AJUMP23
Member
Brilliant contrast
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Star Trek Picard Season 3 |OT| The Next Generation's Fifth Movie
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Brilliant contrast
Power Pro
Member
So I finally watched episodes 2 and 3 for myself. Wasn't really starting off super optimistic with episode 2. Just wasn't that interesting for a long chunk of it, and felt like nothing much actually happened. Not even really any good character moments for Picard or Riker in this episode. Was just a lot of setup for Vadic, which could have been done in a lot less time, but because this is modern television where one story needs to be stretched out for 10 episodes, we get episodes like this one where not much happens.
Episode 3 on the other hand was pretty good I'll admit. The first thing that stuck out to me was when Picard and Beverly were talking to each other about Jack....I liked that Picard actually stood up for himself about being cut out. So used to writers trying to put down men, and not considering that they have as much right to be a father as a mother has for being a mother. Picard was not a person who deserved to be cut off, and by Beverly of all people, and I like that he was pissed about her using what he confided in her as a weapon to use against him. At the same time, the writers...really had to make up a new type of character for Picard. All of a sudden he was living too wild and dangerous of a life for him to be a father in Beverly's eyes? always have a target on his back? Just shows how to shit the galaxy became since TNG if that's the case...Also, whatever life she wanted to keep her son away from...well, she sure didn't do a good job into raising him to be something better.
Anyway, like I said, this was overall a good episode. The conflict between Riker and Picard on the bridge is understandable a little bit, but also a little jarring considering how close they were the last couple of episodes that it comes off as a little sudden. The space action itself is actually pretty good too, which is something nutrek has not done well in a long time, but I liked that I was actually able to follow what was going on, and thought it was kinda cool how the portal weapon was being used.
I'm still skeptical about Star Trek being any good going forward, but I'll at least admit I've gotten some entertainment out of some of these episodes so far. Still think there are problems with the world they're writing for, but they're trying, i'll give them credit for that.
Episode 3 on the other hand was pretty good I'll admit. The first thing that stuck out to me was when Picard and Beverly were talking to each other about Jack....I liked that Picard actually stood up for himself about being cut out. So used to writers trying to put down men, and not considering that they have as much right to be a father as a mother has for being a mother. Picard was not a person who deserved to be cut off, and by Beverly of all people, and I like that he was pissed about her using what he confided in her as a weapon to use against him. At the same time, the writers...really had to make up a new type of character for Picard. All of a sudden he was living too wild and dangerous of a life for him to be a father in Beverly's eyes? always have a target on his back? Just shows how to shit the galaxy became since TNG if that's the case...Also, whatever life she wanted to keep her son away from...well, she sure didn't do a good job into raising him to be something better.
Anyway, like I said, this was overall a good episode. The conflict between Riker and Picard on the bridge is understandable a little bit, but also a little jarring considering how close they were the last couple of episodes that it comes off as a little sudden. The space action itself is actually pretty good too, which is something nutrek has not done well in a long time, but I liked that I was actually able to follow what was going on, and thought it was kinda cool how the portal weapon was being used.
I'm still skeptical about Star Trek being any good going forward, but I'll at least admit I've gotten some entertainment out of some of these episodes so far. Still think there are problems with the world they're writing for, but they're trying, i'll give them credit for that.
DeafTourette
Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
It's not random. Did you not notice their constant flirtations? The admission to her that he was in love with her?
wvnative
Member
Of course I knew he wanted to and loved her, that shit is obvious from episode 1, I just never saw him acting upon it while still her Captain.
DeafTourette
Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Well in dialogue, they had tried their hand at romance... Multiple times. Just because it wasn't on the show doesn't mean it never happened. And I can see them acting on it.
He was her Captain but she wasn't a military officer ... She was chief medical officer. She could take command if needs be but it wasn't her primary nor secondary role. So the rules of fraternization didn't really apply to them.
ManaByte
Member
Someone else who never watched Season 7 and comes into the thread without a frame of reference.
