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[Phoenix RISING]

So then, what is the function of a tutorial that everyone wants so badly, if the people who want to get good will do so on their own?

I have not played DOA since it was on the Dreamcast

 

[lucebuce12]

There's a difference between being competent and being good. The large majority of people who play online fall into the former. Just look at Street Fighter online. A VERY large chunk of the people playing online fall into the range between "Mashing buttons and hope something comes out" and "knows framedata and ideal punishes".

Introducing someone to Tekken becomes a whole lot easier if the fundamentals of the game are taught to you in-game as opposed to just throwing you into the deep end and saying "swim".

As I said before, a tutorial mode's function is never to make someone good, it's to TEACH them how to play the game. Hell the same applies to single player games, where the tutorial teaches you how to move and shoot/attack and stuff but "high level" stuff like spacing and headshots and knowing when to stay in cover and when not to and all that stuff is something that's a part of improving.

And while DoA5's tutorial isn't anything earth shattering, it was enough to teach me all the game's systems so I never felt lost in an actual match.

 

[Human Trashcan]

Dude I didn't even know how throw breaks work in this game until I watched Aris. That is not excusable. The game should teach you its basic mechanics. This isn't rocket science, no one expects a tutorial to turn them into Saint. But just at the very least a rundown on the basic mechanics and how to apply them is not too much to ask for.

 

[lucebuce12]

Oh God, don't even get me started on throws. I was told by Tekken vets that the way to break throws is by pressing 1 or 2 depending on the throw in question.

I broke like 0 throws in my first week cause having to recognize the animation and choosing between 1 or 2 or 1+2 was too much for my feeble brain to handle.

Then I saw that video of Aris explaining that 1 or 2 breaks all regular throws and it's 1+2 for most non-Nina and non-King command throws. And that if you get grabbed during the startup of a power crush, you can't break it.

I can not tell you how much that soured me that such a basic thing was something that I had to learn from a bearded stoner in California.

 

[Dereck]

TEKKEN 7 (PC) Party Wolf, Dereck & Speedkicks

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Hmmm. I've always looked upon breaking throws as advanced tactics.

I didn't even start breaking throws until I started playing Tekken 7. Well, mine is King and my roommate who played as Craig Marduk.

Side-stepping too. Hell, the only time I side step is to stall or get the wall off my back.

 

[sasuke_91]

Hmmm. I've always looked upon breaking throws as advanced tactics.

I didn't even start breaking throws until I started playing Tekken 7. Well, mine is King and my roommate who played as Craig Marduk.

Side-stepping too. Hell, the only time I side step is to stall or get the wall off my back.

Breaking throws is a lot easier in T7, so it's not really as "advanced" as it was in the past.
Sidestepping is something you have to get a feeling for. It's a 3D fighter, so you have to use the z-axis.

TEKKEN 7 (PC) Party Wolf, Dereck & Speedkicks

Yoo, nice!

 

[Kalentan]

Man that fuck Johnny Bravo asshole.

I can do half your health or 2/3 with one attack!

So much fun! So much skill!

 

[Onemic]

That was an amazing top 8 at SEAM

 

[Wallach]

That SEA Major top 8 may have been my favorite T7 yet. JDCR is mortal? Qudans wins a major with Devil Jin in such a buttclencher? Good grief.

 

[Rajang]

That was an amazing top 8 at SEAM

Absolutely incredible.

So happy for Qudans.

 

[Kalentan]

Was playing Kazumi but decided to try out Xiaoyu and seems I'm having far more success.

Wish there was more hair styles.

 

[Dereck]

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Oh God, don't even get me started on throws. I was told by Tekken vets that the way to break throws is by pressing 1 or 2 depending on the throw in question.

I broke like 0 throws in my first week cause having to recognize the animation and choosing between 1 or 2 or 1+2 was too much for my feeble brain to handle.

