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[Hobbygaming]

List says First Party studios.

But it includes 3rd party exclusives lol

 

[Alphagear]

Would still make sense if Sony owns the ip, but i don't know if they do.

They do and Sony also owns the Death Stranding IP yet not there.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Forza Horizon has nowhere near the draw of Gran Turismo

Let me know when GT7 has almost 30 million players like Horizon 5. Or GTS over 12 million players like Horizon 4.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Since 3rd party exclusives are included

Ori eventually released on the Switch
Where's Death Stranding?
Where's Final Fantasy VII remake?
Where's Scorn?
Where's Crossfire X?
Where's The Gunk?

 

[Hobbygaming]

Let me know when GT7 has almost 30 million players like Horizon 5. Or GTS over 12 million players like Horizon 4.

Isn't GT over 80 million sales as a series

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It's pretty impressive to see that when hard data and statistics put plain simple without any subjectiveness, you end up seeing that actually the first party output by all these is pretty much alike.

It's not really objective when you fail to reconcile the different between the magnitude of importance these games represent, through actual sales figures.

You can arguably have a very high metacritic average, and a lot of games released, but if a huge portion consists of indie games that don't sell all that well, or they're niche/obscure AA type releases, then they don't compare up to the same standard of other platforms where a large portion comprise of legit AAA game type sellers that have a much bigger influence on excitement around the platform.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I am part of the market, not the whole market.

part? more like a single customer

Neither ignorant nor cynical. Just a statement of fact. Or are you going to tell me that Marvel films are super high quality productions?

i will answer this at the end

We still had games like Resistance, Puppeteer, and more coming out regularly long after Uncharted released. This continued into the
PS4 early on and ended around 2016 when they moved HQs and stopped being a Japanese company and started to be an American one.

why do you think that happened?

Dreams and Astrobot are not AAA games. At most it can be argued that Astrobot Rescue Mission is, but as I stated, I am only referring to AAA non-peripheral games. Rescue MIssion is a game released on a peripheral.

this will be adressed at the end as well

They are deficiencies. In much the same way that only consuming citrus fruit will lead to a deficiency in other essential vitamins and nutrients. By only releasing/selling a particular type of product, you are creating a deficiency in others.

They easily can.

Nope and Nope.

Now i will address those issues.

you talk about quality....what do you mean with that?

1. Excellence: the degree of superiority of a product i.e. Production Values compared to others.
2. Conformance to standards: meeting a set of requirements or specifications, such as customer needs, regulations, or best practices.
3. Fitness for purpose: the degree to which a product or service meets the needs and expectations of its intended users.
4. Reliability: the ability to consistently perform as expected over time and under different conditions.
5. Durability: the ability to withstand wear and tear, use and abuse, and continue to function as intended.
6. Safety: the absence of harm or risk associated with a product or service, and the assurance that it won't cause harm.
7. Usability: the ease of use and ability to navigate and operate a product or service.
8. Aesthetics: the degree to which a product or service is visually pleasing or attractive.
9. Customer satisfaction: the degree to which customers are happy, pleased, or satisfied with a product or service.
10. Continuous improvement: the ongoing effort to improve the quality of products, services, or processes by identifying and addressing areas for improvement.

To me, they are no different than a typical Marvel movie. It doesn't innovate, it isn't really all that high of a quality

i will bet; you are taking about point 9....but that is only you, as you state yourself with this: "To me"

that is your opinion, good for you. (we cannot debate about your opinion)

now, arguing in good faith and with honesty.

you cannot see those games and said with a straight face: isn't really all that high of a quality'. c'mon bro. and then you say i am the warrior.

I will help you tho:
the biggest issue with PlayStation's AAA games right now is the sameness of their gameplay and even narrative themes.

the issue here is that when you see the AAA industry (Big Publishers and Developers)

what do you see?

EA: Profit diven by MTX/GaaS
EA Originals has been label for the publishers to support indie games. They talk about in a way in which they are willing to not make profi out of it.

Ubisoft: Most of its revenue comes form MTXs
in 2021:

then in 2023:

assasin's creed infinity:
Assassin's Creed Infinity is an upcoming multiple-games-in-one-package service hub. It's notably not an actual game, but a portal through which players can enjoy multiple Assassin's Creed experiences. Frankly, it sounds a lot like Netflix or Xbox Games Pass, but solely for Assassin's Creed

more like Assasin's Greed am i right.