Slicker than your average
Member
The bad guys being changelings is interesting and it's good it's giving lots of ds9 nods.
Unfortunately no matter how they spin it, it makes zero sense some subfaction of the dominion In the gamma quadrant wants revenge on the federation 30 years later.
Unfortunately no matter how they spin it, it makes zero sense some subfaction of the dominion In the gamma quadrant wants revenge on the federation 30 years later.
wvnative
Member
A little spur of the moment kiss ain't the same as shagging lol.Someone else who never watched Season 7 and comes into the thread without a frame of reference.
Anyway it is true, we rarely if ever saw off duty time so perhaps i'm wrong.
ManaByte
Member
They were literally married in the future timeline in that episode.
wvnative
Member
What episode was it?
When I see re runs i rarely run into season 7 episodes, no doubt i've forgotten stuff
ManaByte
Member
Only the biggest episode in the series history.
DeafTourette
Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
"All Good Things..."
wvnative
Member
Ok just wanted to make sure that was it and not a different one.
As i recall, that's a timeline that is now changed, and did the episode mention when they were wed?
DeafTourette
Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
No. Didn't say. But they were divorced... Some of the same stuff still happened in the real timeline that happened in the alternate... Geordi's daughters, Picard's Irumadic Syndrome
Pegasus Actual
Member
Not sure the obsession with things having to be the same as AGT, Ent D w/ third nacelle obviously didn't happen, no dead Troi, presumably no Riker/Worf feud, no Admiral Riker. I never saw AGT as the canonical future of TNG.
That said, nothing wrong with Picard and Crusher having a romance. Teenage-style drama and a secret pregnancy on the other hand...
That said, nothing wrong with Picard and Crusher having a romance. Teenage-style drama and a secret pregnancy on the other hand...
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Yeah, the future version of events in All Good Things is not canon in any way; it was one possible future at that point in time, but completely changed now by their foreknowledge of it. Many key parts of that future were already invalidated. Data still being alive, to name a big one; or Deanna being dead.
But the biggest problem is that All Good Things treated the characters with respect in its future. This show doesn't; it made up an absolutely absurd out-of-character betrayal by Crusher just to have more cheap drama and a reason for conflict. Extremely poor writing.
Let me add that Picard's desire for a family was well known by those close to him (it was the central theme of Generations, after all); and he filled in as a father figure for Crusher's previous son Wesley in so many ways that meant the world to her. Combining those two background facts, there's no way that Beverly would do that to him and just decide to keep their child a secret. If you accept that as canon, you must now accept that Crusher is simply an irredeemable character, a complete fraud compared to what she once was. I'd rather just recognize it as bad fan fiction by a team who doesn't understand how to write for this franchise, and who decided to take a Kirk plot from STII and carry it over to Picard where it makes no sense.
But the biggest problem is that All Good Things treated the characters with respect in its future. This show doesn't; it made up an absolutely absurd out-of-character betrayal by Crusher just to have more cheap drama and a reason for conflict. Extremely poor writing.
Let me add that Picard's desire for a family was well known by those close to him (it was the central theme of Generations, after all); and he filled in as a father figure for Crusher's previous son Wesley in so many ways that meant the world to her. Combining those two background facts, there's no way that Beverly would do that to him and just decide to keep their child a secret. If you accept that as canon, you must now accept that Crusher is simply an irredeemable character, a complete fraud compared to what she once was. I'd rather just recognize it as bad fan fiction by a team who doesn't understand how to write for this franchise, and who decided to take a Kirk plot from STII and carry it over to Picard where it makes no sense.
Last edited:
Power Pro
Member
Yeah, I might have enjoyed the dialogue and acting that took place during Picard and Beverly's conversation, but I think it still absolutely kills Crusher as a likeable character. It'd be one thing if the mother in this scenario was someone the audience had never met, like with Carol Marcus...even she came off as a cold as hell bitch to me who wanted to keep their son to herself because she "wanted him in my world" instead of jumping through the universe with his father. Bitch, that ain't your choice, BUT the difference in that situation was Kirk knew and respected her shitty decision. He stayed away, he knew David existed, she didn't hide his existence from him.