Then I saw that video of Aris explaining that 1 or 2 breaks all regular throws and it's 1+2 for most non-Nina and non-King command throws. And that if you get grabbed during the startup of a power crush, you can't break it.

I can not tell you how much that soured me that such a basic thing was something that I had to learn from a bearded stoner in California.

Tbh that bearded stoner in Cali probably made learning throwbreaks more entertaining than any tutorial would.

Yeah tutorials are "nice" to have but if their data says no one uses them and you know people just play them for trophies, why bother? If people want to learn they have a good practice mode and YouTube. Tutorials are really glorified checklists at the end of the day.

 

[Kumubou]

Tbh that bearded stoner in Cali probably made learning throwbreaks more entertaining than any tutorial would.

Yeah tutorials are "nice" to have but if their data says no one uses them and you know people just play them for trophies, why bother? If people want to learn they have a good practice mode and YouTube. Tutorials are really glorified checklists at the end of the day.

I would like to see them do something like what Gran Turismo Sport does in its loading screens. In that game, when waiting for a track to load, you have the option to watch a YouTube video that presumably is going to be about the track or challenge you are about to do. In the beta they had a video for each challenge with some advice and it looks like it's something they could add to on the fly (since it's all streamed from YouTube).

It would be nice to have something in-game curated by Namco's staff showing you suggestions for community-made videos for everything from combo videos to specific match-ups. (Hell, if they have enough of a budget they should pay to have the content made itself.) They could also use that to push Tekken World Tour content in-game as another avenue to expose people to the esports side of things and what the highest level of play looks like.

 

[lucebuce12]

The worst part is, they had a very good compromise with TTT2 where they released a video series explaining the basics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkkj44M3meE

They could have just done the same for T7. They even have videos on their site narrated by MarkMan explaining some of the new stuff in T7.

Between this, the lack of modes, lack of online features, the generally shoddy state of the online at release, this console release was clearly not given enough time/money.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Tekken has never been on PC before.

Perhaps resources went there?

 

[Onemic]

I would like to see them do something like what Gran Turismo Sport does in its loading screens. In that game, when waiting for a track to load, you have the option to watch a YouTube video that presumably is going to be about the track or challenge you are about to do. In the beta they had a video for each challenge with some advice and it looks like it's something they could add to on the fly (since it's all streamed from YouTube).

It would be nice to have something in-game curated by Namco's staff showing you suggestions for community-made videos for everything from combo videos to specific match-ups. (Hell, if they have enough of a budget they should pay to have the content made itself.) They could also use that to push Tekken World Tour content in-game as another avenue to expose people to the esports side of things and what the highest level of play looks like.

Ya I really liked GT:S implementation of youtube vids too. FG's should really borrow that idea since jpn devs not named arcsys seem so averse to having decent tutorials in-game.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Wonder how work on Geese is coming along, he should be pretty polished now.

I don't understand why there isn't some new video to even remind people he's coming.

 

[lucebuce12]

Wonder how work on Geese is coming along, he should be pretty polished now.

I don't understand why there isn't some new video to even remind people he's coming.

If it's Winter 2017, then I'm assuming it's gonna be December. He's gonna be playable at the TWT global finals though so expect some footage to show up there even if it's off-screen.

Who knows, we might even get an announcement for the second DLC character.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Ya I really liked GT:S implementation of youtube vids too. FG's should really borrow that idea since jpn devs not named arcsys seem so averse to having decent tutorials in-game.

Injustice, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat...are those the only western fighting games?

 

[lucebuce12]

Injustice, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat...are those the only western fighting games?

Skullgirls, which also had a pretty decent tutorial system.

 

[Onemic]

Injustice, Killer Instinct, Mortal Kombat...are those the only western fighting games?

Skullgirls if you count that game as being alive still.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

If it's Winter 2017, then I'm assuming it's gonna be December. He's gonna be playable at the TWT global finals though so expect some footage to show up there even if it's off-screen.