Take-Two: most of its revenue comes ftom mobile and MTX.

their latest single player "high-quality" as you say. flopped

why? the CEO has its own arguments but:

yep...a Strategic superhero game with a heavy focus on building relationship...what is this...a visual novel?

ABK: Same. most of its revenue is driven by MTXs/GaaS

Activision itself has become the Call of Duty Company.

Square Enix:

and keep in mind S-E. puts a shit ton of A/AA games.

capcom: has become the remake factory


the point is A/AA can't make their money back (in the contexy of AAA publishers/Devs) because of this:

 

[Woopah]

To me the simpelst way to do it is to ask "was the game published by the same company who makes the console". If yes, its first party.

 

[Claus Grimhildyr]

Man, you're absolutely awful at analogies.

No matter how hard you try to push it, the Marvel one is nothing more than the alternate reality/pretentious shit you're specialized in.
As a movie guy I couldn't rate the Marvel movies any lower than I do, absolutely nothing in them appeals to me in the slightest way possible to the point I actually despise them with a driving passion, and yet I love most of "Sony™ games".
The whole radical difference in artistic sensibilities or even objective narrative quality in portraying same themes/characters saw with the Norse Mythology or Marvel's Spider-Man vs Tom Holland movies alone would begin to dismiss your ephemeral point.
Some of "their" games also do things not found anywhere else in the belonging medium and most of the time they represent excellence in many different aspects of production, in some cases arguably all of them, and you disagreeing with these simple facts wouldn't make you the gaming connoisseur you desperately try to be seen as, but rather a pretentious fart of which critical views were probably shifted for personal reasons at one point in time.. thought reinforced by some praises I've see you dispense towards mediocrity I wouldn't play even if paid.

And at last, as an enjoyer of polished single player experiences and despiser of actual mass market appealing shit like Fortinite, Apex, CoD and FIFA, their games were actively fighting against core aspects and practices of this medium I fucking hate, not much different than Nolan movies pushing for 35mm film to be preserved in the digital age.. if you want a proper analogy.

That is until the announced shift towards crap I couldn't give a single shit about like GaaS and whatnot, that is.

Your citrus one is even worse if possible, considering no one only plays first party titles and those brought by PS studios actually represent the very much needed supplements to the general gaming pool.. given how no one else can apparently do games like these.

Why am I not surprised my post triggered Sony warriors like yourself and Chorizo.

You all are way too predictable.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

We still had games like Resistance, Puppeteer, and more coming out regularly long after Uncharted released. This continued into the
PS4 early on and ended around 2016 when they moved HQs and stopped being a Japanese company and started to be an American one.

We still get games like AstroBot, Kena, SIFU, Stray, etc. Your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Claus Grimhildyr]

We still get games like AstroBot, Kena, SIFU, Stray, etc. Your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Kena, SIFU, STray are neither AAA nor first party games. Astrobot isn't AAA. Which is the point of the argument. Try again.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Astrobot, Kena, SIFU, STray are neither AAA nor first party games. Which is the point of the argument. Try again.

Puppeteer ain't AAA yet you listed it. Almost ALL of SCEJ would not be considered AAA either.

So maybe you should try again with whatever argument you were trying to make...?

 

[Sanepar]

How many of these Xbox game are true AAA sp games ?

What xbox lack is simple: triple A single player high quality games.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Isn't GT over 80 million sales as a series

What does that have to do with Horizon 4 and Horizon 5?

He said Forza Horizon has nowhere near the pull of GT, I would say since arguably Horizon 3, Horizon has had more pull than GT and Forza Motorsport combined since.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Probably another user to add to the ignore list, he can keep Eddie company on my list

You aren't fooling anyone.

How many of these Xbox game are true AAA sp games ?

Crackdown 3
Horizon 5
Horizon 4
Halo Infinite
Gears 5

 

[Raonak]

Can't believe we got TLOU2, Ghost of Tsushima, Demons Souls and Miles Morales in 1 year.
Last year was also impressive with Horizon, GOW, and GT7

 

[Woopah]

We still get games like AstroBot, Kena, SIFU, Stray, etc. Your argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Astrobot is published by Sony, but the others are not.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Astrobot is published by Sony, but the others are not.