Beverly Crusher doing this hits different because she was a main character of the TNG series, so a part of the audience has some emotional attachment to her, and feels like they know her. Well her doing this to Picard makes her even less likeable because not only does she betray Picard, but she betrays the audience for behaving in such an out of character fashion. Like I said though, I still enjoyed the dialogue in their conversation it is performed well by Stewart and McFadden. The writers were smart for a change by having Picard be rightfully upset, and stand up for himself. Oh sure, some people think Crusher justifies her actions well with the whole "target on his back" excuse, but I don't buy it, because like Picard says, she didn't even give him a chance to step away from that life. Fuck Crusher for raising a son who turned out to be a vigilante, great job...Being the son of a respected "legend" would have been a much worse fate.
FunkMiller
Member
AGT may not be canon, but it's extremely good at setting up and depicting very possible, and even probable, futures for all of the crew. I see no character-wise issue with Bev and Picard having a romance while still on duty together.
Last edited:
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
Understood, but I've seen it brought up so many times in this thread ("see? Geordi's kid has the same name, wow, such deep knowledge of canon") when the problem with STPicard is that they pull out random bits without understanding any of it.
I don't necessarily mind Picard and Beverly having a relationship as captain / Doctor, although there is a quite a lot of precedent against it. See, for instance, the episode where Picard explored a love affair with the piano playing woman, and dropped it at the end solely because he realized it affected his judgement as Captain and his ability to order her into danger (and that was very late in the series... it sort of gave the show's final philosophical statement on why Picard would not see more romance plots going forward).
The big problem with STPicard's rendering of Picard and Beverly isn't the romance itself, though... it's this atrocious idea that she would have suddenly kept their child hidden from him, on the weird premise that it would make him a target for life. That's the second time, by the way, that characters on STPicard have described the Next Generation crew as being some kind of wild, almost reckless, constantly endangered and borderline rogue Starfleet crew out for action. The caption of the Titan said that as well, mocking Picard / Riker to say that he didn't expect explosions and madness today so they'd probably be bored. Everyone talks so strangely about TNG on this show, as if they come from a different timeline where these characters were known for being badasses above all.
Last edited:
Pegasus Actual
Member
Look man, Jack Picard Crusher II just would not be safe at that French vineyard... Didn't you see how that place drove his mumsy to suicide, and how creepy and dangerous the catacombs were in Season 2? You just don't know Star Trek! Best to leave Jean-Luc to it, fighting off assassins and whatnot by himself.
Now being always on the move, Doctoring Without Borders the warzones of the galaxy with Botox Bev was frankly the only way to keep safe. I just hope they have enough time to get back to Earth now and visit the clinic founded by Rios and helps-downtrodden-migrants-doctor-lady located at the intersection of Sickbay Ave and Deck 12 St which served as their inspiration.
Now being always on the move, Doctoring Without Borders the warzones of the galaxy with Botox Bev was frankly the only way to keep safe. I just hope they have enough time to get back to Earth now and visit the clinic founded by Rios and helps-downtrodden-migrants-doctor-lady located at the intersection of Sickbay Ave and Deck 12 St which served as their inspiration.
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
loool
Oberstein
Member
"Patrick Stewart and Michael Dorn used to wrestle"
Looks like a lot of fun on the bridge of the Enterprise D.
The whole interview with Jonathan Frakes is quite interesting.
Looks like a lot of fun on the bridge of the Enterprise D.
The whole interview with Jonathan Frakes is quite interesting.
AJUMP23
Member
You would Think Dorn would destroy Stewart. But they are actors so they may all be weak.
RyuCookingSomeRice
Member
Yup Picard swearing, Shaw and Seven talking about Cannabis. Picard villified for being captured by the borg. Such lazy ass writing on this show.
