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[epmode]

you can rewind 50 turns

Wat. You mean that you can, at any time, choose to go back anywhere from 1 to 50 turns? And if so, is there a penalty for this? Because that's close to a godmode cheat as far as I can tell.

 

[TommyT]

Wat. You mean that you can, at any time, choose to go back anywhere from 1 to 50 turns? And if so, is there a penalty for this? Because that's close to a godmode cheat as far as I can tell.

You don't have to use it.

 

[epmode]

So it's not even limited to one use per battle or something? Weak.

..not that it would matter if you can make a mid-battle permasave.

 

[Augemitbutter]

http://www.eidoshop.fr/helps/engagments.php

thanks

 

[Quixzlizx]

So it's not even limited to one use per battle or something? Weak.

..not that it would matter if you can make a mid-battle permasave.

The game keeps track of how many battles you need to use CHARIOT to beat, so your humiliation will be recorded for all posterity.

 

[Yaweee]

People are making way too big of a deal about the CHARIOT system.

Oh, look, you've lost the battle. Do you want to waste twenty-minutes of your time and redo the enter level, or admit defeat and just redo a few minutes of your battle? Why do people treat it like some badge of honor that they get to redo most of the mission, rather than just a few recent turns?

To me most obnoxious aspect of SRPGs is how freakishly long the battles can be, and that a mistake near the end can often make you redo the entire mission, no matter how absolutely flawless and perfect you performed the first 90% of the level. Yes, I like difficulty in games, but I don't have a lot of patience for redoing sections over and over that I can do perfectly time and time again. More often than not they might as be twenty-minute unskippable cut-scenes.

(and when people say 50 turns, they mean 50 character turns, so around 2~3 full rounds)

 

[hsukardi]

People are making way too big of a deal about the CHARIOT system.

Oh, look, you've lost the battle. Do you want to waste twenty-minutes of your time and redo the enter level, or admit defeat and just redo a few minutes of your battle? Why do people treat it like some badge of honor that they get to redo most of the mission, rather than just a few recent turns?

To me most obnoxious aspect of SRPGs is how freakishly long the battles can be, and that a mistake near the end can often make you redo the entire mission, no matter how absolutely flawless and perfect you performed the first 90% of the level. Yes, I like difficulty in games, but I don't have a lot of patience for redoing sections over and over that I can do perfectly time and time again.

(and when people say 50 turns, they mean 50 character turns, so around 2~3 full rounds)

Yep. Doesn't it also record how many times you use CHARIOT?

 

[Teknoman]

Really excited about this game, will be my first time playing.

Now, the OP says you don’t get EXP and SP until at the end of battle, but is the EXP and SP still determined by the amount of actions a character takes, or is it split evenly for everyone on your team?

I'd like to know this too.

 

[TheChillyAcademic]

Fie for the Black Queen tattoos on her pies.

 

[Dead Prince]

I'd like to know this too.

i saw gameplay from JP version and it's not split evenly.

EDIT: nevermind. i was looking at it wrong lol

 

[Jinko]

I'd like to know this too.

I think there is a set amount you get and then a bonus on top of that for individual actions, at least i think thats how it works.

 

[Pein]

Oh god, I swore off UMDs but I want those cards.

 

[Skilletor]

People are making way too big of a deal about the CHARIOT system.

Oh, look, you've lost the battle. Do you want to waste twenty-minutes of your time and redo the enter level, or admit defeat and just redo a few minutes of your battle? Why do people treat it like some badge of honor that they get to redo most of the mission, rather than just a few recent turns?

To me most obnoxious aspect of SRPGs is how freakishly long the battles can be, and that a mistake near the end can often make you redo the entire mission, no matter how absolutely flawless and perfect you performed the first 90% of the level. Yes, I like difficulty in games, but I don't have a lot of patience for redoing sections over and over that I can do perfectly time and time again.

(and when people say 50 turns, they mean 50 character turns, so around 2~3 full rounds)

I'll just re-do the battle. That's the fun of srpgs to me. I don't mind that the feature is there for people who do not think as I do. I just won't use it.

 

[Ricker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEbEMjKitA4


Can`t wait ;P

 

[Joule]

People are making way too big of a deal about the CHARIOT system.

Oh, look, you've lost the battle. Do you want to waste twenty-minutes of your time and redo the enter level, or admit defeat and just redo a few minutes of your battle? Why do people treat it like some badge of honor that they get to redo most of the mission, rather than just a few recent turns?

To me most obnoxious aspect of SRPGs is how freakishly long the battles can be, and that a mistake near the end can often make you redo the entire mission, no matter how absolutely flawless and perfect you performed the first 90% of the level. Yes, I like difficulty in games, but I don't have a lot of patience for redoing sections over and over that I can do perfectly time and time again.