Sony's recent strategy has been to partner with indie studios to flesh out their diverse AA lineup, rather than develop them internally.

So funds/support are being allocated in this fashion, and we are getting those games as a result of it. Sure, technically it's not "first party", but from a consumer's standpoint it doesn't really matter.

 

[Claus Grimhildyr]

Puppeteer ain't AAA yet you listed it. Almost ALL of SCEJ would not be considered AAA either.

So maybe you should try again with whatever argument you were trying to make...?

I would suggest you re-read the actual arguments made instead of continuing this sad warring performance of yours.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I would suggest you re-read the actual arguments made instead of continuing this sad warring performance of yours.

I did. And you still haven't explained why you brought Puppeteer up. Explain it to me rather than throwing out the term "warrior" every single time someone pushes back against a comment you make.

 

[Sanepar]

You aren't fooling anyone.



Crackdown 3
Horizon 5
Horizon 4
Halo Infinite
Gears 5

Lol no. Crackdown is ultimate trash and class b not triple A.
Forza Horizon is great but is not a pure single player experience. It is a race with multiplayer.
Gears has a good sp game but is not focused on that.
Halo inf same as gears.

I want they creating pure sp games with triple a budget. They will never get European and Asian audience with these games.

 

[Camreezie]

Missing kirbys return to dreamland deluxe and fire emblem engage this year so far alone

 

[StreetsofBeige]

For list war fanatics, dont forget to post charts showing sales per first party game.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Lol no. Crackdown is ultimate trash and class b not triple A.

Ok, but it's AAA by definition.

Forza Horizon is great but is not a pure single player experience. It is a race with multiplayer.

Have you played Forza Horizon?

Gears has a good sp game but is not focused on that.
Halo inf same as gears.

So they are both good SP games, which sold to million of fans that want to play them Sp multiple entries as well as MP, which is also true for several Sony IP.

You didn't say exclusively SP.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Woopah]

Sony's recent strategy has been to partner with indie studios to flesh out their diverse AA lineup, rather than develop them internally.

So funds/support are being allocated in this fashion, and we are getting those games as a result of it. Sure, technically it's not "first party", but from a consumer's standpoint it doesn't really matter.

I think it does matter from a consumers standpoint, since Sony being the publlisher is what led to Astrobot existing. Stray and Kena on the other hand would still exist without an exclusivity deal with Sony.

Same for bigger titles. Horizon 2 and Breath of the Wild need to be published by Sony/Nintendo to exist. Whereas FFXVI and MH Rise would still have existed without any exclusivity deals from Sony/Nintendo.

So there's a difference between a first party title and a third party exclusive.

 

[Banjo64]

Let me know when GT7 has almost 30 million players like Horizon 5. Or GTS over 12 million players like Horizon 4.

GT Sport was probably the worst GT ever and sold 8m copies by 2019.


Has any Forza game ever sold over 3m copies?

 

[Vick]

Explain it to me rather than throwing out the term "warrior" every single time someone pushes back against a comment you make.

He can't, he has nothing to offer other than his paper-thin fabricated caricature of a gaming intellectual spreading shallow and regurgitated- most of the time by actual disingenuous warriors- arguments which fall apart under the tiniest scrutiny.

Everytime that inevitably happens, you get your free "warrior" dismissive card.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Where's all the smaller scale games and VR games for Sony that all got under 80?

The chart only includes one of them. Destruction All Stars, made by Lucid Game, published by Sony. For example Predator HUnting Grounds was released in 2020, has a 56/100 rating and was made by Illfonic, but published by Sony too.

Sony Interactive Entertainment America Published Games - Giant Bomb

Sony Interactive Entertainment America is the North American subsidiary of Sony Interactive Entertainment. SIEA is responsible for publishing and marketing Sony's hardware and software in that region.

www.giantbomb.com

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The only idiot here is you. Go look at the sales data for each Forza Horizon & Forza Motorsport game. Go look at the sales trajectory for Halo games from 4 to Infinite. Why did Halo Infinite never chart in NPD beyond the release month?

