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UK PoliGAF |OT3| - Strong and Stable Government? No. Coalition Of Chaos!

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T

TeddyBoy

Member
Great OP, here's the reference in case anyone doesn't watch the Simpsons or it's been a while:

5dc3c779480fef4314821daedd1e55c0.jpg
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H

Huw_Dawson

Member
So to start this off as the resident overbearing Lib Dem:

1. I'm seriously looking forward to Vince Cable taking over as leader. If nothing else, folks can't just bat him off as some nobody. He's got real clout - and baggage - and that can only be a good thing for my tiny bloc of sandal-wearing oddballs.

2. The fact that Chukka Umunna is currently getting slammed by his own side for putting out an amendment to the Queen's Speech on a cause he seems to be seriously in favour of is absolutely bonkers. (Especially when he is backing a cause that a sizeable chunk of the populace believe in).
 
T

TimmmV

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
So to start this off as the resident overbearing Lib Dem:

1. I'm seriously looking forward to Vince Cable taking over as leader. If nothing else, folks can't just bat him off as some nobody. He's got real clout - and baggage - and that can only be a good thing for my tiny bloc of sandal-wearing oddballs.

2. The fact that Chukka Umunna is currently getting slammed by his own side for putting out an amendment to the Queen's Speech on a cause he seems to be seriously in favour of is absolutely bonkers. (Especially when he is backing a cause that a sizeable chunk of the populace believe in).
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Those quotes posted in the last thread showed that it wasn't necessarily something he was clearly in favour of though - it was just to dry and promote himself and damage Corbyn, which only ends up helping the Tories

That's why people are mad
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
2. The fact that Chukka Umunna is currently getting slammed by his own side for putting out an amendment to the Queen's Speech on a cause he seems to be seriously in favour of is absolutely bonkers. (Especially when he is backing a cause that a sizeable chunk of the populace believe in).
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That's assuming the amendment was put forward in good faith - it wasn't. Short of a miracle, no good could come from it, and instead all it did was hand the Tories more ammunition and placed MP's from Remain constituencies in a bind if they didn't sign it. Umunna just keeps trying to grab the mic.

I am staunchly pro-Remain, but right now its time to get tactical and look at what fights have been won or lost, and what's still up for grabs. The purity test bullshit has to end, and we need to strengthen the best chance we have at an opposition to Tory's insanity.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
2. The fact that Chukka Umunna is currently getting slammed by his own side for putting out an amendment to the Queen's Speech on a cause he seems to be seriously in favour of is absolutely bonkers. (Especially when he is backing a cause that a sizeable chunk of the populace believe in).
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He's went and pissed off even people that agree to the idea. That's because 1) He's a POS and doesn't actually support said amendment and has spoken against the idea he put forward in the past. 2) He put the party is a very awkward position to promote himself. 3) Nothing good could have come out of putting it forward. If we may win and stop this insanity pragmatism will be needed. Not everyone is going for the 'we'll never govern so let's be a protest party' position of the Greens and LibDems.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
So to start this off as the resident overbearing Lib Dem:

1. I'm seriously looking forward to Vince Cable taking over as leader. If nothing else, folks can't just bat him off as some nobody. He's got real clout - and baggage - and that can only be a good thing for my tiny bloc of sandal-wearing oddballs.

2. The fact that Chukka Umunna is currently getting slammed by his own side for putting out an amendment to the Queen's Speech on a cause he seems to be seriously in favour of is absolutely bonkers. (Especially when he is backing a cause that a sizeable chunk of the populace believe in).
Click to expand...

I agree, I think Cable will be good for you guys.
 
L

Lego Boss

Member
Huw_Dawson said:
So to start this off as the resident overbearing Lib Dem:

1. I'm seriously looking forward to Vince Cable taking over as leader. If nothing else, folks can't just bat him off as some nobody. He's got real clout - and baggage - and that can only be a good thing for my tiny bloc of sandal-wearing oddballs.

2. The fact that Chukka Umunna is currently getting slammed by his own side for putting out an amendment to the Queen's Speech on a cause he seems to be seriously in favour of is absolutely bonkers. (Especially when he is backing a cause that a sizeable chunk of the populace believe in).
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I have just been upstairs to lay a cable
 
M

Mr Git

Member
Hazzuh said:
Some people may have seen that Bercow relaxed the dress code for the HoC such that it was no longer required for male MPs to wear a tie. Turns out he may have changed the rules to accommodate newly elected disabled MP Jared O'Mara who can't wear a shirt and tie:



Respect to Bercow
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This is actually brilliant. That article was excellent he seems like an ace guy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/18/jared-omara-labour-mp-sheffield-hallam-defeated-nick-clegg

He even uses the same youthful skin technique as me

I don’t see any reason why we can’t have, in the future, 18- or 19-year-old MPs. We’ve seen Mhairi Black [the SNP MP who was 20 when she was first elected]. She has done a fantastic job. She hasn’t let anyone patronise her, and I’m going to have to do the same, because I’ve got a baby face.” He gives me a look. Do I want to know the secret of his youthful visage? “It’s down to mineral water, steamed vegetables and 20 fags a day.”
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Although I'd probably substitute mineral water with tea and biscuits
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
That's really great.

