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Official May 2008 NPD Thread - Wii, GTA IV, and more Wii

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
dammitmattt said:
And I think it's damn impressive that the overall units (software+hardware) have trended up over last generation at much higher prices.
umm.. software is not up in units EXCEPT when including the Wii (taking into account that without Wii this month 100K would have ended at around 5th or 6th), which I thought the entire point on everyone here is that hardcore gamers play 360 and PS3. THAT is what I was attacking. So either hardcore gamers are only on 360 and PS3 in which case core game unit sales are down, or hardcore gamers have migrated over to Wii in which case core games are up and a large number of them are gaming on Wii.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

so pick your side.. is core gaming up and core gamers using the Wii as a serious system, or is it down and no core gamer plays Wii for any substantial period?
 

JudgeN

Member
borghe said:
umm.. software is not up in units EXCEPT when including the Wii, which I thought the entire point on everyonie here is that hardcore gamers play 360 and PS3. THAT is what I was attacking. So either hardcore gamers are only on 360 and PS3 in which case core games are down, or hardcore gamers have migrated over to Wii in which case core games are up on a large number of them are gaming on Wii.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Where are these figures that software is down from last generation, i'm interested to see them.
 

No6

Member
sphinx said:
What GAF thinks is irrelevant.

Capcom being satisfied with sales of products directed towards hardcore gamers on Wii is definitely good news.
You're assuming that Capcom had expectations that would be satisfying to them.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
JudgeN said:
Where are these figures that software is down from last generation, i'm interested to see them.
Just look at the top 10. Without Wii (which people are arguing is not a hardcore gaming system) the top 10 would have petered out at 100K units by 5 or 6. as said just above... my contention is those who say the Wii isn't a core gamer system, but when taking Wii out of the equation overall unit sales are down. You need Wii in the equation for overall unit sales to be up, which thus shows that core gamers ARE gaming on the wii. the critics can't have it both ways.
 

JudgeN

Member
borghe said:
Just look at the top 10. Without Wii (which people are arguing is not a hardcore gaming system) the top 10 would have petered out at 100K units by 5 or 6. as said just above... my contention is those who say the Wii isn't a core gamer system, but when taking Wii out of the equation overall unit sales are down. You need Wii in the equation for overall unit sales to be up, which thus shows that core gamers ARE gaming on the wii. the critics can't have it both ways.

That the best you got, I thought you had real number from the PS2 3 year out the gate. The economy isn't the same as it was 7 years ago it really isn't a fair comparison.
 
Decent discussion here. It's too bad that we don't get more software numbers to really help us understand the big picture in regards to software sales. Hopefully we'll get the Top 10 per platform like we've gotten for the past month or two.

To throw my hat in the ring, I've put up some analysis up on my shitty blog (with some graphs). Here's the full text:

Nintendo's Takeaways

As has been the trend for well over a year now, Nintendo has done a stellar job in May with both Wii and DS. Hardware sales for both platforms continue to impress, and all indications are that nothing will change in the foreseeable future. On the Wii side, there are some indications that supply might finally be catching up with demand, but it will be a few more months before we can accurately make a judgment in that regard.

Perhaps more impressive is the dominating software performance of the Nintendo platforms. 7 of the Top 10 games appear on Nintendo platforms, and according to a Nintendo press release, titles from Nintendo systems account for 19 of the top 30 software spots. No matter how you slice it, that's a very successful month for Nintendo.

Perhaps most illuminating, though, is the fact that a number of those software titles are 3rd party offerings. For instance, Guitar Hero 3, Boom Blox, We Ski all made it into the top 30, indicating that Wii's software ecosystem is maturing to the point that 3rd parties can find success.

From this point on, things get somewhat questionable for Wii from a software standpoint. While there's no doubt that Wii will continue to sell through the summer on the legs of Mario Kart and Wii Fit, Nintendo has offered up very few hints as to what it's planning for the rest of the year. E3, which kicks off in July, should provide a clearer picture of how the rest of the year will unfold.