Either you're being stupid, or you don't understand what I mean when I say "mass-market, mainstream appealing AAA games". Because the easiest way to measure that are in software sales and revenue. Since Microsoft are like a brick wall when it comes to software sales & revenue, then we only have info like the recent market results from the UK, and general declines in software & services revenue to ascertain that Microsoft's IP are not the heavyweights they either were or what people like you think they are.

Please don't lump Mario Kart together with Gran Turismo when in comes to sales especially in this generation.

Gran Turismo is closer to Forza not MK.


Mario Kart franchise is on another dimension.
MK8 series sold over 60 million units and likely to end up around 85 million units sold which is closer to the total sales numbers of Gran Turismo franchise lol.

That's a stupid qualifier to make. Each GT game has averaged around 10 million in unit sales. So merely two GT games have moved more or less the number of units as the entire Forza Motorsport & Forza Horizon franchises.

Yes MK is in its own league but that doesn't mean GT outclasses the Forza games when it comes to sales; it just means the MK games (specifically the more recent ones; numbers for MK64 and Double Dash were MUCH more modest, especially Double Dash's) outclass GT in sales. At least I was kind enough to throw them in considering they're racing games. You can't bring up MK's outclassing GT sales without bringing up MK being a very different type of racing game. If anything, since Forza Horizon is closer to MK in terms of an arcade racer than to Motorsport & GT, the question could easily be asked: why aren't Forza Horizon sales better?

 

[feynoob]

, I broke down the games in whether they interest me or not.

Xbox
Crackdown 3 - Don't care
Horizon 5 - Don't care
Horizon 4 - Don't care
Sea of Theives - Don't care
HiFi Rush - Good
Gears 5 - Don't care
Flight Simulator - Don't care
Halo Infinite - Good
Psychonauts 2 is debatable - Don't care

Sony
God of war reboot - Good
God of War Ragnarok - Good
Spider Man - Good
Days Gone - Good
Detroit - Good
Spider Man Miles - Good
Ghost of T - Good
TLOU II - Good
Ratchet Rift Apart - Good
Returnal - Good
GT7 - Good
Horizon Zero - Good
Dreams - Don't care
Demon Souls is debatable - Good

Nintendo
Pokemon Games - Don't care
Fire Emblem 2019 - Good
The game next to Fire Emple 2019 on the right - Good
The game at the bottom middle of the 2019 list ?
Paper Mario - Don't care
Xenoblade remake - Don't care
Super Smash Bros 5 - Don't care
Splatoon 3 - Don't care
Xenoblade 3 - Don't care
bayonetta 3 - Don't care
Hyrule Calamity - Don't care
Fire Emblem Heroes - Don't care
Luigis Mansion 2 - Don't care
Animal Crossing. - Don't care

This is much better.
Remember that you dont represent the general audience. What you like doesnt mean others love them. Same can be said on what you dont like.

There is a reason why we have genre and specific games curated for certain groups.

A sport fan wont enjoy a shooter game, just like how a shooter fan wont enjoy a racing game. Everyone has their own interest and what they like.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

OP, you forgot one.

 

[feynoob]

The only idiot here is you. Go look at the sales data for each Forza Horizon & Forza Motorsport game. Go look at the sales trajectory for Halo games from 4 to Infinite. Why did Halo Infinite never chart in NPD beyond the release month?

Either you're being stupid, or you don't understand what I mean when I say "mass-market, mainstream appealing AAA games". Because the easiest way to measure that are in software sales and revenue. Since Microsoft are like a brick wall when it comes to software sales & revenue, then we only have info like the recent market results from the UK, and general declines in software & services revenue to ascertain that Microsoft's IP are not the heavyweights they either were or what people like you think they are.



That's a stupid qualifier to make. Each GT game has averaged around 10 million in unit sales. So merely two GT games have moved more or less the number of units as the entire Forza Motorsport & Forza Horizon franchises.

Yes MK is in its own league but that doesn't mean GT outclasses the Forza games when it comes to sales; it just means the MK games (specifically the more recent ones; numbers for MK64 and Double Dash were MUCH more modest, especially Double Dash's) outclass GT in sales. At least I was kind enough to throw them in considering they're racing games. You can't bring up MK's outclassing GT sales without bringing up MK being a very different type of racing game. If anything, since Forza Horizon is closer to MK in terms of an arcade racer than to Motorsport & GT, the question could easily be asked: why aren't Forza Horizon sales better?

