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[Con-Z-epT]

You answered your own question:

No i did not. Just because i try to understand your problems with the game, it does not mean that i approve your stance on the matter.

Oh yes, the dread of actually having to do anything else but game.....Exactly what people are looking for in games, forced timeslots, because we don`t have that enough at work
It is incredibly stupid because it is a completely unnecessary issue.

It is not unnecessary since it would alter the perception and the feeling of the game significantly.

 

[Haggard]

It is not unnecessary since it would alter the perception and the feeling of the game significantly.

Absolutely disagree...... It would not make any difference at all if you could save instead of using rest-mode except for being leagues more user friendly......
This is just bad design and I bet that this will be a big red question mark in every single review.

Forcing a lock on your gaming system if you don`t want to lose your current progress is probably the most retarded "mechanic" I´ve ever seen. Game design straight out of an 80`s arcade machine........
The player has to do something else? Better punish him!
The player is not the only user of the console? Better punish him!
The player doesn`t like to waste power on rest mode? Better punish him!

 

[Rikku-X]

The main levels are hand crafted, the connecting areas are procedural, so its different every run, but major story stuff and boss fights are same each time.


Pretty sure there's just 1 difficulty, so no user choice. Like Souls. The opening screen before starting warns about this.

So you can't save and have to use the rest mode which still might be broken.

 

[Rikku-X]

Absolutely disagree...... It would not make any difference at all if you could save instead of using rest-mode except for being leagues more user friendly......
This is just bad design and I bet that this will be a big red question mark in every single review.

Forcing a lock on your gaming system if you don`t want to lose your current progress is probably the most retarded "mechanic" I´ve ever seen. Game design straight out of an 80`s arcade machine........
The player has to do something else? Better punish him!
The player is not the only user of the console? Better punish him!
The player doesn`t like to waste power on rest mode? Better punish him!

It really is and makes me think it's about 2 hours long as well.

 

[Endless Fluff]

Absolutely disagree...... It would not make any difference at all if you could save instead of using rest-mode besides being leagues more user friendly......
This is just bad design and I bet that this will be a big red question mark in every single review.

It would make a massive difference because then it wouldn't be a rogue like anymore. The whole point of games like this is to survive as along as possible in one sitting, not play through a prolonged campaign. At some point you'll be able to rush through a full loop in less than 45 minutes, because you get better at the game and you also unlock things that speed up progression. Just like any other rogue like.

This won't be a red question mark in reviews, because it never was in any other rogue like that has been reviewed in the past. Quite the contrary Dead Cells, Risk of Rain 2 and Hades for example are loved by reviewers and they have the same progression.

 

[tommib]

Don’t we open shortcuts and can travel between levels? Do these disappear if you die?

 

[kyliethicc]

It really is and makes me think it's about 2 hours long as well.

A person who is currently playing the game said they have spent over 15 hours so far.

And I can't see the point of needing to save mid-run, that defeats the purpose of the challenge.

Its designed to be replayed. Its very arcade inspired.

 

[sainraja]

Absolutely disagree...... It would not make any difference at all if you could save instead of using rest-mode except for being leagues more user friendly......
This is just bad design and I bet that this will be a big red question mark in every single review.

It also might become clear why it's not an option come release time.

Forcing a lock on your gaming system if you don`t want to lose your current progress is probably the most retarded "mechanic" I´ve ever seen. Game design straight out of an 80`s arcade machine........

I don't think they ever said you should suspend your system in order to save your progress. That is just a system level feature that people can use to bypass the requirement of the game.

The player has to do something else? Better punish him!
The player is not the only user of the console? Better punish him!
The player doesn`t like to waste power on rest mode? Better punish him!

That's how you are choosing to look at it. Their decision might make sense once the game is out. It might be important for the game to work this way (it might not be) but if it's not for you, it's not for you. There are so many other games to choose from. But yes, I don't disagree with what you are asking, a temporary state that you can return to should be added to the game and I am guessing if enough people ask for it, they might just do that.

 

[JTCx]

Absolutely disagree...... It would not make any difference at all if you could save instead of using rest-mode except for being leagues more user friendly......
This is just bad design and I bet that this will be a big red question mark in every single review.

Forcing a lock on your gaming system if you don`t want to lose your current progress is probably the most retarded "mechanic" I´ve ever seen. Game design straight out of an 80`s arcade machine........
The player has to do something else? Better punish him!
The player is not the only user of the console? Better punish him!
The player doesn`t like to waste power on rest mode? Better punish him!