Who knows, we might even get an announcement for the second DLC character.

I think, I "hope" they're working on a big update to the game. Like a Super version or FR2. Tekken 7.5. Bunch of old characters returning, more SF crossovers, new mechanics, more ragearts, more everything.

That's why I think it's so quiet lately. I don't think this update will land earlier than 2019(edit: not 2018 I forgot it's the end of 2017) but I feel it's coming. Sometime.

It'd make sense too. It's way cheaper and less time consuming to build upon existing game than make a new one and we all know TxSF is never coming and Soul Calibur 6 probably is in the same place VF6 is in Sega - locked in the freezer forever.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

I would like to see them do something like what Gran Turismo Sport does in its loading screens. In that game, when waiting for a track to load, you have the option to watch a YouTube video that presumably is going to be about the track or challenge you are about to do. In the beta they had a video for each challenge with some advice and it looks like it's something they could add to on the fly (since it's all streamed from YouTube).

It would be nice to have something in-game curated by Namco's staff showing you suggestions for community-made videos for everything from combo videos to specific match-ups. (Hell, if they have enough of a budget they should pay to have the content made itself.) They could also use that to push Tekken World Tour content in-game as another avenue to expose people to the esports side of things and what the highest level of play looks like.

That would honestly be a lot better and made me more engaged in learning GTS. YouTube video hell is a thing lol

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Skullgirls, which also had a pretty decent tutorial system.

Skullgirls if you count that game as being alive still.

Speaking of western fighters, I purchased Skullgirls on January 2015, Mortal Kombat Komplete April 2016, and MKX December 2016. Bought the first Injustice April 2016 too.

Have not even installed any of them. KI just came out. Guess I need to buy it...and not play it too.

Edit: I generally buy fighting games for the story as silly as that sounds. That's actually why I got into Tekken. The story gave the game meaning...which is why Tekken 7 is disappointing.

 

[Human Trashcan]

Got into an Asuka mirror match against a marauder Asuka with like 500-something wins. And I swear to fucking god all they did was counter. And the shameful thing is I got destroyed 3 out of 4 matches because I'm not used to it. ALL of Asuka's moves can be fuckin countered. And they did it SO MUCH, all my regular plays in my head just weren't working anymore. Rarely played such a frustrating match. Dude was a total scrub, didn't have combos for shit, clearly only got so many wins by abusing counters and probably losing to anyone who knows how to chicken consistently (I don't). Jesus that was just pure cancer.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

Got into an Asuka mirror match against a marauder Asuka with like 500-something wins. And I swear to fucking god all they did was counter. And the shameful thing is I got destroyed 3 out of 4 matches because I'm not used to it. ALL of Asuka's moves can be fuckin countered. And they did it SO MUCH, all my regular plays in my head just weren't working anymore. Rarely played such a frustrating match. Dude was a total scrub, didn't have combos for shit, clearly only got so many wins by abusing counters and probably losing to anyone who knows how to chicken consistently (I don't). Jesus that was just pure cancer.

You don't have to chicken to win. Once you realize they spam counters you just gotta play more patient. Block and move and wait. Once the counter comes out you can:

1) Wait for the counter window to end then launch them.
2) Throw them or go low since the counter doesn't work on these attacks.
3) Use a knee or elbow attack since the counter doesn't work on these either (I think headbutts work too).

 

[Human Trashcan]

You don't have to chicken to win. Once you realize they spam counters you just gotta play more patient. Block and move and wait. Once the counter comes out you can:

1) Wait for the counter window to end then launch them.
2) Throw them or go low since the counter doesn't work on these attacks.
3) Use a knee or elbow attack since the counter doesn't work on these either (I think headbutts work too).