Microsoft's Takeaways

For Microsoft, it might be hard to see a silver lining in the clouds for May. Not only was 360 beaten soundly by Wii (again), but PS3 put in a decent month to the tune of a 20k advantage. Further, only 1 software title made it into the top 10, and even its success is wrapped in negativity - Grand Theft Auto IV has sold well on 360, but it has not provided the hardware boost that many had been expecting.

But things are not quite as bad as they seem at first glance - Microsoft saw a year over year sales increase of 21% (186.6 this month compared to 155k in May '07). Taken in and of itself, that's a decent sales increase, especially in light of the increased competition from Sony (in fact, that all consoles saw a huge increase this year compared to last shows how well the industry is doing in general). However, it's the very competition itself that makes 360's year over year increase less important. Fair or unfair, a console's performance is not viewed in a vacuum - raw numbers are important, but relative success compared to competitors is also important.

Maybe Microsoft is content to trade market share for probability, or maybe they are still convinced that they can have both. Regardless of their intentions, though, 360's failure to capitalize on their early market share advantage is almost completely due to Microsoft's unwillingness to consistently and aggressively drop the price of their console. It is simply too expensive to compete with Wii and not cheap enough to differentiate from PS3.

June might not be pretty for 360, but it will see success in July and August with the release of NCAA Football and Madden 09, and games like Too Human, Gears of War 2, Bionic Commando, and Banjo Kazooie should help to create some momentum going into the holidays. Ultimately, Microsoft is trying to make it through this slow part of the year at the status quo, but like an old tube of toothpaste, there just aren't a lot of sales left to squeeze out at this price point.

Sony's Takeaways

While in the same boat as 360 in relation to Wii, PS3 saw some unexpected success in May. While the 360 version of GTA IV saw a ratio improvement over its PS3 counterpart, PS3 hardware saw a healthy increase month over month, which is even more impressive when compared to the slight decrease in 360 hardware sales from April.

This is an interesting point in PS3's life cycle. On one hand, the memories of lofty expectations (buoyed by PS2's huge success) are still fresh. On the other hand, it's been roughly 18 months since launch, and somewhere along the line, reality has set in. PS3 will not be the next PS2, it's that simple.

So what is Sony to do? Well, they're actually doing a pretty good job (their initial failures aside) - considering the awful start that the console had, the top brass has been pretty successful in maintaining some positive consumer association with PS3. With a moral victory in May over Microsoft, Sony is riding high going into June. Metal Gear Solid 4, released today, will not set the world on fire sales-wise, but it should prove to be moderately popular with the hardcore gaming community, and hardware sales should spike in similarly solid (though not spectacular) fashion.

Overall Impressions

- Nintendo has done it again. Not only did they dominate in hardware sales, but it's becoming increasingly obvious that software sales on Wii and DS are a force to be reckoned with. Watch for that trend to continue in the upcoming summer months.

- Microsoft had better brace itself for a tough June. After a disappointing May, watch for Sony to ride the popularity of Metal Gear Solid 4 to a more apparent victory in June. The popularity of NCAA Football and Madden will help to even things out in July and August, but Microsoft really needs to consider a price drop in the upcoming months.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
DammitMatt: I don't know about your theory. The top selling games are irrelevant IMO. It's the vast majority of games that worry me. I look at a game like GRID and worry. It's a great racing game. It's graphics are absolutely gorgeous. But that game had to have been really expensive to make. And if it's not a chart topper (unlikely), it's gonna post numbers that seem impossible it'll even break even. That's gotta be the concern. With the costs the way they are, there's no middle ground anymore. You're either selling millions of units or you have a game with lousy sales numbers that can't possibly recoup costs.
 

Vinci

Danish
DayShallCome said:
On the Wii side, there are some indications that supply might finally be catching up with demand, but it will be a few more months before we can accurately make a judgment in that regard.