Theres a reason, prevents save scumming. Its part of the genre. If you dont like it too bad. Keep that same energy and complain about risk of rain 2.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

Absolutely disagree...... It would not make any difference at all if you could save instead of using rest-mode except for being leagues more user friendly......
This is just bad design and I bet that this will be a big red question mark in every single review.

Forcing a lock on your gaming system if you don`t want to lose your current progress is probably the most retarded "mechanic" I´ve ever seen. Game design straight out of an 80`s arcade machine........
The player has to do something else? Better punish him!
The player is not the only user of the console? Better punish him!
The player doesn`t like to waste power on rest mode? Better punish him!

First of you are wrong because using rest mode is a work around for the fact that you can not save the game midway through which has to be seen as a conscious design decision.
This renders some of your arguments obsolete.

It is also neither stupid nor bad.

If you are not able to make more space in your life for the game than that is your personal subjective problem.

To call the game design stupid and bad is highly inaccurate, an offence to the developer and could not be further away from the truth.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

First of you are wrong because using rest mode is a work around for the fact that you can not save the game midway through which has to be seen as a conscious design decision.
This renders some of your arguments obsolete.

It is also neither stupid nor bad.

If you are not able to make more space in your life for the game than that is your personal subjective problem.

To call the game design stupid and bad is highly inaccurate, an offence to the developer and could not be further away from the truth.

I'm hoping for all 10s here, I don't think you'll recover if the metacritic is 80.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

I'm hoping for all 10s here, I don't think you'll recover if the metacritic is 80.

I could not care less for metacritics. Let it be 20. I will have my fun.

 

[engstra]

From the sound of it, it seems like people are having quite long runs. In that case it's weird to not have some kind of save system. Not to be able to replay if you die but simply to pick up where you left off. If I'm playing and doing well but it's getting late I'd rather not have to leave my console on until I am able to play next (that could be a matter of days). Must be a way of making a distinction between reload from a death and rebooting the console

 

[nowhat]

I'd rather not have to leave my console on until I am able to play next

Rest mode =/= console on. Unless you have really shitty power, in which case you should consider investing in an UPS (not the delivery company) regardless.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Not being able to save while doing a cycle is bullshit, especially in a game in which typical sessions aren't always very short. It definitely feels like the studio failed to prepare the option to save when leaving to the main menu and they've had to come up with some alternative, even if they're officially saying it was done on purpose.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

It definitely feels like the studio failed to prepare the option to save when leaving to the main menu and they've had to come up with some alternative, even if they're officially saying it was done on purpose.

In a 3 to 4 year development cycle? Doubtful.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I think it was an aesthetic choice; and a lame one.

But TBH; I play one game at a time.. my biggest worry is even as recently as a few weeks ago I had the rest mode functionality just not work on my PS5.

In fact it's never worked consistently.

 

[engstra]

Rest mode =/= console on. Unless you have really shitty power, in which case you should consider investing in an UPS (not the delivery company) regardless.

Rest mode =/= console off either. I know the energy consumption isn't massive but it's still wasteful, I prefer to turn my stuff off. Plus you never know if leaving in rest mode, power might cut out or something and then you lose your game. It's in no way a deal breaker but just seems like such an unnecessary thing to omit from a game.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Not being able to save while doing a cycle is bullshit, especially in a game in which typical sessions aren't always very short. It definitely feels like the studio failed to prepare the option to save when leaving to the main menu and they've had to come up with some alternative, even if they're officially saying it was done on purpose.

I'm pretty sure it's an aesthetic choice.. the game always boots to the beginning, there is no "main menu" when you launch.

Game would have been a nightmare to dev/QA if there wasn't some ability to actually do a save state mid-run.

 

[Haggard]

First of you are wrong because using rest mode is a work around for the fact that you can not save the game midway through which has to be seen as a conscious design decision.

Ah, so pausing via rest mode is already unintentional and the developer simply forgot that this functionality exists on their exclusive target platform

This renders some of your arguments obsolete.

First and foremost this makes the design look clumsy/stupid since rest mode was always going to be there. The user can pause, no matter what housemarque does, so why not at least make the inevitable comfortable for the user?

It is also neither stupid nor bad.

In my opinion it absolutely is. A design choice that´s simply not possible to bruteforce due to OS restrictions but is still left implemented half-broken just to get on people`s nerves.

