they will use the X-Men to bring people back in after the Kang saga is over.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
They will race swap Xavier and Magneto. Cant have a white man overseeing such a diverse cast of POCs.

They might race swap them but not for that reason... Which atrocities could they pull from in the last 40 years that could have affected Magneto so? And what about Xavier? What tragedies could have affected him to want to build a bridge between humans and mutants?
 

CGNoire

Member
They might race swap them but not for that reason... Which atrocities could they pull from in the last 40 years that could have affected Magneto so? And what about Xavier? What tragedies could have affected him to want to build a bridge between humans and mutants?
Oh great you just reminded me on how (because of lucrativness of crossovers) they always have to change storys to make things take place in the present.....ugggghhh.

Its Punisher as a Desert Storm vet all over again.
 
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