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Visual wise this generation has been a disappointment, which is I have unrealistically high expectations for Spider-Man 2 graphically

J

Jim Ryan other Clone

Member
ckaneo said:
I thought we were off to a decent start with Demon Souls (probably could be done on a PS4) and Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart (ray tracing, fur, clarity, tech), but the more games I see the more I am disappointed. I am talking pure visuals here. We arent even getting locked framerates lol. Horzon looked great as well, but I feel like I am still waiting for that next generation leap. Spider-Man 2 I think (hope) will be that game. Isnt releasing on PS4, will have raytracing, studio that has already produced a decent looking PS5 game, and the best selling first party game from PS4 guaranteeing an unreal budget/man power. Are my expectations too high? Man I don't even care if Spiderman 2 is 30fps only. Show me something.

Maybe ray tracing is a pain to implement and its eating resources? Certainly kills overhead on the PC without upscaling. Man I'll even take cartoony games. DokeV looks amazing but will no doubt be downgraded on consoles.
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When you typed this post did you notice something? All games you though we're Sony games. The rest don't care that much about graphics and care more to make a passable game and make money.
 
anthraticus

anthraticus

Member
Danjin44 said:
And I dont mind graphics is not "high tech", if the art direction is good then I'm more than happy, this is why I love the visuals in FROM games despite not being high tech.

In fact I rather devs focus their resource and time on actual game rather than graphics, the novelty of impressive tech last maybe hour for me, at end of the day the actual gameplay that will keep me playing.
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Funny how it should just be an 'icing on the cake' type thing, yet the mainstream/AAA crowd view/treat it like the most important thing ever. They're priorities are completly fucked up.
 
Danjin44

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
anthraticus said:
Funny how it should just be an 'icing on the cake' type thing, yet the mainstream/AAA crowd view/treat it like the most important thing ever. They're priorities are completly fucked up.
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I like pretty visuals as much as the next guy but they way some people here obsess over it as if graphics is the only reason they got in to gaming in the first place.
 
Toons

Toons

Member
I mean christ... do yall want the polygons to cross the screen boundary and carress your thighs as you play?

Id say we have some pretty freaking good graphics. Facial animation has gone insane especially.

Yall have absolutely ridiculous expectations imo
 
E

El Pistolero

Member
Thirty7ven said:
Been around long enough, every Gen has threads like these.
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Yep. Once the heavy hitters start dropping, these hasty opinions will gradually vanish. People seem to forget that the transition period from the last generation to this one has been hurt by the pandemic situation, the impact of which is yet to be completely absorbed. I say wait for Sony first party studios, Rockstar, The Coalition, Playground, Dice and company to release their current-gen exclusives before criticizing the magnitude of the jump.
Having said that, I am not as interested as I had been with textures, lighting and resolution; I would rather developers had focused on animation, particularly, and A.I. "Static" visuals are good enough nowadays, while other important aspects get relegated to an afterthought.
 
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remember_spinal

remember_spinal

Banned
Arc Raiders and The Finals already look very ‘next gen’

They look better than im sure whatever Dice will end up putting out
 
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M1chl

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
hussar16 said:
The 60fps is just a handout because companies refuse to move from 2011 consoles and engines
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Yeah, but 60FPS is minimal playbale framerate, I refuse to go back. Well 40 is fine, but in that case it should have more modes.
 
H

hussar16

Member
3liteDragon said:
It'll be the best looking game this year, have some faith bro.

IMG_1860.jpg

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Yay we finally reached unreal engine 4 2013 tech demo levels
 
H

Hunnybun

Member
ChiefDada said:
It's never too early to implement new tech. We have to start somewhere. While I agree SM/MM RT, while nice, didn't do much for me, Ratchet looks very flat without RT (although it could be that other VFX trimmings with performance mode plays a larger role). Also developers don't have to utilize if they don't want to. But I say let's see how far they can push RT this gen. Like Cerny, I'm "quite bullish" lol.
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Ratchet looks exactly the same without RT except for the mirror like reflections on the ship (which itself was obviously designed to create a justification for the RT) and like 4 or 5 other examples. That's it. It's simply wrong to claim that it's a major part of the visuals. Spiderman with all the glass buildings is actually a much better test case for it.