If you are not able to make more space in your life for the game than that is your personal subjective problem.

Gee, who hasn`t always 3+ hours slots open (considering reported 90+ min runs for just 2 out of 6 biomes probably even more) ....oh right most people with a social life/family. So this game is mostly for school children with lots of free time who don`t mind if a game takes their console hostage... got it.

To call the game design stupid and bad is highly inaccurate, an offence to the developer and could not be further away from the truth.

It is my opinion, and as such is just as valid as yours.

We´ll have to agree to completely disagree concerning this mechanic.

 

[xrnzaaas]

I'm pretty sure it's an aesthetic choice.. the game always boots to the beginning, there is no "main menu" when you launch.

Game would have been a nightmare to dev/QA if there wasn't some ability to actually do a save state mid-run.

I think it's a wrong concept, then. I had zero issues with no saving in a game like Nex Machina, but Returnal is different in a concept to a traditional arcade title that's supposed to have short & intense sessions completed in one go.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I think it's a wrong concept, then. I had zero issues with no saving in a game like Nex Machina, but Returnal is different in a concept to a traditional arcade title that's supposed to have short & intense sessions completed in one go.

Yeah I'm not a fan.

Still waiting on reviews; but I was ready to buy and then wavered backwards when I learned that.

I'm just confused by it.. and the fact they actually tell you to use rest mode makes me kinda giggle lol

 

[3liteDragon]

 

[Lemondish]

I can't believe there are this many people on GAF who are spouting off about a genre they clearly have never ever played.

If you think not being able to save scum through a roguelite is "bullshit", then stay very far away from this genre.

It's like asking why you can't save midway through an MMO dungeon - it is functionality incompatible with the game design.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I can't believe there are this many people on GAF who are spouting off about a genre they clearly have never ever played.

If you think not being able to save scum through a roguelite is "bullshit", then stay very far away from this genre.

It's like asking why you can't save midway through an MMO dungeon - it is functionality incompatible with the game design.

Nobody is talking about savescumming.

They are talking about being able to close the game and start off where they were in the middle of a run. Which is common for roguelites.

 

[rofif]

Pause yes, save no.

Fucking hell even enter the gungeon you can turn off and continue.... And it's hardcore roguelike

 

[DonJorginho]

Yeah I can't see why you would defend this lack of a save function, it's a glaring oversight and will likely bite them in the arse.

In a game where some runs take upwards of 4-6 hours according to Reviewers (unsuccessful runs may I add!), it is insane to think someone with a normal working life would be able to do that, and for all you say about Rest Mode this and Rest Mode that, that is a shocking "solution". If the only way to not wipe all my progress is to keep my PS5 on every waking minute of the day it isn't worth it, you should be allowed to save once mid run, if you die after accessing a fresh save you have to start from the beginning, much fairer than forcing the user to keep their console on overnight. This will give users a better experience and not allow savescumming to happen.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Yeah I can't see why you would defend this lack of a save function

The reason why is rather obvious lol

 

[dcmk7]

Yeah I can't see why you would defend this lack of a save function, it's a glaring oversight and will likely bite them in the arse.

In a game where some runs take upwards of 4-6 hours according to Reviewers (unsuccessful runs may I add!), it is insane to think someone with a normal working life would be able to do that, and for all you say about Rest Mode this and Rest Mode that, that is a shocking "solution". If the only way to not wipe all my progress is to keep my PS5 on every waking minute of the day it isn't worth it, you should be allowed to save once mid run, if you die after accessing a fresh save you have to start from the beginning, much fairer than forcing the user to keep their console on overnight. This will give users a better experience and not allow savescumming to happen.

Is that solution possible?

I'm not sure whether a game is able to modify save data without user interactive input? (If that was your suggestion).

 

[DonJorginho]

The reason why is rather obvious lol

Do tell me (it's late here forgive my brain for lack of function)

 

[DonJorginho]

Is that solution possible?

I'm not sure whether a game is able to modify save data without user interactive input? (If that was your suggestion).

Similar to a permadeath save could work I guess? I'm no developer so maybe it's not possible but you could allow as many saves over one file only till you die then the file is locked off.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Do tell me (it's late here forgive my brain for lack of function)

People aren't rational about exclusives. (across all consoles, not warring here.. it's just a fact, we had someone be super condescending and claim saves were incompatible with the entire genre.. when even far more hardcore games in the genre save your run if you close the game)

 

[DonJorginho]

People aren't rational about exclusives.