Not according to what Nintendo wants: They don't just want to match the demand in places like Wal-Mart or Best Buy or [insert name of game store]. They want the Wii at Borders, grocery stores, every single place things can be sold. If they're ever able to fully put stock in all the places I imagine they want to, the Wii domination would be un-fucking-believable.
 
Vinci said:
Not according to what Nintendo wants: They don't just want to match the demand in places like Wal-Mart or Best Buy or [insert name of game store]. They want the Wii at Borders, grocery stores, every single place things can be sold. If they're ever able to fully put stock in all the places I imagine they want to, the Wii domination would be un-fucking-believable.

Yeah, good point.

On that line of thought, I'm a little confused as to where the entirety of Wii's stock for May went. Between NA and Japan, there were about 1 million consoles accounted for, right? Did the other 1 million go to Europe? Seems like a pretty big allocation, if true.

Although, with the Euro being so strong, maybe that's not so far fetched.
 

Arde5643

Member
borghe said:
Just look at the top 10. Without Wii (which people are arguing is not a hardcore gaming system) the top 10 would have petered out at 100K units by 5 or 6. as said just above... my contention is those who say the Wii isn't a core gamer system, but when taking Wii out of the equation overall unit sales are down. You need Wii in the equation for overall unit sales to be up, which thus shows that core gamers ARE gaming on the wii. the critics can't have it both ways.
That's not too fair I think - the only really huge games to come out from the HD consoles in the past couple of months have only been GTAIV.

While the Wii had 2 huge games closely in the months : Mario Kart and WiiFit.


Of course, I do agree that Wii is more likely to be played by both hardcore and casual, while HD consoles are much less likely to be played by casuals.
So without doubt, this will eat away into the sales for HD hardcore games like Haze - average/OK big budget games with not much name recognition.
 

Weisheit

Junior Member
JudgeN said:
That the best you got, I thought you had real number from the PS2 3 year out the gate. The economy isn't the same as it was 7 years ago it really isn't a fair comparison.
Well we know for a fact that after 18 months:
"About 50 million games were sold for the Wii in its first 18 months, compared to about 42 million games in the first 18 months of the Playstation 2's life. The Xbox 360 came in at 30"
Knowing the gigantic difference in userbase it'd be pretty foolish to assume that 360 software has sold any where near what the PS2 did after the first 18 months...
 

No6

Member
Vinci said:
Not according to what Nintendo wants: They don't just want to match the demand in places like Wal-Mart or Best Buy or [insert name of game store]. They want the Wii at Borders, grocery stores, every single place things can be sold. If they're ever able to fully put stock in all the places I imagine they want to, the Wii domination would be un-fucking-believable.
Do you also imagine that the Wii will transform into a pony? Because that's about as logical (and meaningful) as selling a $250 electronic device in a grocery store.
 
No6 said:
Do you also imagine that the Wii will transform into a pony? Because that's about as logical (and meaningful) as selling a $250 electronic device in a grocery store.

Fred Meyer (Grocery Store) has an electronics section. I don't see what's so crazy about selling consoles in a grocery store.
 

birdchili

Member
No6 said:
Do you also imagine that the Wii will transform into a pony? Because that's about as logical (and meaningful) as selling a $250 electronic device in a grocery store.
you could get both wii and ds at Shopper's Drug Mart last fall, fwiw.
 

Busaiku

Member
Weisheit said:
Well we know for a fact that after 18 months: Knowing the gigantic difference in userbase it'd be pretty foolish to assume that 360 software has sold any where near what the PS2 did after the first 18 months...
Also for those who missed those numbers earlier, and come in with all the "3rd Party games don't sell", keep in mind that Nintendo did release a chart with the software split being 40/60 in favor of 3rd parties.
So 3rd party games on the Wii for the first 18 months = total 360 games on the 360 (for the first 18 months).

If you missed it earlier.
 

Vinci

Danish
No6 said:
Do you also imagine that the Wii will transform into a pony? Because that's about as logical (and meaningful) as selling a $250 electronic device in a grocery store.