I know all these things in theory I just couldn't put it all into practice because I was so unused to playing someone like that. And they were mixing it up just enough with being on the offensive that I'd get caught out too. The counter also works on a lot of stuff that made me go "really?" - notably the f+2 launcher, which is an elbow, and orbitals. If I'd had a few more matches I think I could've blown them up, I'm just too scrubby to adjust my whole approach so much so quickly.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

I know all these things in theory I just couldn't put it all into practice because I was so unused to playing someone like that. And they were mixing it up just enough with being on the offensive that I'd get caught out too. The counter also works on a lot of stuff that made me go "really?" - notably the f+2 launcher, which is an elbow, and orbitals. If I'd had a few more matches I think I could've blown them up, I'm just too scrubby to adjust my whole approach so much so quickly.

f+2 isn't an elbow attack which is why it's countered. f+1+2 works though.

 

[Kalentan]

Man got to give Akuma props. He's easily the most annoying character in Street Fighter V and he has that honor in this game as well!

Such a cancerous pick. Like the very pick of super try hardy players.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Got into an Asuka mirror match against a marauder Asuka with like 500-something wins. And I swear to ****ing god all they did was counter. And the shameful thing is I got destroyed 3 out of 4 matches because I'm not used to it. ALL of Asuka's moves can be ****in countered. And they did it SO MUCH, all my regular plays in my head just weren't working anymore. Rarely played such a frustrating match. Dude was a total scrub, didn't have combos for ****, clearly only got so many wins by abusing counters and probably losing to anyone who knows how to chicken consistently (I don't). Jesus that was just pure cancer.

Throw, throw, and throw some more.

Throws are such an important part of my "arsenal" that I wouldn't even have to "change" my play style.

Also, while they're standing there, 3~4 is a free juggle and you don't even have to crouch cancel.

 

[Human Trashcan]

f+2 isn't an elbow attack which is why it's countered. f+1+2 works though.

I always read f+2 as an elbow. It looks like she just launches using that.

Also yeah I should've used 3~4 WAY more than I did during the match, kind of had that "duh" moment later. I did throw a bunch too (he never broke b+1+2). It was just a super annoying match all around. Now I understand why some people hate Asuka - funnily enough, Asuka herself seems particularly vulnerable to her own counters, but maybe that's just my perception.

Also got my first Steam hatemail (profile message) tonight from a salty Brian player that I 1-1'd. Game was a bit laggy, he seemed to think it was my fault despite me playing on wired fiber, lol. Also threw in a bunch of homophobic slurs and told me to kill myself multiple times for playing Asuka. Good times.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

I always read f+2 as an elbow. It looks like she just launches using that.

Also yeah I should've used 3~4 WAY more than I did during the match, kind of had that "duh" moment later. I did throw a bunch too (he never broke b+1+2). It was just a super annoying match all around. Now I understand why some people hate Asuka - funnily enough, Asuka herself seems particularly vulnerable to her own counters, but maybe that's just my perception.

Also got my first Steam hatemail (profile message) tonight from a salty Brian player that I 1-1'd. Game was a bit laggy, he seemed to think it was my fault despite me playing on wired fiber, lol. Also threw in a bunch of homophobic slurs and told me to kill myself multiple times for playing Asuka. Good times.

Hmm, I have not gotten any hate profile posts. I'm actually disappointed so far, lol.

This makes me want to play Asuka EVEN MORE!

 

[Kalentan]

Man... I don't know.

Sometimes this game is really fun but it just feels so inconsistent in terms of damages and what moves do how much damage. Like you got characters who can do 1/3 of your health in one single hit, not a combo, just a single hit. Or hell even grabs that do that much.

It's for sure one of the more maddening fighting games. Cause it can be fun, I want to play more, but at the same time though you play those matches that feel like some of the most anti-fun in any current fighting games. I think that's it. There's more characters that are 'anti-fun' to play against in this game than the average fighting game.

You have all of these combos in the game but it feels like no one ever gets them off cause there are usually 1 hit or 2 hit stuff that deals a shit ton of damage and so it feels frustrating when you go up against characters who can do those 1 to 2 hit attacks that just destroy your health bar. Whats the point of combos if no one gets them off or uses them.