Because you dont have any logic in your thinking.

PS: Exclusive games, dont have PC day1. Started PC games 2 years ago. Still no day1.

Nintendo: Full exclusive. Their console generation is weird. Sometimes good consoles, sometimes shit consoles.

Xbox: Since 2015, they have been doing PC day1 on their windows store. Started supporting steam and eventual day1 since 2019.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/30/...studios-publishing-valve-steam-32-bit-windows

You also have to account Xbox gamepass, which has their games day1. If we go by that metric, their games would have more userbase.

Its why its useless to estimate popularity by sales. Each system have their ups and downs depending on their system and the way they deliver games to their customers.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The only idiot here is you. Go look at the sales data for each Forza Horizon & Forza Motorsport game. Go look at the sales trajectory for Halo games from 4 to Infinite. Why did Halo Infinite never chart in NPD beyond the release month?

Either you're being stupid, or you don't understand what I mean when I say "mass-market, mainstream appealing AAA games". Because the easiest way to measure that are in software sales and revenue. Since Microsoft are like a brick wall when it comes to software sales & revenue, then we only have info like the recent market results from the UK, and general declines in software & services revenue to ascertain that Microsoft's IP are not the heavyweights they either were or what people like you think they are.



That's a stupid qualifier to make. Each GT game has averaged around 10 million in unit sales. So merely two GT games have moved more or less the number of units as the entire Forza Motorsport & Forza Horizon franchises.

Yes MK is in its own league but that doesn't mean GT outclasses the Forza games when it comes to sales; it just means the MK games (specifically the more recent ones; numbers for MK64 and Double Dash were MUCH more modest, especially Double Dash's) outclass GT in sales. At least I was kind enough to throw them in considering they're racing games. You can't bring up MK's outclassing GT sales without bringing up MK being a very different type of racing game. If anything, since Forza Horizon is closer to MK in terms of an arcade racer than to Motorsport & GT, the question could easily be asked: why aren't Forza Horizon sales better?

Relax sales warrior. This thread isn't even about sales to begin with.

Maybe you'll have more luck if you compare Metacritic ratings comparing GT, FM, FH and MK....... (dont bother checking. GT games score the worst)

 

[Marvel14]

You don't get it.

It's not about Metacritics or score averages by somewhat-iffy review outlets in an aggregation system that can be game'd. It's not about quantity of releases.

Most people wouldn't say Microsoft lacks quality games. What they lack are very mainstream, mass-market appeal heavyweight games and IP that are strongly associated with the Xbox brand. Halo is effectively a dead brand. Forza Horizon has nowhere near the draw of Gran Turismo or Mario Kart; neither does Forza Motorsport (which has less of a fanbase than the Forza Horizon games). Gears has stagnated. Flight Sim is extremely niche. Minecraft is more associated with PC, Nintendo and Sony than Microsoft, and does little for the Xbox brand.

Their answer to that has been to buy big publishers with popular hardcore/core-appealing IP that are also mainstream, that they can associate strongly with Xbox through ownership, probably by leveraging Game Pass. The real question is if they should be allowed to buy their way to mainstream market relevance when their own mismanagement of prior-owned IP are why those IP either stagnated or are dying.

Competition law says "probably not"

You gotta love these threads. It takes so little for folk to wanna fight.

 

[bitbydeath]

I think you all just got trolled, OP is not responding, classic troll move.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

GT Sport was probably the worst GT ever and sold 8m copies by 2019.


Has any Forza game ever sold over 3m copies?

Did you read what you quoted?

The conversation was about Forza Horizon.

Each GT game has averaged around 10 million in unit sales. So merely two GT games have moved more or less the number of units as the entire Forza Motorsport & Forza Horizon franchises.

I highly doubt GTS or GT7, or even GT6, outside Forza Horizon 4 5, and 3. You're just lumping Horizon and motorsport together like they all don't sell massively, when it's only Motorsport.

 

[Nautilus]

Expectations for Nintendo are also much, MUCH more laxed compared to Sony or even Microsoft.