The point is to take the Wii out of the 'gaming ghetto' (so to speak) and make it into something that's as ubiquitous and commonplace in the home as any other item you might buy from one of those stores. It's the first console that could actually do that. And Nintendo isn't stupid - they realize its potential. First though, they have to catch up with demand in the places people are already looking. Then expand from there.
 

markatisu

Member
No6 said:
Do you also imagine that the Wii will transform into a pony? Because that's about as logical (and meaningful) as selling a $250 electronic device in a grocery store.

You do realize they selll dvd players, dvd recorders and other higher end electronic equipment at the Aldi's discount grocery chain here in the Midwest?

Sams Club for the most part is a grocery store as is Costo (just for wholesale groceries), and our Hyvee and Dahls chains sell electronics as well as dvd and blu-ray movies.

So I have no idea where you are going when in the Midwest this is already happening
 

Integra

Neo Member
sonycowboy said:
Many thanks as always for NPD's continued support.

On the hardware front, the Wii continues to slaughter the competition, while the PS3 appears to get a pre-MGS bump? Or did the 360 underperform?

From the software side, it's all GTA, Mario Kart Wii, & Wii Fit, with Wii Fit obviously being supply constrained.

HW
PlayStation 3 208.7K
PlayStation Portable 182.3K
Xbox 360 186.6K
Wii 675.1K
Nintendo DS 452.6K

SW Top 10
Top 10 SKU's May 2008 Rank # Units
(includes CE, GOTY editions, bundles, etc.)
360 GRAND THEFT AUTO IV TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE (CORP) APR 2008 1 871.3K
WII MARIO KART W/ WHEEL NINTENDO OF AMERICA APR 2008 2 787.4K
WII FIT W/ BALANCE BOARD NINTENDO OF AMERICA MAY 2008 3 687.7K
PS3 GRAND THEFT AUTO IV TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE (CORP) APR 2008 4 442.9K
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE NINTENDO OF AMERICA FEB 2007 5 294.6K
WII SUPER SMASH BROS: BRAWL NINTENDO OF AMERICA MAR 2008 6 171.1K
PS2 IRON MAN SEGA OF AMERICA APR 2008 7 130.6K
WII GUITAR HERO III: LEGENDS OF ROCK W/ WIREACTIVISION (CORP) OCT 2007 8 116.8K
NDS POKEMON MYSTERY DUNGEON: EXPLORERS OF DARKNESS NOA APR 2008 9 107K
NDS POKEMON MYSTERY DUNGEON: EXPLORERS OF TIME NOA APR 2008 10 102K


Industry
Dollar Sales May 2007 May 2008 CHG
Video Games $816.3M $1.12B 37%
Video Games Hardware $319.7M $428.6M 34%
Video Games Software $380.8M $536.9M 41%
Video Game Accessories $115.8M $150.8M 30%

*smirks* very interesting to say the least. not surprising with the Wii and its sales, but... it does bring a smile to my face about PS3. I think with MGS4 sales occurring as we speak, it may bring that number up a bit.

I guess we'll have to see what will be in store for all consoles later on down the road.
 

rs7k

Member
Anybody think it's too late to buy more ATVI stock? I bought some at $16 last year, and was wondering if it was smart to buy more at 35. Wedbush Morgan thinks it can go up to 45.
 

No6

Member
Apparently many of you have a much broader idea of what a "grocery store" is. Costco is not a grocery store. Costco is like Target or Super Walmart: a modern department store. Drug stores have always carried electronics and other, more bizarre catagories of items, and are not grocery stores. I've seen PSXs sold at drug stores and NES/SMS sold at Fedco. Not familiar with Fred Meyer.
The point is to take the Wii out of the 'gaming ghetto' (so to speak) and make it into something that's as ubiquitous and commonplace in the home as any other item you might buy from one of those stores. It's the first console that could actually do that. And Nintendo isn't stupid - they realize its potential. First though, they have to catch up with demand in the places people are already looking. Then expand from there.
The Wii is not the first console that can do that (or that has done that) and your entire argument is flawed by the notion that the Wii is some sort of magical box that people will not view as a gaming device. The vast majority of consumers buy their electronics from readily-available big box electronics stores + department stores. Significantly expanding into what are technically specialty stores (bookstores, food stores, etc) doesn't make business sense because people don't usually go there to buy big-budget items.