Power Pro
Member
Revolutionary
Member
Episode 4 was easily the best Picard episode I've seen to date.
The key ingredient?
NO RAFFI
The key ingredient?
NO RAFFI
DeafTourette
Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
Episode 4 was AMAZING!
FunkMiller
Member
A very simple equation:
If you’re not a fan of episode 4 of season 3 of Picard, then you’ve never been a fan of Star Trek.
Glorious stuff.
If you’re not a fan of episode 4 of season 3 of Picard, then you’ve never been a fan of Star Trek.
Glorious stuff.
Last edited:
Pegasus Actual
Member
This episode was, again, just kind of okay. With some terrible stuff, some of which
RyuCookingSomeRice
very succinctly called out.
I'll add a couple more observations. Boy that "The Nebula is obviously giving birth" plot was underbaked. Durr it's logarithmic.. that's a sciency word right guys?!? I figured it all out from my tricorder while dealing with triage down in sickbay with this incompetent Trill twat doctor slowing me down!
"I will not follow a course that'll lead to certain death... that's crazy... what I'll do is follow a course where certain death arrives slightly slower and I can take a few more cracks at recording a TikTok for Troi". Riker with a really weird character arc these last couple of episodes.
Guys this Titan-A's got uhh... old nacelle doors from my Wolf 359 days. Imagine that! And these zoomers we got in the engine room well, they just know the new stuff. We definitely didn't train them about the systems on the very ship they're serving on. That'd be crazy! Guess ya need an oll shithead grease monkey from the windy city! Wish I had some weeeeed tho! (High five Seth Rogen!). Picard's little story about getting the shuttle home with Jack Crusher 1.0 for some reason being the same as whatever they were doing to get out of the nebula was actually much better storytelling than Capn Fuckit's little arc.
The holodeck has a sacred independent power supply so that the crew can use it in their final moments rather than... uhhh... work the problem? Do Starfleet shit? Like okay, kind of weird that you guys are cutting life support and leaving the holodeck running a simulation of some fucking bar... fine, whatever... I can accept Picard got scolded by Capn Riker, and Jack Crusher 2.0 isn't part of the crew, or Starfleet, so no good reason he can't fuck off to the holodeck. But then when the Lower Decks start showing up, and Capn Fuckit on top of that it's just like what the fuck is going on here? The ship's on a timeline of a couple of hours to destruction and these motherfuckers are seriously going to the holodeck to drink fake alcohol. What kind of Gen Z bullshit is this?
I have to remark on Vidic's chopping off her hand which then calls Emperor Snoke(?) That's clearly some shit that'd be more at home in Star Wars. And I'd venture to say it would be kind of stupid if it happened in Star Wars. Someone in the writer's room actually came up with that idea and then nobody shot it down? Ya bein' serious right now?
And finally Jack Crusher 2.0 at the end of the episode starts having some Stranger Things visions of Vecna... Well we'll see where that all goes soon enough I suppose. But it does make me think about Eddie Munson, and how good of a character he was in S4 of Stranger Things, and how seamlessly he fit into the cast in a way that none of these fucks in Picard have, not Elnor, not Raffi, not The Captain Who Doesn't Want to Captain, not Jack Crusher 2.0, not Crash LaForge, not Rios, and not Dr Jabroni, or whatever other crap-ass new characters this show has tried to throw at us.
RyuCookingSomeRice
very succinctly called out.I'll add a couple more observations. Boy that "The Nebula is obviously giving birth" plot was underbaked. Durr it's logarithmic.. that's a sciency word right guys?!? I figured it all out from my tricorder while dealing with triage down in sickbay with this incompetent Trill twat doctor slowing me down!
"I will not follow a course that'll lead to certain death... that's crazy... what I'll do is follow a course where certain death arrives slightly slower and I can take a few more cracks at recording a TikTok for Troi". Riker with a really weird character arc these last couple of episodes.