Also I'm happy for basically anyone to run for MP. If the people want to elect an 18 year old, I don't see why they should have that choice taken from them.

That said, personally, I don't think I could bring myself to vote for an 18 or 19 year old. Literally everyone I know was very confident but very wrong about almost everything when they were 18 or 19, including myself. That's a potent combination, especially when combined with a little bit of power.
 
C

cabot

Member
CyclopsRock said:
That's really great.

Also I'm happy for basically anyone to run for MP. If the people want to elect an 18 year old, I don't see why they should have that choice taken from them.

That said, personally, I don't think I could bring myself to vote for an 18 or 19 year old. Literally everyone I know was very confident but very wrong about almost everything when they were 18 or 19, including myself. That's a potent combination, especially when combined with a little bit of power.
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Would rather have at least one MP who knew how technology works than a shower of failures.


You get a young one in, chances are higher they would understand.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
cabot said:
Would rather have at least one MP who knew how technology works than a shower of failures.


You get a young one in, chances are higher they would understand.
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That's possibly true, but even that's a weird one. My not-quite-step-brother is about 5 and he knows how to use an iPad intuitively. But he's never gonna have to run Championship Manager 97/98 by rebooting into DOS and executing it by command line. Which is to say that as technology gets more and more intuitive, using it gets a lot easier but not necessarily understanding how it works. Obviously there are young people who understand it amazingly well, but it'll be interesting to see how we develop in the future with regards to technology. I mean, I've grown up around cars and I dunno how the fuck anything works, despite driving for 12 years. It all just works, they rarely break now days so I rarely look under the bonnet except to fill it with wiper fluid.
 
C

cabot

Member
CyclopsRock said:
That's possibly true, but even that's a weird one. My not-quite-step-brother is about 5 and he knows how to use an iPad intuitively. But he's never gonna have to run Championship Manager 97/98 by rebooting into DOS and executing it by command line. Which is to say that as technology gets more and more intuitive, using it gets a lot easier but not necessarily understanding how it works. Obviously there are young people who understand it amazingly well, but it'll be interesting to see how we develop in the future with regards to technology. I mean, I've grown up around cars and I dunno how the fuck anything works, despite driving for 12 years. It all just works, they rarely break now days so I rarely look under the bonnet except to fill it with wiper fluid.
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I'd like to clarify by technology I'm talking about a bit more advanced knowledge, like Computer Science undergraduate level sort of stuff.

Someone who could look at the Snooper's Charter or backdoor encryption and be like 'thats utter bullshit mate'

which of course isnt really what a MP is for, they don't have to be experts.


Still though, a man can dream.
 
M

Mindwipe

Member
cabot said:
Would rather have at least one MP who knew how technology works than a shower of failures.


You get a young one in, chances are higher they would understand.
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Julian Huppert used to be this, you don't need an 18 year old.

I think it's a shame he didn't get back in tbh.

I think it's rather telling that an MP who cared a lot about empirical data, technology and evidence was apparently regarded as a "weirdo" by other MPs.
 
GamingKaiju

GamingKaiju

Member
Dan, that OP had me laughing for a while 😂

Would still like to hear some information regarding Brexit other than Brexit means "Brexit" sound bites.
 
N

Nasbin

Member
It's been quite something to watch the narrative spin over the past couple of days on r/uk and elsewhere that Labour voters knew all along that a vote for Corbyn was a vote for hard brexit. He didn't betray us remainers, we all knew this was coming!

So much for "Theresa May's hard brexit mandate is dead!" Corbynism is a hell of a drug.
 
C

Camp Freddie

Member
Nasbin said:
It's been quite something to watch the narrative spin over the past couple of days on r/uk and elsewhere that Labour voters knew all along that a vote for Corbyn was a vote for hard brexit. He didn't betray us remainers, we all knew this was coming!

So much for "Theresa May's hard brexit mandate is dead!" Corbynism is a hell of a drug.
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But Labour want to stay in the customs union, which provides great benefits, like having zero influence over your international trade policy.