Nintendo's games don't need $100 million budgets and huge marketing campaigns. There is also a cultural bias for Nintendo's IPs due to how long they have been around. We saw Sony's arguably most varied 1P output in the PS3 gen, and they almost went out of business for it because all the people who say they want that variety, weren't supporting it at retail.

Can't keep saying one thing and doing something else and not expect people to catch on. If Sony came out tomorrow and said they'd be scaling down to just a single Horizon/GOW/GOT/Spiderman-style game every 2-3 years and pad out the rest of their 1P schedule with new Gravity Rush, MotorStorm, Fat Princess, PS All-Stars etc., you'd get a few big-talkers championing it, and immediately get a bunch of console warriors clowning them on it.

Then a year after all those games dropped they'd all underperform and see record losses because the same people always complaining about Sony not doing many of those types of games anymore will just "conveniently" find excuses to not support them. Or, they'd expect Sony to put them in PS+ Day 1 but simultaneously try finding exploits to pay as little for the service as they possibly can.

Because the types who tend to insist everything come to a sub service Day 1 and those who try abusing loopholes to pay as little as possible for these same services, are usually one in the same.



Different strokes for different folks, but I'd say between the two, Sony have managed a much better means of balancing quality and innovations that resonate with enough the mainstream market because we see the results in the output and the sales/revenue performance of that output. And at least enough of the hardcore/core fanbase are into those games because the wider success can't necessarily happen without the initial appeal to most hardcore/core gamers.

It's a good thing to have variety like HiFi Rush or SIFU, but a successful platform can't rely on only games like those. As a more seasoned or particular gamer you haves your own tastes & needs, but don't underestimate the need by big publishers to appeal to the larger market. Just that some are better (quite a lot better) at finding a balance between innovation & polished familiarity than others.

Again, relating to Sony & Microsoft, Sony have consistently proven to be significantly better in that balance than Microsoft.

Since when expectations on Nintendo games are much more "relaxed"? Have you seen the hype for tears of the Kingdom? And for BOTW? and for Mario Odyssey? And for Smash Ultimate? Metroid Prime 4?

Even smaller stuff, like Kirby, has big expectation behind it(Relative to how big the IP is, of course). If they didn't have, they wouldn't sell as much as them.

And I honestly don't understand the role budget plays here(a lot of games that were developed with pocket change are more hyped/antecipated than Big budget games) but that's on Sony and MS not being able to make smaller, less budget intensive games, and have them sell well. Nintendo can do it because they work hard for it. I played Astro Playroom recently, and that "demo" was better than half the output Sony and MS puts out, and must have costed 5% of what their games usually do.

So do smaller, focused games on certain niches, but don't do weird/experimental stuff that its clearly someone's passion project like Concrete Genie, and then use that as an example that "smaller games don't sell". Sering how many indie and mid budget games sell really well out there, its on Sony and MS shoulder the blame to carry.Make things like Octopath traveler, which must have cost 20% of what FF XVI costs, but its in a genre that people like, and get someone talented behind it to direct the game.

Hell, MS is already on the right track with stuff like Hifi Rush. Why every game needs to cost 100 million dollars? That's on Sony, not the audience.

 

[Nautilus]

They're still first party games if Nintnedo is the publisher. The majority of Nintendo-published games are primarily made by develloeprs they don't own.

The Fire Emblem / Zelda Warrors games are on the list and they are in a simailr situaiton, where they are developed by Koei Tecmo and published by them in Japan.


Games can score high in reveiws without $100 millions budgets and huge markeitng campaigns, that's not a Nintnendo-specific thing.

No, they are not, because the definition of first party games is that you have to own the IP, not necessarily develop it.

Let's not make it complicated guys.

 

[Banjo64]

Did you read what you quoted?

The conversation was about Forza Horizon.



I highly doubt GTS or GT7, or even GT6, outside Forza Horizon 4 5, and 3. You're just lumping Horizon and motorsport together like they all don't sell massively, when it's only Motorsport.

?

FH4 has sold an estimated 1.8m copies, FH3 and estimated 2.5m, and there’s no estimates for 5 yet.

Did you think FH sells gang busters?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

I disagree with this. They are just as at fault with poor balancing as either Xbox is or Nintendo - with arguably *less* innovations than either. Do they resonate with the mass market? Yes, they do. That doesn't mean much though. To me, they are no different than a typical Marvel movie. It doesn't innovate, it isn't really all that high of a quality, despite the tons of money they put into them. They are simply focus tested out the wazzoo with pretty graphics/animations.