Maybe in High end play it's better but in low end play for us newer players that what it seems like. Or maybe I just... Fighting games are the only genre that get me worked up like this. Literally nothing else.

 

[ZeroX03]

Man... I don't know.

Sometimes this game is really fun but it just feels so inconsistent in terms of damages and what moves do how much damage. Like you got characters who can do 1/3 of your health in one single hit, not a combo, just a single hit. Or hell even grabs that do that much.

It's for sure one of the more maddening fighting games. Cause it can be fun, I want to play more, but at the same time though you play those matches that feel like some of the most anti-fun in any current fighting games. I think that's it. There's more characters that are 'anti-fun' to play against in this game than the average fighting game.

You have all of these combos in the game but it feels like no one ever gets them off cause there are usually 1 hit or 2 hit stuff that deals a shit ton of damage and so it feels frustrating when you go up against characters who can do those 1 to 2 hit attacks that just destroy your health bar. Whats the point of combos if no one gets them off or uses them.

Maybe in High end play it's better but in low end play for us newer players that what it seems like. Or maybe I just... Fighting games are the only genre that get me worked up like this. Literally nothing else.

Usually the stuff that does big damage is extremely risky and you get just as much damage back if you block it. Learn to punish.

 

[lucebuce12]

(i) Dragonuv has a move where he makes a fist with both hands and raises his arms and hits you above the head. He also does that as part of his Rage Drive but what's the framedata on that move when he does it regularly? Or just share how to do that move and i'll look up the framedata.

(ii)Does anyone have any good guides for Leo and/or Miguel in T7? I really love Leo's amazing punishment tools and want to learn him/her/it. Miguel also feels like a really fun character too.

 

[FormallyFamicom]

(i) Dragonuv has a move where he makes a fist with both hands and raises his arms and hits you above the head. He also does that as part of his Rage Drive but what's the framedata on that move when he does it regularly? Or just share how to do that move and i'll look up the framedata.

(ii)Does anyone have any good guides for Leo and/or Miguel in T7? I really love Leo's amazing punishment tools and want to learn him/her/it. Miguel also feels like a really fun character too.

It's b+1+2 and it's plus on block. You can look up how much exactly.

If you want a primer on Miguel I can help you with that, sometime later.

 

[Human Trashcan]

It's for sure one of the more maddening fighting games. Cause it can be fun, I want to play more, but at the same time though you play those matches that feel like some of the most anti-fun in any current fighting games. I think that's it. There's more characters that are 'anti-fun' to play against in this game than the average fighting game.

I agree with this part. I know it's scrubby, it's just "learn the matchup noob" but if I could blacklist characters to never play against it'd be like a third of the roster. I hate all those gimmicky characters. LC, Eddy, bears, Yoshi, they can all go away. It's really difficult to learn for new players like myself because a lot of characters in this game are very hard to get a read on.

(ii)Does anyone have any good guides for Leo and/or Miguel in T7? I really love Leo's amazing punishment tools and want to learn him/her/it. Miguel also feels like a really fun character too.

Just use singular "they/them", "it" especially is pretty gross.

My bad, it was a shitty attempt at a joke. Sorry if I offended.

No worries, I didn't think you were trying to be hurtful. But trans/non-binary people do exist.

 

[lucebuce12]

It's b+1+2 and it's plus on block. You can look up how much exactly.

If you want a primer on Miguel I can help you with that, sometime later.

B+1+2 is +6 oB and hits mid

Also I've mainly decided to work off of FrameWhisperer's guide on Miguel, he produced a good one for Gigas too so you don't need to go to the trouble

Just use singular "they/them", "it" especially is pretty gross.

My bad, it was a shitty attempt at a joke. Sorry if I offended.