Maybe if we went back in time 15 years or so before Best Buy reshaped the idea of electronics stores you'd have a point, but calling BB/CC/Target/Costco the "gaming ghetto" is ridiculous.
 
borghe said:
umm.. software is not up in units EXCEPT when including the Wii (taking into account that without Wii this month 100K would have ended at around 5th or 6th), which I thought the entire point on everyone here is that hardcore gamers play 360 and PS3. THAT is what I was attacking. So either hardcore gamers are only on 360 and PS3 in which case core game unit sales are down, or hardcore gamers have migrated over to Wii in which case core games are up and a large number of them are gaming on Wii.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

so pick your side.. is core gaming up and core gamers using the Wii as a serious system, or is it down and no core gamer plays Wii for any substantial period?

So you're saying the PS2 is a core system and the Wii is not? That logic baffles me.

Sales are up across all demographics, both core and casual.
 
borghe said:
Just look at the top 10. Without Wii (which people are arguing is not a hardcore gaming system) the top 10 would have petered out at 100K units by 5 or 6. as said just above... my contention is those who say the Wii isn't a core gamer system, but when taking Wii out of the equation overall unit sales are down. You need Wii in the equation for overall unit sales to be up, which thus shows that core gamers ARE gaming on the wii. the critics can't have it both ways.

The Wii games in the top ten don't just have strictly casual appeal and without Wii, more money would have been spent on other platforms. It's not like if you take the Wii away there's only an empty space in its place.
 

radcliff

Member
No6 said:
You're assuming that Capcom had expectations that would be satisfying to them.


Not sure if you are being serious or not, but why would Capcom green light a project if their estimate of its success wasn't satisfying to them?
 

birdchili

Member
DayShallCome said:
On that line of thought, I'm a little confused as to where the entirety of Wii's stock for May went. Between NA and Japan, there were about 1 million consoles accounted for, right? Did the other 1 million go to Europe? Seems like a pretty big allocation, if true.
they're not much over 1.8million/month yet right? they're upping production to 2.something million, but it's not supposed to actually *be* there until mid-summer (i read this recently, but i'm not certain where). there are also a number of non-europe territories other than us/japan that are getting allocations, so it's not like there's 800k in europe for may.
 
dammitmattt said:
So you're saying the PS2 is a core system and the Wii is not? That logic baffles me.

Sales are up across all demographics, both core and casual.

Agreed (though I'd love to see some numbers from NPD to confirm). Just going by the riduculous year over year growth of the industry in general, it is, at least, probably safe to say that sales are not down in any demographic.
 

Vinci

Danish
No6 said:
The Wii is not the first console that can do that (or that has done that) and your entire argument is flawed by the notion that the Wii is some sort of magical box that people will not view as a gaming device.

So people buying a Wii and Wii Fit together are buying something that's strictly a 'gaming device'? And yes, it's the first that I've ever seen - short of the PS2 with its DVD functionality - that could legitimately be sold in places heretofore largely untouched by gaming. I truly think it can, because it's fundamentally altering how people view it as a device and how they view this industry. Having news folks going from discussing how dangerous gaming, in whatever form it takes on, is to showcasing the Wii without a slight doubt or hesitation is something new. At least in the modern era.

The vast majority of consumers buy their electronics from readily-available big box electronics stores + department stores. Significantly expanding into what are technically specialty stores (bookstores, food stores, etc) doesn't make business sense because people don't usually go there to buy big-budget items.