Your problem is that you're trying to turn my argument, which is mainly based on actual financial results, into a quality/creativity argument that is very anecdotal to your own preferences and tastes. So of course, your own biases will run paramount in doing that, it's only natural.

But your personal preference is absolutely not in line with the majority of the market. And for the comparisons to Marvel, you fail to see that Sony's games have avoided a lot of the "particular" problems that the MCU's rolled straight into at the end of Phase 3 (getting progressively worst in Phase 4). There is way too much to get into on that note and would be a derail, but suffice to say they are not the same.

Microsoft relied on the same tired trinity for nearly a decade, with failed attempts at expanding that (at least during the last generation, verdict is still out this gen). There is a reason they were known for Forza/Gears/Halo - but that at least provided them some instantly noticeable variety in a racer, third person shooter, and first person shooter.

The reason that trinity became tired is BECAUSE of the failed attempts at expanding and innovating with them. Successful innovation requires the right mix of freshness, familiarity, and polish. Too much of one over the other can cause problems. In the case of Halo/Forza/Gears, it was a case having too little freshness alongside either too much familiarity or too little polish.

Sony for nearly 8+ years now has been known for their "cinematic" games, which the majority offer the same third person perspective with RPG-lite mechanics, lite-crafting mechanics, open world to semi-open world, and a focus on narrative. I would argue that it is even *less* innovative and diverse in that regard. Occasionally we get something interesting like GT7 to help break up that monotony.

Except again, this is your very personal, anecdotal, and biased POV. Keep in mind what I just said about freshness/familiarity/polish. The reason Sony's games that you may think are cookie-cutter, have performed so well in the market, is because they have always managed to strike the right balance of those three elements. And it's a bit ironic seeing you bring up GT7 as "something different" from Sony when that's the seventh installment in a series dating back to 1997.

That's absolutely no judgement on the game, btw. It's just a bit funny to see you state that as something "different from their usual output". Were you supportive of the Last Guardians, Gravity Rushes, Tearaways, Puppeteers, PS All-Stars etc. of their day? What about the planned MP games (live-service or not), given those are different simply for not being single-player games?

Or are you defining "unique" from Sony's stable as being quirkier games like Katamari Damacy, Harvest Moon, Bloody Roar, MGS etc? Because those were never Sony IP to begin with.

This is only discussing the AAA first party non-peripheral games, by the way. When we take into account the A to AA games that both studios release - they are about on even ground, shoring up the deficiencies for both.

Personally, I wish both would go back to how they were in the 7th gen (MS in the first half and Sony in the second half). That is where they had the most diverse line up of games each with something to please everyone. Would love to have quality AAA games that had the same passion and love as their A to AA offerings.

Here's the problem with what you want: is there enough of a market to actually support that financially? Making video games isn't a charity. Most companies need their gaming operations to be self-sufficient, and generate sufficient revenue and net profit. If their games can't do that, then the games which under-perform have to be abandoned.

People didn't support games like Fat Princess, PS All-Stars, MAG, MotorStorm, Puppeteer, Echochrome etc. the way they kept claiming they were going to if more of those games came out. Why should companies take people's words over the real proof: their lack of spending? If there's maybe one thing these subscription services can potentially be good for, it's to
possibly help justify the funding for smaller-scale indie and AA games.

But that would require such services to actually generate the required revenue and net profits to make that happen. PS+ probably manages that for a few indie/AA style releases a year but that number is probably less than 8. After all, they have to consider things like what tier the games are provided in, if the game can lead to some sub growth, the possibility the game may not lead to any sub growth (so production costs would have to be factored against the service's operating costs and revenue as a kind of write-off), etc.

Games can score high in reveiws without $100 millions budgets and huge markeitng campaigns, that's not a Nintnendo-specific thing.

I know. But I'm not really talking about review scores primarily. The expectations are simply different within the media when it comes to companies like Sony & Microsoft compared to Nintendo.