Guys this Titan-A's got uhh... old nacelle doors from my Wolf 359 days. Imagine that! And these zoomers we got in the engine room well, they just know the new stuff. We definitely didn't train them about the systems on the very ship they're serving on. That'd be crazy! Guess ya need an oll shithead grease monkey from the windy city! Wish I had some weeeeed tho! (High five Seth Rogen!). Picard's little story about getting the shuttle home with Jack Crusher 1.0 for some reason being the same as whatever they were doing to get out of the nebula was actually much better storytelling than Capn Fuckit's little arc.
The holodeck has a sacred independent power supply so that the crew can use it in their final moments rather than... uhhh... work the problem? Do Starfleet shit? Like okay, kind of weird that you guys are cutting life support and leaving the holodeck running a simulation of some fucking bar... fine, whatever... I can accept Picard got scolded by Capn Riker, and Jack Crusher 2.0 isn't part of the crew, or Starfleet, so no good reason he can't fuck off to the holodeck. But then when the Lower Decks start showing up, and Capn Fuckit on top of that it's just like what the fuck is going on here? The ship's on a timeline of a couple of hours to destruction and these motherfuckers are seriously going to the holodeck to drink fake alcohol. What kind of Gen Z bullshit is this?
I have to remark on Vidic's chopping off her hand which then calls Emperor Snoke(?) That's clearly some shit that'd be more at home in Star Wars. And I'd venture to say it would be kind of stupid if it happened in Star Wars. Someone in the writer's room actually came up with that idea and then nobody shot it down? Ya bein' serious right now?
And finally Jack Crusher 2.0 at the end of the episode starts having some Stranger Things visions of Vecna... Well we'll see where that all goes soon enough I suppose. But it does make me think about Eddie Munson, and how good of a character he was in S4 of Stranger Things, and how seamlessly he fit into the cast in a way that none of these fucks in Picard have, not Elnor, not Raffi, not The Captain Who Doesn't Want to Captain, not Jack Crusher 2.0, not Crash LaForge, not Rios, and not Dr Jabroni, or whatever other crap-ass new characters this show has tried to throw at us.
oMG y R U gAtkeEEping!
Pegasus Actual
Member
Didn't notice that came out so quickly. Gonna have to give it a proper watch tomorrow.
RyuCookingSomeRice
Member
It was aight, but couldnt see shit cause the sets are dark as a black hole
ManaByte
Member
Now Shaw‘s name makes sense. Wolf 359 was his USS Indianapolis. While Sisko was able to forgive Picard eventually, Shaw never could, probably because he was younger at the time.
AJUMP23
Member
I don’t know why the bridge is not well lit anymore. Maybe to show off ill the blinks lights on the bridge.
AJUMP23
Member
It is mediocre. You can’t go home again and it is not as good as TNG. The 4th episode has been the best this season.
DeafTourette
Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
It's been like that since First Contact.
Oberstein
Member
Well, ok, this episode 4 goes in the right direction. There's always something to complain about, but there's been so much worse in the last few years that I've learned to appreciate Nutrek that's less stupid than usual.
And Shaw is probably the best addition so far.
However this holodeck thing isn't honest. When you know you're going to die, the average Starfleet officer will finally get his fantasies... and it won't be pretty:
And Shaw is probably the best addition so far.
However this holodeck thing isn't honest. When you know you're going to die, the average Starfleet officer will finally get his fantasies... and it won't be pretty:
Claus Grimhildyr
Vincit qui se vincit
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
The holodeck thing was just another eye rolling case of a pattern we've seen over and over on Picard: if the writers want something, and it makes no sense for an obvious reason, they just put in a weird throwaway line to "justify" it, which somehow usually makes it even worse.