You're talking about traditional perspectives on what electronics can do, what consumers do, and what can reasonably be sold at stores not ordinarily carrying things like this: But consumers (mainstream ones, ranging from young to old) don't ordinarily go out and buy a video game system, at least not for themselves; and anecdotally, I've seen places with next to no electronics history selling a Wii here and there, like comic book stores and a magazine shop. This thing is able to grab sales from very odd locations, and I think it very well could given that its software lineup continues to expand into avenues that aren't strictly 'games.' [Wii Fit is, in fact, a game, but it's seen by the public as something more than that - a fun way to feel good about themselves.]

Maybe if we went back in time 15 years or so before Best Buy reshaped the idea of electronics stores you'd have a point, but calling BB/CC/Target/Costco the "gaming ghetto" is ridiculous.

I put that in quotes because it's an old term that I was co-opting to represent any stores that already carry video game consoles.
 
1-D_FTW said:
DammitMatt: I don't know about your theory. The top selling games are irrelevant IMO. It's the vast majority of games that worry me. I look at a game like GRID and worry. It's a great racing game. It's graphics are absolutely gorgeous. But that game had to have been really expensive to make. And if it's not a chart topper (unlikely), it's gonna post numbers that seem impossible it'll even break even. That's gotta be the concern. With the costs the way they are, there's no middle ground anymore. You're either selling millions of units or you have a game with lousy sales numbers that can't possibly recoup costs.

GRID has much bigger appeal in Europe.

Also, I would argue that the middle ground these days is XBLM/PSN, handhelds, and in some cases, the Wii.

But just like the movie industry, if companies want to release a big-budget HD game, they better make a good game and market it well. The rewards can be great, but the risks are bigger than ever before. That doesn't mean the "core" games are in trouble, going anywhere, or selling less.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
dammitmattt said:
So you're saying the PS2 is a core system and the Wii is not? That logic baffles me.

Sales are up across all demographics, both core and casual.
no. I'm saying that the Wii IS a core system and that there are plenty out there who play it as a core system, not just as a casual system. I'm saying that software numbers support that there are gamers out there, non-casual gamers, who moved from a PS2 (or XBox or GCN) to a Wii instead of HD and are gaming there without a problem. And as mentioned, support this by the fact that when you take the Wii out of this generation and GCN out of last generation, core game units are down on Sony and MS at like points in their life cycles.

My "core gaming is going down" comment was more a response to people who insist that core gaming only happens on PS360, which statistics show us IS down from last generation against both respective last gen systems. It's only with the Wii added that total unit sales are up. Thus the theory that obviously people are playing core games on Wii, and doing so in numbers enough that preclude it from being thrown away as some "second alternate system for hardcore gamers". Unless you are trying to insist that it is actually casual gamers going out and buying core games, to which I would respond that a casual gamer buying a bunch of core games is in fact a core gamer.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
No6 said:
Apparently many of you have a much broader idea of what a "grocery store" is. Costco is not a grocery store. Costco is like Target or Super Walmart: a modern department store. Drug stores have always carried electronics and other, more bizarre catagories of items, and are not grocery stores. I've seen PSXs sold at drug stores and NES/SMS sold at Fedco. Not familiar with Fred Meyer.

The Wii is not the first console that can do that (or that has done that) and your entire argument is flawed by the notion that the Wii is some sort of magical box that people will not view as a gaming device. The vast majority of consumers buy their electronics from readily-available big box electronics stores + department stores. Significantly expanding into what are technically specialty stores (bookstores, food stores, etc) doesn't make business sense because people don't usually go there to buy big-budget items.

Maybe if we went back in time 15 years or so before Best Buy reshaped the idea of electronics stores you'd have a point, but calling BB/CC/Target/Costco the "gaming ghetto" is ridiculous.
Did you join this forum just to bitch and moan about all things Wii? Because that's all you seem to do. Who gives a fuck what you think constitutes a grocery store? Did you need to drone on about it for three paragraphs? Does it hurt you inside that much? Christ.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Link said:
Did you join this forum just to bitch and moan about all things Wii? Because that's all you seem to do. Who gives a fuck what you think constitutes a grocery store? Did you need to drone on about it for three paragraphs? Does it hurt you inside that much? Christ.
It's a current gen NPD thread. AKA a bunch of "hardcore gamers" coming in and either complaining about the wii or stating that its sales are dependent on retirement homes and day cares.
 