And obviously developers don't have to utilise it - obviously. That's hardly the point.

Your claim that it's never too early to implement new tech is bizarre. What if using RT necessitated games at 480p and 15fps? Would it still be worth the trade off? If not, then you accept my point in principle: it's just a case of whether you think the trade off is worthwhile. My point was that it currently isn't. Very minor benefits almost always at the cost of a large cut to frame rate. The only counter example I've seen so far is Metro Exodus - just maybe that can become the standard, and then it might be worth it.
 
F

Falc67

Member
Paulxo87 said:
They already showed you what Spiderman 2 looks like. The trailer is what you can expect - It was real time in engine footage that they showed over a year ago. Also - the little playstation teaser commercial with 3 seconds of footage that just came out the other week... that was in engine too
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What 3 second footage are you on about? Most recent stuff had live action mixed with CGI. Where was it confirmed In engine?
 
F

Feel Like I'm On 42

Member
ChiefDada said:
It's never too early to implement new tech. We have to start somewhere. While I agree SM/MM RT, while nice, didn't do much for me, Ratchet looks very flat without RT (although it could be that other VFX trimmings with performance mode plays a larger role). Also developers don't have to utilize if they don't want to. But I say let's see how far they can push RT this gen. Like Cerny, I'm "quite bullish" lol.



Testify!!!

Church Pray GIF





Ironically, it is the incremental improvements that are making the biggest impressions for me. Visual fidelity has gotten so impressive that the small details will be what separates standout graphics from stuff we've already seen before. Case in point... TLOU Pt. 1. I've come to realize that the SSR was so glaring because most everything else looked so amazing. That's why I say the gains we are to get from diminishing returns are arguably the most consequential because they are the difference between convincing our brains we are viewing visuals imperceptible from reality vs those that
look pretty great, but there's a certain "something" that's off.
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Ironically, I thought the SSR reflections in Part 1 are a huge improvement from Part 2's. What wouldve happened to performance though if rt reflections were actually implemented? ND already has trouble getting fidelity mode to perform smoothly. I don't think ps5/sx is powerful enough for the jump we're looking for. I see these consoles coming up against limitations all the time.
 
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RPS37

RPS37

Member
I was not amazed the last time I was replaying uncharted 4 on ps5, so I would debate that one.
TLOU2 is being carried by art style I would argue too.
Or rather, GOW vs TLOU2 is more of an opinion on art style.
I don’t feel like GOW is trying to look like real life as much as TLOU2.
 
Mr.Phoenix

Mr.Phoenix

Member
ChiefDada said:
Ironically, it is the incremental improvements that are making the biggest impressions for me. Visual fidelity has gotten so impressive that the small details will be what separates standout graphics from stuff we've already seen before. Case in point... TLOU Pt. 1. I've come to realize that the SSR was so glaring because most everything else looked so amazing. That's why I say the gains we are to get from diminishing returns are arguably the most consequential because they are the difference between convincing our brains we are viewing visuals imperceptible from reality vs those that
look pretty great, but there's a certain "something" that's off.
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Wholeheartedly agree. In a sense, that's what I mean when I talk about artistry. It would come down to these devs finding creative ways to get the most out of the hardware as it's pretty much always been, but now that would be more important because those small details will be the difference between generic and mind-blowing.

A good example here can be RT. There are scenes in games, that have the same geometric detail, the same everything, but simply going from RT to non-RT can make the game look completely different. Even while running on the very same hardware.
 