(and when people say 50 turns, they mean 50 character turns, so around 2~3 full rounds)

Doesn't using Chariot also use the Chariot cards you can collect in battle? I would think unless they're really plentiful or the cost of use is low, you wouldn't be able to use it all the time without any thought to it.

 

[duckroll]

Doesn't using Chariot also use the Chariot cards you can collect in battle? I would think unless they're really plentiful or the cost of use is low, you wouldn't be able to use it all the time without any thought to it.

No I think it did at some point in development, but Matsuno removed that constrain when it got annoying/unbalanced.

 

[Nif]

Being able to go back 50 moves sounds awesome to me. I've never played all the way through TO, but despite being one of my favorite games, I thought Final Fantasy Tactics had some stupidly cheap battles.

 

[toythatkills]

Has the PSN shit been confirmed yet? I emailed Square-Enix about a PSN release and got this:

Thank you for contacting SQUARE ENIX support, At this time SQUARE ENIX has not announced that title for release on the PlayStation Network.

Which isn't really confirmation either way, but it doesn't sound like it's coming.

 

[Dresden]

Being able to go back 50 moves sounds awesome to me. I've never played all the way through TO, but despite being one of my favorite games, I thought Final Fantasy Tactics had some stupidly cheap battles.

Regular FFT was too easy... it's not like there were any real penalties for your troops dying. The chariot stuff will definitely come in handy though, especially for trying out new strats.

Now, FFT 1.3. Jesus. Oh my god. Even the "easy-type" version was hell.

 

[Minsc]

I think there is a set amount you get and then a bonus on top of that for individual actions, at least i think thats how it works.

There's a nice summary in the OP:

Leveling

Unlike the original game, levels are now gained by the class instead of the individual units, which means that all new recruits will have similar levels to your own characters of that class. However, it should be taken into account that each time a class levels up, the people currently in the map will gain stats from the level up, thus giving them an advantage over units who join you later and haven't had opportunities to benefit from leveling up the classes. Therefore, grinding early on is not recommended. Another important tidbit is that the party is given bonus experience at the end of each battle, which is given to each class according to how many of its units were used. The more units of x class you use in a battle, the more bonus experience it'll get.

It sounds a little weird, but as long as you don't hit a level ceiling too too early should be fine. I guess if you bring all the same class to a battle you must get a huge XP bonus at the end, which may be counter-productive since you're trying to avoid leveling until later in the game (maybe, sounds a little like FF8 to me) when you have better characters join your party.

Then again, if you bring a varied party, 1 member of each class, you'll get XP for that class even though you only have a single member using it, so that may be counter productive too if you're trying to save the level bonuses for later in the game.

 

[Peff]

Doesn't using Chariot also use the Chariot cards you can collect in battle? I would think unless they're really plentiful or the cost of use is low, you wouldn't be able to use it all the time without any thought to it.

I think W.O.R.L.D. and C.H.A.R.I.O.T. are completely separate from the World and Tarot cards that you can use in battle, which do need to be collected and can be used once.

By the way, this google spreadsheet might come in handy for everyone, it has a lot of weapon/item/class/stats information. I'll add it to the OP too, any other suggestions?

 

[Joule]

No I think it did at some point in development, but Matsuno removed that constrain when it got annoying/unbalanced.

Huh. What got unbalanced or annoying about it?

Now I'm just wondering what each tarot card's abilities are if Chariot isn't used for rewinding turns anymore.

 

[Yaweee]

Huh. What got unbalanced or annoying about it?

Now I'm just wondering what each tarot card's abilities are if Chariot isn't used for rewinding turns anymore.

The tarot cards give stats, like they did in the original.

Only in Ogre Battles did they have weird spell effects.

 

[Nif]

Regular FFT was too easy... it's not like there were any real penalties for your troops dying. The chariot stuff will definitely come in handy though, especially for trying out new strats.

Now, FFT 1.3. Jesus. Oh my god. Even the "easy-type" version was hell.

Most fights, sure. Riovanes was very annoying if you didn't know how to cheese your way through the Wiegraf fight, or if you wanted to steal items in the one against Elmdor. There's also a chance that you can lose against Elmdor before taking a move at all if the AI makes a bad decision.

 

[duckroll]

Huh. What got unbalanced or annoying about it?

The Chariot system is optional and meant to help weaker players who aren't doing well in battle, so they can learn from their mistakes without feeling frustrated. Tying some sort of limit and requirement to the system was found to be counter productive to the purpose of the system.