Somnia

Member
markatisu said:
You do realize they selll dvd players, dvd recorders and other higher end electronic equipment at the Aldi's discount grocery chain here in the Midwest?

Sams Club for the most part is a grocery store as is Costo (just for wholesale groceries), and our Hyvee and Dahls chains sell electronics as well as dvd and blu-ray movies.

So I have no idea where you are going when in the Midwest this is already happening

Yep and if you have any Shop N' Saves around its the same thing there...they sell electronic's and rent games to boot.
 
Link said:
Did you join this forum just to bitch and moan about all things Wii? Because that's all you seem to do. Who gives a fuck what you think constitutes a grocery store? Did you need to drone on about it for three paragraphs? Does it hurt you inside that much? Christ.

Don't fret, that's what he did at the last forum he frequented too.
 

Jokeropia

Member
karasu said:
All this giggling about HD consoles here. Their games still sell more than the alternative.
Nope.
bigmakstudios said:
They set a precedent for releasing simplified, minimalistic games on Wii with Wii Sports, Wii Play, etc, which sold shittons.
Those titles are both helped by hardware bundling, and Nintendo's core games (of which there are more) also sold shittons.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
borghe said:
It's a current gen NPD thread. AKA a bunch of "hardcore gamers" coming in and either complaining about the wii or stating that its sales are dependent on retirement homes and day cares.
He doesn't only do this in NPD threads.


EDIT -
DeaconKnowledge said:
Don't fret, that's what he did at the last forum he frequented too.
Figures.
 
borghe said:
no. I'm saying that the Wii IS a core system and that there are plenty out there who play it as a core system, not just as a casual system. I'm saying that software numbers support that there are gamers out there, non-casual gamers, who moved from a PS2 (or XBox or GCN) to a Wii instead of HD and are gaming there without a problem. And as mentioned, support this by the fact that when you take the Wii out of this generation and GCN out of last generation, core game units are down on Sony and MS at like points in their life cycles.

No, 360 > Xbox in both hardware and software.

My "core gaming is going down" comment was more a response to people who insist that core gaming only happens on PS360, which statistics show us IS down from last generation against both respective last gen systems. It's only with the Wii added that total unit sales are up. Thus the theory that obviously people are playing core games on Wii, and doing so in numbers enough that preclude it from being thrown away as some "second alternate system for hardcore gamers". Unless you are trying to insist that it is actually casual gamers going out and buying core games, to which I would respond that a casual gamer buying a bunch of core games is in fact a core gamer.

AGAIN, it's ridiculous to call the PS2 a core system. My point is that Wii+360+PS3 > PS2+Xbox+GC at this point in pretty much every measureable statistic, which tells me that all segments are growing.

I'm not sure why you're trying to pin the "Wii is only casuals" rhetoric on me, and I still think you've failed to provide any proof at all that core gaming is on the decline.
 

Vinci

Danish
borghe said:
It's a current gen NPD thread. AKA a bunch of "hardcore gamers" coming in and either complaining about the wii or stating that its sales are dependent on retirement homes and day cares.

Actually I think his comments were fine in this case; I wasn't especially clear on what my position was in relation to the grand statement I made about the Wii's possible future. It was fair that I be questioned on that.
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
Vinci said:
Actually I think his comments were fine in this case; I wasn't especially clear on what my position was in relation to the grand statement I made about the Wii's possible future. It was fair that I be questioned on that.
Any logical person could infer what you meant. It didn't require a lecture on the semantics of "grocery store."
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
Top 20 is out (well, really top 19)