Indie devs FWIW don't have the expectations on their games (in terms of production values, budget sizes, technical ambitions etc.) that certain Microsoft and certainly most of Sony's teams have placed on them. On those factors, a Sony game (for example) has to work a lot harder to earn a 90 compared to a Nintendo or indie game because there are expectations for Sony games when it comes to graphics, story, features (such as accessibility options), scope etc not placed upon Nintendo or indie games, or even most Microsoft games.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I know. But I'm not really talking about review scores primarily.

You seem to.

This thread has to do with first party (and published) game scores. Not sales. Yet you're still harping on sales wars.

 

[VN1X]

Another fanboy bait thread from Pennywise. Perhaps I need to move on from just thread ignore to user ignore...

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

?

FH4 has sold an estimated 1.8m copies, FH3 and estimated 2.5m, and there’s no estimates for 5 yet.

And where are you getting these made up estimates from?

Meanwhile Horizon 5 has almost 30 million players. Horizon 4 and 3 were both over 10+ iirc.

Edit
Horizon 4 was 24 million, https://xboxera.com/2021/03/11/forza-horizon-4-sees-success-on-steam-with-twenty-thousand-concurrent-players-over-24-million-people-have-played-the-game-across-all-platforms/#:~:text=Back in November, in a,by over 24 million people.

Horizon 3 was over 10 million, https://www.windowscentral.com/forza-horizon-3-crosses-10-million-players-xbox-one-and-pc

 

[TidusYuna]

Its a DLC and three Wii U ports, I think it makes sense to leave them off.

This is what I disagree with. Include all the 1st party games that each company released that year for their console. It is part of their output and it is objective.

Xenoblade Torna was more of a standalone game. It was a prequel to Xenoblade 2 and got a physical release. It takes longer to complete it than a lot of the games on that list. But you are entitled to you're opinion. Objectively though, it is a first party release. Same goes for MLB the show and VR games. All first party output that have been excluded from the list.

 

[feynoob]

?

FH4 has sold an estimated 1.8m copies, FH3 and estimated 2.5m, and there’s no estimates for 5 yet.

Did you think FH sells gang busters?

FH4 sold more on steam. Estimate numbers should be way higher than 1.8m, considering the game has been on top weekly steam sales alot.

Also these are the numbers that we have from xbox (gamepass included)

The game had 2m players week 1 in oct 10 2018.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2018/10/10/forza-horizon-4-sees-two-million-players-in-its-first-week/

Playground Games’ Forza Horizon 4, which has been enjoyed by over 24 million players since launch, now features higher fidelity graphics and faster performance, allowing players to zip around beautiful, historic Britain and drive hundreds of the world’s greatest cars in native 4K Ultra HD at 60fps on Xbox Series X. Get behind the wheel faster than ever with quick game resume and dramatically improved load times. With Smart Delivery, the Series X update is a free download to all Forza Horizon 4 owners and Game Pass subscribers.
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/11...box-series-x-and-xbox-series-s-available-now/

I think you are mistaking fh5 with fh4.

Other than that, its useless to think of sales. As long as gamepass exist, FH series would have more userbase.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This is what I disagree with. Include all the 1st party games that each company released that year for their console. It is part of their output and it is objective.

Xenoblade Torna was more of a standalone game. It was a prequel to Xenoblade 2 and got a physical release. It takes longer to complete it than a lot of the games on that list. But you are entitled to you're opinion. Objectively though, it is a first party release. Same goes for MLB the show and VR games. All first party output that have been excluded from the list.

Agreed.

Also, the chart isn't even complete. As you said VR games Sony's baseball games, as well as 56-rated Predator are left off the list. There's probably some Nintendo and MS ones too. Some of the games on the list are made by third party studios but published by Nintendo/Sony/MS, so it seems that is the criteria.

 

[feynoob]

One more thing guys, Sales only matters to those console owners.

Both Xbox and PS have their subscription services. By using that metric, they increase the userbase of their games (While sacrificing the sales of their games).

Which is why sales dont mean much, when that method exists. They can reach wider audience by relying on their subs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

OP,

You missed a few more "traditional games". Here's some more aside from Predator. And these arent even VR games (which many got mediocre scores too).

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Other than that, its useless to think of sales. As long as gamepass exist, FH series would have more userbase.

FH 3 had more userbase and that came out before Gamepass, sold 2.5 million few months after launch and grew. The series is just popular period. FH2 was decent at the time as well.