 

[Curufinwe]

I thought Final Fantasy Tactics had some stupidly cheap battles.

 

[Dresden]

Best battle in the game.

 

[Peff]

Then again, if you bring a varied party, 1 member of each class, you'll get XP for that class even though you only have a single member using it, so that may be counter productive too if you're trying to save the level bonuses for later in the game.

You do get XP, but if you bring, say, 8 classes instead of 1, the experience will be divided and of course it'll be harder to level up. As long as you have a somewhat varied party there shouldn't be any problems, level cap is 50 and it takes a while to reach it. Plus the stat gains are permanent even if you later change to another class.

 

[Yaweee]

Best battle in the game.

Tell that to all the people that got hopelessly stuck and had to stop playing the game due to shitty design.

 

[Dresden]

Tell that to all the people that got hopelessly stuck and had to stop playing the game due to shitty design.

Wouldn't be a problem if they just had a save outside of the castle.

 

[epmode]

Wouldn't be a problem if they just had a save outside of the castle.

Right. But if they didn't, they'd have to stop playing. Due to shitty design.

I remember having to cheese it with that skill that ups your moves per turn.

 

[Joule]

The Chariot system is optional and meant to help weaker players who aren't doing well in battle, so they can learn from their mistakes without feeling frustrated. Tying some sort of limit and requirement to the system was found to be counter productive to the purpose of the system.

That's fair enough. I guess I'll try to make limited use of it myself.

Looking at that google spreadsheet, the Tarot card effects are essentially stat modifiers with their consumable use being buffs/debuffs. I was thinking the special effects they had would be more unique.

 

[Dresden]

Right. But if they didn't, they'd have to stop playing. Due to shitty design.

I remember having to cheese it with that skill that ups your moves per turn.

Not going to defend the decision to lock the player in once they got past the gate, but multiple save files, even on the old playstation with 15-block memory cards, should've been pretty obvious.

 

[Yaweee]

Not going to defend the decision to lock the player in once they got past the gate, but multiple save files, even on the old playstation with 15-block memory cards, should've been pretty obvious.

It isn't always obvious, especially with limited save space back then. There are only a handful of RPGs on the system that lock the player in to boss fights like that.

 

[Skilletor]

I never even knew that Wiegraf battle was a problem until I started reading Gaf.

 

[Augemitbutter]

wiegraf battle was just bad game design. it was the first time a game forced me to restart because my party was too weak.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Right. But if they didn't, they'd have to stop playing. Due to shitty design.

I remember having to cheese it with that skill that ups your moves per turn.

I'm not even sure how you would win if you didn't have a backup save and weren't expecting the fight.

Spoiler

I think I had Ramza as a thief and just had him run around the map's edges 10 times buffing himself while being chased. Even with that strategy, if you don't move just right at the beginning, you can still get hit and killed.

I'm assuming that the player hadn't spend hours grinding for previous battles.

 

[Dresden]

I'm not even sure how you would win if you didn't have a backup save and weren't expecting the fight.

Spoiler

I think I had Ramza as a thief and just had him run around the map's edges 10 times buffing himself while being chased. Even with that strategy, if you don't move just right at the beginning, you can still get hit and killed.

I'm assuming that the player hadn't spend hours grinding for previous battles.

You just needed auto-potion. The end of chapter three is pretty much an upgraded version of the last two fights at chapter 2, anyways.

 

[AwShucks]

It isn't always obvious, especially with limited save space back then. There are only a handful of RPGs on the system that lock the player in to boss fights like that.

I agree the battle could be cheap. Even having beaten the game multiple times I still remember dying on my 3rd and 4th playthroughs. That said, didn't the game warn you before the mission that you should save or something?

 

[Yaweee]

You just needed auto-potion. The end of chapter three is pretty much an upgraded version of the last two fights at chapter 2, anyways.

Auto-potiion couldn't keep up if you didn't buy enough of the higher potions in advance, and most people didn't because chemists mostly sucked. And you'd have needed enough extra points for Chemist to actually get Auto-Potion, which presumably most people wouldn't.

Stop discussing knowledge and strategies that come form mastering the game, anyhow. We're talking about first-time-players getting screwed over. As broken as FFT may be once you know what you're doing, playing it as a regular game without grinding and knowing what classes and skills are imba is pretty challenging.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

This was bad game design. You can't have a squad based tactics game where you're forced to have one unit duel.

Either you're prepared to fight this guy or you're not. And if you're not it means restarting the game, Or cheesing him if you happen to have enough job points from the right jobs to get things done.