Ohhhh of course, got ya. Sorry wasn't thinking with my fanboy cap on.

 

[DonJorginho]

Brad completing this game is VERY good news for anyone worried about the difficulty of Returnal.

 

[TheMan]

Do you guys think this game would be getting much attention if we weren't so starved for ps5 exclusive content

 

[FrankWza]

Do you guys think this game would be getting much attention if we weren't so starved for ps5 exclusive content

The amount of negativity that was attempted to be pushed on this release might make up for that difference anyway. If it sells well it will be impressive and an achievement.

 

[skit_data]

Brad completing this game is VERY good news for anyone worried about the difficulty of Returnal.

Is he known for being bad at games or what? xD

 

[skit_data]

Do you guys think this game would be getting much attention if we weren't so starved for ps5 exclusive content

It has been on my radar all since I saw it unveiled, but in the last month or two it has kicked into a way higher gear when i saw more clips of it, since I am a big fan of these ”git gud” type of titles and a massive fan of the aestethic and the obvious homages Returnal make to the Alien/Metroid Prime-series and cosmic horror/Lovecraft in general

 

[DonJorginho]

Is he known for being bad at games or what? xD

VERY bad lmaoo, I love Brad but he even struggles with your typical Story games and what not, so yes great news if you're worried about the varying opinions on this game being unbelievably hard.

 

[IntentionalPun]

VERY bad lmaoo, I love Brad but he even struggles with your typical Story games and what not, so yes great news if you're worried about the varying opinions on this game being unbelievably hard.

Well.. someone terrible at games finishing it.. isn't much of a selling point for a game in this genre.

The difficulty is what attracts me to it.

So confused by the previews of this game lol

 

[DonJorginho]

Well.. someone terrible at games finishing it.. isn't much of a selling point for a game in this genre.

The difficulty is what attracts me to it.

So confused by the previews of this game lol

Oh I agree, but I never claimed it was a selling point. Just said it would alleviate fears for those who were wary of it's difficulty, which looking around forums there definitely are some.

I hope the challenge in this game is real, although I am wondering if this has just been overblown as most journalists are, let's face it, shit at games lmao.

 

[Clear]

Nobody is talking about savescumming.

They are talking about being able to close the game and start off where they were in the middle of a run. Which is common for roguelites.

That's how savescumming works, dummy.
You need to be able to reload at will to a point immediately before a RNG event. Then exit the game without saving if you don't get what you want.

 

[Entroyp]

Do you guys think this game would be getting much attention if we weren't so starved for ps5 exclusive content

It looks like a very good game. Period.

 

[TheMan]

So to be clear, to beat the game you have to make it all the way to the end in one sitting (unless you suspend) without dying?

 

[IntentionalPun]

That's how savescumming works, dummy.
You need to be able to reload at will to a point immediately before a RNG event. Then exit the game without saving if you don't get what you want.

That is not what anyone is talking about.

Literally just a save on close function. Not a “save and reload to an earlier point” function. That’s all people want, that’s what other rogue light games have.

If you can’t figure it out, we’ll... dummy.

 

[drotahorror]

That is not what anyone is talking about.

Literally just a save on close function. Not a “save and reload to an earlier point” function. That’s all people want, that’s what other rogue light games have.

If you can’t figure it out, we’ll... dummy.

If it saved on close, you could savescum (in a broader sense atleast), unless the game is always online.

In Hades you can backup every room if you want or backup saves before bosses and keep trying.

It defeats the purpose of these games but if people want to go through the trouble of doing that, especially on console, then, it's w.e

As long as it's removed for leaderboards or any sort of competitive mode.

 

[FrankWza]

What’s the deal with preorder bonus? Any confirmation on physical edition? Is it an insert or is it on your receipt?

 

[SLB1904]

£48
you just have to look

 

[ToadMan]

Do you guys think this game would be getting much attention if we weren't so starved for ps5 exclusive content

Probably not - that’s a reason why a lot of exclusives come about.

Do you think anyone would’ve given a shit about The Medium or Scorn? Of course not.

Same with Godfall.

This is a Sony IP but exclusives get more attention because they affect people’s hardware purchase plans directly.

As it happens, unlike those other exclusives, Returnal seems to be a genuinely great game too which is nice.

 

[LectureMaster]

Not able to save is definitely weird decision, I feel they will have to patch this up, sooner or later.