 

[Spuck-uk]

(i) Dragonuv has a move where he makes a fist with both hands and raises his arms and hits you above the head. He also does that as part of his Rage Drive but what's the framedata on that move when he does it regularly? Or just share how to do that move and i'll look up the framedata.

(ii)Does anyone have any good guides for Leo and/or Miguel in T7? I really love Leo's amazing punishment tools and want to learn him/her/it. Miguel also feels like a really fun character too.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL77Mi7HT_DHSgQeIsr3wzG_juKntRONCW

Collection of that good Leo shit

 

[Spuck-uk]

B+1+2 is +6 oB and hits mid

Also I've mainly decided to work off of FrameWhisperer's guide on Miguel, he produced a good one for Gigas too so you don't need to go to the trouble
My bad, it was a shitty attempt at a joke. Sorry if I offended.

It's also short range and ~22 frames. In the open running 2 is almost always a better option for the same effect and full launch on counterhit.

But yeah Dragunov is real good.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Dragunov is a character I hate, but learned how to play against because everyone plays him. And yes, running 2 and B+1+2 are disgusting.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Qudans' Return has me so pumped for Globals. Asia's Line Up is pretty much an All Star List of Legends.

JDCR, Saint, Nobi, Knee, Qudans, & Neroma.

 

[CSX]

So hype seeing Qudans entering tourneys and placing high. His t5dr matches were the ones that got me to try learning how to play the game.

It's gotten me down a road of nostalgia lol

Here's prime Qudans vs a young JDCR's heihachi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCkOsHZ087o

And him pulling off one of the greatest comebacks in Tekken history

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgX8dOffN8

 

[lucebuce12]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgX8dOffN8

Damn that was insane.

Unrelated but what track/stage is that? The music is awesome.

 

[Dereck]

Qudans' Return has me so pumped for Globals. Asia's Line Up is pretty much an All Star List of Legends.

JDCR, Saint, Nobi, Knee, Qudans, & Neroma.

Knee needs to get it together. It's hard to be a Knee fan right now.

Damn that was insane.

Unrelated but what track/stage is that? The music is awesome.

Winter Palace

So hype seeing Qudans entering tourneys and placing high. His t5dr matches were the ones that got me to try learning how to play the game.

It's gotten me down a road of nostalgia lol

Here's prime Qudans vs a young JDCR's heihachi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCkOsHZ087o

And him pulling off one of the greatest comebacks in Tekken history

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgX8dOffN8

Watching T5 Qudans is orgasmic

 

[CSX]

Damn that was insane.

Unrelated but what track/stage is that? The music is awesome.

Snow Castle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JygHSf7l7Q

 

[Phoenix RISING]

So hype seeing Qudans entering tourneys and placing high. His t5dr matches were the ones that got me to try learning how to play the game.

It's gotten me down a road of nostalgia lol

Here's prime Qudans vs a young JDCR's heihachi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCkOsHZ087o

And him pulling off one of the greatest comebacks in Tekken history

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgX8dOffN8

How do yall get excited about seeing the same characters all the time?

Don't three of those dudes main Dragonuv?

 

[CSX]

How do yall get excited about seeing the same characters all the time?

Don't three of those dudes main Dragonuv?

Players have mains so it's not surprising you know. For Knee, it's bryan , Qudans -Devil Jin , Nin - Steve, etc

Since they are all longtime players and the series is a legacy game, it ain't surprising that they all end up learning other characters over the sequels. Whooping ass with the same character gets boring it seems lol

Knee was so good during T5 to Tag 2 that he basically learned how to play every single character. Now he's in character crisis mode lol.

Qudans played other mishimas and his go to non-mishima is Bryan.

Nin plays the majority of the cast too but he also goes back to his boy Steve.

Do they all play Dragunov? I bet but I don't see why it matters when it's just one out of the 20 other characters that they all know how to play. Out of all the korean players that go to multiple tournaments, it's only JDCR and Kkokkoma that pull out Dragunovs recently. And Japan has Nobi.