 

[JLateralus]

Can't wait to play this. I bought it and Ogre Battle on PS1 about a year after their release for $10 each when a local video store was closing. I started on Ogre Battle first, while I let a friend borrow Tactics Ogre. I never saw it again.

 

[Minsc]

This was bad game design. You can't have a squad based tactics game where you're forced to have one unit duel.

Either you're prepared to fight this guy or you're not. And if you're not it means restarting the game, Or cheesing him if you happen to have enough job points from the right jobs to get things done.

Did the game prevent you from using multiple save spots, I can't remember? I pretty much always cycle between however many the game lets me use, and I don't remember that battle giving me much trouble when I played it anyway.

Apparently you can kill him in one hit before he even gets a turn, or if you use a Chameleon robe his strongest holy sword attacks can't be used on you, but even not knowing any of that, I almost never carry one save through an entire game, simply for the fear of corruption or a bug. Or that.

 

[Brandon F]

So is this the 'Best' TO game? I was always confused on which one is the fan favorite. March of the Black Queen? LUCT? TO64, etc...

I never got a chance to play any of these games, and everyone said to stay clear of the GBA game when that launched way back(mostly because it musta sucked compared to, I believe this). So this will be my first foray.

 

[Quixzlizx]

/\/\/\
Tactics Ogre plays completely different from March of the Black Queen and OB64. This is a traditional SRPG, while the other two had squads that moved around a map in real-time.

Did the game prevent you from using multiple save spots, I can't remember?

Why are people defending this bullshit? I always use multiple save slots, but claiming that anyone who doesn't was "asking for it" is pretty stupid.

For people who weren't expecting the fight and didn't have an optimal setup for the fight, they were pretty screwed, especially since you can't even choose which character will fight for you.

 

[JLateralus]

So is this the 'Best' TO game? I was always confused on which one is the fan favorite. March of the Black Queen? LUCT? TO64, etc...

I never got a chance to play any of these games, and everyone said to stay clear of the GBA game when that launched way back(mostly because it musta sucked compared to, I believe this). So this will be my first foray.

Ogre Battle and OB64 are really different games from TO. They're more like a RTS / SRPG combo. I'd say it's just a matter of preference.

Between this and the GBA version though, this is the clear winner.

 

[TommyT]

/\/\/\
Tactics Ogre plays completely different from March of the Black Queen and OB64. This is a traditional SRPG, while the other two had squads that moved around a map in real-time.




Why are people defending this bullshit? I always use multiple save slots, but claiming that anyone who doesn't was "asking for it" is pretty stupid.

For people who weren't expecting the fight and didn't have an optimal setup for the fight, they were pretty screwed, especially since you can't even choose which character will fight for you.

:lol if you're using one save point you're setting yourself up to be screwed

Spoiler

in any game... and yes, I know it's forced in some.

Seriously, if you use 1 slot and this happens and you cry because you have to restart, it's your own fault. Sure, there is an argument to be made if it's bad game design to have a battle like this unexpectedly, but I prefer battles like this in these types of games. If you don't, then you have plenty of options on what to do when a point like this comes. Sorry if you don't like them (your choice of options at that point), but you can't please everybody.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I'm still appalled by the borderline ignorant comments that were made on the PS Blog in regards to the inclusion of tarot cards.

What comments?

 

[Quixzlizx]

:lol if you're using one save point you're setting yourself up to be screwed

Spoiler

in any game... and yes, I know it's forced in some.

Seriously, if you use 1 slot and this happens and you cry because you have to restart, it's your own fault. Sure, there is an argument to be made if it's bad game design to have a battle like this unexpectedly, but I prefer battles like this in these types of games. If you don't, then you have plenty of options on what to do when a point like this comes. Sorry if you don't like them (your choice of options at that point), but you can't please everybody.

Sure you can. You can have an extra save point so you aren't locked into the fight after a cut scene. This has nothing to do with difficulty level... since you can just circumvent it by having multiple save slots, so your point basically boils down to

1. This isn't just a bad design decision, but it's a good one
2. I circumvent this good design decision because "I prefer battles like this in these types of games" with multiple save slots, even though it's good. Obviously you don't think it's a good idea to lock someone in to a certain decision, if you're using multiple saves.

Your argument seems to be rather stupid.

 

[Minsc]

Why are people defending this bullshit? I always use multiple save slots, but claiming that anyone who doesn't was "asking for it" is pretty stupid.

For people who weren't expecting the fight and didn't have an optimal setup for the fight, they were pretty screwed, especially since you can't even choose which character will fight for you.

It's really not entirely stupid. 1 save = no backup, no backup = stupid.

My point is while it may be bad design (sure it is - don't think I said it wasn't), it's also bad gaming on the user too. Both parties are to blame.