ChiefDada

ChiefDada

Member
Feel Like I'm On 42 said:
Ironically, I thought the SSR reflections in Part 1 are a huge improvement from Part 2's. What wouldve happened to performance though if rt reflections were actually implemented? ND already has trouble getting fidelity mode to perform smoothly. I don't think ps5/sx is powerful enough for the jump we're looking for. I see these consoles coming up against limitations all the time.
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You're right, the performance was shaky, but I put that on a work in progress engine and not the hardware. And for the love of God I wish ND would get with the times and implement a reconstruction technique for their engine. Maybe RT would be feasible if they did so. That is why I can't agree with most others who say they are Sony's premier studio. GG, SSM, and Insomniac have all introduced new and amazing reconstruction tech this generation, what the hell is ND doing?

We can't judge the new consoles on cross gen that used old rendering methods. Let's see what GG has been able to accomplish with Horizon Burning Shores which is PS5 only. It won't give us the definitive answer on current gen limitations, but we'll get much better insight in less than 2 months.
 
H

hussar16

Member
Hunnybun said:
Ratchet looks exactly the same without RT except for the mirror like reflections on the ship (which itself was obviously designed to create a justification for the RT) and like 4 or 5 other examples. That's it. It's simply wrong to claim that it's a major part of the visuals. Spiderman with all the glass buildings is actually a much better test case for it.

And obviously developers don't have to utilise it - obviously. That's hardly the point.

Your claim that it's never too early to implement new tech is bizarre. What if using RT necessitated games at 480p and 15fps? Would it still be worth the trade off? If not, then you accept my point in principle: it's just a case of whether you think the trade off is worthwhile. My point was that it currently isn't. Very minor benefits almost always at the cost of a large cut to frame rate. The only counter example I've seen so far is Metro Exodus - just maybe that can become the standard, and then it might be worth it.
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Ratchet ps5 got downgraded to.i was excited on first reveal be abuse it looked amazing but then on release it looked worse
 
ZoukGalaxy

ZoukGalaxy

Member
I don't understand people expectations about graphics, its development curve is inevitably logarithmic. The more the tech evolve, the less the gap impress.

Math Mathematics GIF by MeinVideoStudio.de


Topics that should be more developed are definitely physics (how ridiculous until this day to see everything clipping aka "hey look at my beautiful hair going through my body/clothes and look at my weapon/sword on my back going deep into my ass" or "hey, I'm a magician, half my body is going through this wall and this rock !") and lighting (raytracing is still work in progress).

You should all lower your expectation because you will be less and less impressed each coming generation, at least, in pancake mode (VR is truely a revolution in gaming, including graphics, but still need more iteration to be "mainstream" accepted)
 
ResetEraVetVIP

ResetEraVetVIP

Member
rhodesianshepard said:
PC games all have minimum specs well below 2070 developers need to account for. Sony can solely develop for the PS5 and get way more out of it than pretty much any PC port. I can't think of many PC games that hold a candle to The Last of US 2 or Horizon Forbidden West when it comes to graphics quality, both of which were developed on the PS4
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Exactly.
 
R

Ronin_7

Member
If Demon Souls, Fortnite & Ratchet didn't impress you then:

- You have unrealistic expectations;
- You will need to wait for Guerrilla & Naughty Dog next gen debut.
 
S

SABRE220

Neo Member
adamsapple said:
I'm sorry but I'm not going to agree that performance over visuals is 'lazy'.
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Aiming for 60fps does not give devs complete leeway to rest on their laurels using last gen pipelines and putting the bare minimumto push the tech forward. We had 60fps games last gen such as doom eternal and battlefield 1(huge upgrades in the same gen even) that were ridiculously impressive, had massive scales and fidelity and were running on pathetic jaguar cpus, 1.2tflop gpus and 5400rpm hdds etc and now after getting ~10xgpu upgrade, vastly superior cpus and streaming systems we barely see a signifigant upgrade even in 60fps games....look at bf2042 its arguably a downgrade.

So again your criteria of basically patting devs on the back for just adding a 60fps and job done is disappointing...you can and should expect more.
 
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