Whoopi is old and Guinan hasn't aged in centuries? "we can choose to age" lol ok
They wanted Jack Crusher to be British so he seems a little more like Picard, but that makes no sense? "uh he went to a school in London for a bit"
You're in a divert every last bit of power life or death situation but you want a holodeck scene anyway? "it's a separate generator for this exact purpose"
The writers will not be denied if they want something narratively, even if it collides with logic. They just say "we'll put in a line, it's fine"
EDIT - I almost forgot the Odo-pot thing. They wanted a way for Seven to hunt for a changeling, so they created this idea that every changeling needs a pot. In fact, the pot even looked like Odo's... which makes zero sense, his was from the Bajoran doctor who taught him, with no connection to the great link etc at all. On DS9, this idea of finding the changeling's pot was never a thing (yeah they need to sleep, but they don't carry around some ceremonial item for it), you'd just have to use blood tests. I guess they wanted a certain kind of scene with the search, and just completely changed the rules around shapeshifters to make it work.
Whoopi is old and Guinan hasn't aged in centuries? "we can choose to age" lol ok
They wanted Jack Crusher to be British so he seems a little more like Picard, but that makes no sense? "uh he went to a school in London for a bit"
You're in a divert every last bit of power life or death situation but you want a holodeck scene anyway? "it's a separate generator for this exact purpose"
The writers will not be denied if they want something narratively, even if it collides with logic. They just say "we'll put in a line, it's fine"
EDIT - I almost forgot the Odo-pot thing. They wanted a way for Seven to hunt for a changeling, so they created this idea that every changeling needs a pot. In fact, the pot even looked like Odo's... which makes zero sense, his was from the Bajoran doctor who taught him, with no connection to the great link etc at all. On DS9, this idea of finding the changeling's pot was never a thing (yeah they need to sleep, but they don't carry around some ceremonial item for it), you'd just have to use blood tests. I guess they wanted a certain kind of scene with the search, and just completely changed the rules around shapeshifters to make it work.
Last edited:
ResurrectedContrarian
Member
I have a challenge for you all. I want a plausible, minimally rational explanation for the insane "10 Forward Ave" situation on Star Trek Picard.
Make it make sense, somehow, because it seems impossible to do so.
Here's what you have to unify somehow:
- Guinan apparently had a bar on "10 Forward Ave" before joining the Enterprise D
- she returned to it after those years
- but on TNG, 10 forward referrerd to the position of the bar, since it was the forward position of the 10th deck; it wasn't some kind of name she was at liberty to choose
So she had a bar in the past on a street which just magically happened to have the same address as the deck designation of the room on the Enterprise D where she would later bartend? This is such a mind warping illogical idea that I was aghast that they didn't immediately bury it in season 3, but actually returned there to keep reminding us that logic has no place in this new universe.
Make it make sense, somehow, because it seems impossible to do so.
Here's what you have to unify somehow:
- Guinan apparently had a bar on "10 Forward Ave" before joining the Enterprise D
- she returned to it after those years
- but on TNG, 10 forward referrerd to the position of the bar, since it was the forward position of the 10th deck; it wasn't some kind of name she was at liberty to choose
So she had a bar in the past on a street which just magically happened to have the same address as the deck designation of the room on the Enterprise D where she would later bartend? This is such a mind warping illogical idea that I was aghast that they didn't immediately bury it in season 3, but actually returned there to keep reminding us that logic has no place in this new universe.
FunkMiller
Member
Seasons 1 & 2 of Picard are fucking garbage. Season 3 so far has been great. You can either cling to your understandable hate of the first two seasons, or let it go and enjoy what it shaping up to be a much, much better one - probably the best since Ds9 ended. The holodeck bar is based on the one Guinan opened after TNG, as far as I’m concerned. I never watched season 2, so I don’t have a problem with it.
Last edited:
tatotiburon
Member
OMG this season is amazing, after season 1 i fortgot about this show mainly because the season 2 bad reviews from the fans but now with everyone praising season 3 i started to watch season 2 and it was ok, kinda enjoyed it to be truth but now with season 3 JESUSS!! the whole gang, this is the star trek that i always loved it, episode 4 was so epic