And I bet those young corbynistas really care about the avoidance of country of origin checks. It places such a burden on their small businesses!

It just the single market with it's free movement that Labour are opposed to. Because those Glastonbury revellers would never want to take a gap year in France or Spain.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
Fernando Fernandez said:
Well.

Hard Brexit is off the table': Labour's Keir Starmer vows to block Theresa May's plans

MP says his party will assure the UK does not leave the EU without a deal

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/hard-brexit-table-labours-keir-10717922
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Of course. There's a fair number of Tory MPs who would be quite happy to see us crash out to WTO rules today, thinking there's nothing wrong with that and we'd not see any damage at all from that. We could even just not tariffs on anything, no customs duties, anything. Thankfully that's off the table now.

It's also important to note what Labour's six points are for backing any Brexit deal.

  1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?
  2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?
  3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?
  4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?
  5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?
  6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

The strategy is obvious. Stay out of the mess, exploit divisions within the Tory party and give them hell when Davies returns with a terrible deal.
 
K

kmag

Member
Camp Freddie said:
But Labour want to stay in the customs union, which provides great benefits, like having zero influence over your international trade policy.

And I bet those young corbynistas really care about the avoidance of country of origin checks. It places such a burden on their small businesses!

It just the single market with it's free movement that Labour are opposed to. Because those Glastonbury revellers would never want to take a gap year in France or Spain.
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It also provides great benefits like having some form of native manufacturing.

The notion that the UK is going to magically be this behemoth of international trade is probably the most ludicrous thing about this whole enterprise. We've got the weight of the largest trading bloc on the planet which is adept at getting excellent deals for the bloc on our side at the moment and we've not managed to have any real consistent success at exporting. To put it in context the EU has 56 RTA's (trade deals) registered at the WTO, the US has 20, Japan has 15 and China also has 15. None of the big 4 have deals with each other, the EU has been the main driver of any movement and has pretty much secured deals with Japan and India (aided amusingly by the diminishing power of the UK) and seems to be making progress with China. By every measure on the planet the EU is most successful trading organisation in existence.

One of the greatest lies told about the EU is it's 'inability' to seal trade deals. Any cursory look at the facts suggests it's actually really good at doing that.

The UK is a large economy but it's a paperweight compared to the top 4, and will get smashed against them. It'll essentially be the only major economy without a regional trade bloc to use as leverage.
 
C

Camp Freddie

Member
Labour's 6 point plan only makes sense when you realise that they will seize the means of cake production.

Otherwise, the only answer meeting the 6 points is to not bother with Brexit at all.
 
R

Rodelero

Member
Labour's plan seems to be: push for a softer hard brexit than the Conservatives while hoping that their remain supporters don't realise that they are still pushing for the hard brexit suicide pact.

Great.
 
Theonik

Theonik

Member
Rodelero said:
Labour's plan seems to be: push for a softer hard brexit than the Conservatives while hoping that their remain supporters don't realise that they are still pushing for the hard brexit suicide pact.

Great.
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Fact: Soft Brexit doesn't exist. There is only two options. To Brexit or not to Brexit. But people have said 'To Brexit' and so we are at an impasse. To Brexit requires someone to deal with the fallout of the insanity that is to Brexit. Not to Brexit at this point is to face the electorate on taking a dump on their face. And so, success is rooted in the Conservatives eating their own shit sandwich and picking up the rubble after.

It is intellectually dishonest, but that goes with trying to leave the EU in all but name giving an objectively worse deal to the people in the process. The other problem with running on that platform is also that you are basically declaring your intent to sabotage this from the start so losing credibility with 52% of the electorate and possibly parts of the rest of the electorate too.
 
H

Huw_Dawson

Member
It's not intellectually dishonest to advocate for Single Market and Customs Union membership. Advocating a hard Brexit when you think it is a stupid idea is dishonest.

Oh, Vince Cable got asked a bunch about his EU views so he put up a FB post. Here's an extract:

I have observed that other member states impose restrictions on free movement. Germany, for example, restricts the free movement of professional staff. It seems entirely reasonable to look at ways through which the UK can remain within the single market – and, I hope, the European Union – but manages migration in a way that better deals with some of the real social impacts on local communities. I have suggested a variety of options, including restricting admission to those with jobs to come to. The failure to consider reforms of this kind may well have contributed to the Brexit vote.

I believe that Brexit would be a disaster for Britain, but we have to recognise that we lost the vote last year. If we can help to prevent it, even at this late stage, by looking in an open-minded way at reforms such as these, it seems to me that the prize is worth the effort.
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