1. Grand Theft Auto IV (Take 2, Xbox 360)
2. Mario Kart (Nintendo, Wii)
3. Wii Fit (Nintendo, Wii)
4. Grand Theft Auto IV (Take 2, PS3)
5. Wii Play (Nintendo, Wii)
6. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Nintendo, Wii)
7. Iron Man (Sega, PS2)
8. Guitar Hero III (Activision, Wii)
9. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Darkness (Nintendo, DS)
10. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Time (Nintendo, DS)
11. Call of Duty 4 (Activision, 360)
12. Iron Man (Sega, PSP)
13. We Ski (Namco, Wii)
14. Mario Kart (Nintendo, DS)
15. New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo, DS)
16. God of War 2 (Sony, PS2)
17. Game Party (Midway, Wii)
18. Guitar Hero III (Activision, PS2)
19. Haze (Ubisoft, PS3)
20. Super Mario Galaxy (Nintendo, Wii)


Wii-8
DS- 3 (4 if you count Pokemon twice)
360-2
PS3-2
PS2-3
PSP-1
 

sphinx

the piano man
schuelma said:
Wii-8
DS- 3 (4 if you count Pokemon twice)
360-2
PS3-2
PS2-3
PSP-1


Nintendo .- 12
Sony .- 6
MS.- 2

3rd party games charting:

Wii: 3
PS3: 2
360: 2

I think I finally got it... People claiming " 3rd parties don't sell on Nintendo console" are refering to sales in comparison to nintendo's own 1st party games... ahhhh... it now makes sense.
 

radjago

Member
schuelma said:
Top 20 is out (well, really top 19)


1. Grand Theft Auto IV (Take 2, Xbox 360)
2. Mario Kart (Nintendo, Wii)
3. Wii Fit (Nintendo, Wii)
4. Grand Theft Auto IV (Take 2, PS3)
5. Wii Play (Nintendo, Wii)
6. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Nintendo, Wii)
7. Iron Man (Sega, PS2)
8. Guitar Hero III (Activision, Wii)
9. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Darkness (Nintendo, DS)
10. Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Time (Nintendo, DS)
11. Call of Duty 4 (Activision, 360)
12. Iron Man (Sega, PSP)
13. We Ski (Namco, Wii)
14. Mario Kart (Nintendo, DS)
15. New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo, DS)
16. God of War 2 (Sony, PS2)
17. Game Party (Midway, Wii)
18. Guitar Hero III (Activision, PS2)
19. Haze (Ubisoft, PS3)
20. Super Mario Galaxy (Nintendo, Wii)


Wii-8
DS- 3 (4 if you count Pokemon twice)
360-2
PS3-2
PS2-3
PSP-1
Interesting to see what pops up in 11-20. Haze didn't bomb quite so hard then. And Mario Kart Wii pushed Mario Kart DS sales.
 
laserbeam said:
684o77.jpg

Holy shit. Great work. It fit perfectly the situation. :lol
 

milanbaros

Member?
May 2008

PS3 208.7K
360 186.6K
Wii 675.1K

Total = 1070.4k

May 2003

PS2 290k
Xbox 120k
GC 80k

Total = 490k

The industry has expanded and it looks like the Wii that has done it.
 

sphinx

the piano man
was this already posted??

Gamespot said:
Analysts baffled by GTA-hardware disconnect
Industry watchers scratch heads about Rockstar hit's inability to spark Xbox 360 and PS3 system sales.
By Brendan Sinclair, GameSpot
Posted Jun 13, 2008 11:14 am PT

When Grand Theft Auto IV was released in late April, analysts expected the highly anticipated Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 game to inspire gamers on the sidelines of the current-generation console wars to jump into the fray and pick up a system. Even though hardware sales from April and May didn't reflect the expected influx of new PS3 and 360 owners, the industry-tracking NPD Group's own analyst is holding out hope for a GTA-driven bump in June's sales "due to gift-giving for Father's Day and graduations."

In notes to investors today, Wedbush Morgan Securities' Michael Pachter said he was again surprised at GTAIV's inability to drive hardware sales. And without new Xbox 360s and PS3s finding their ways into consumers' hands, the game could lose its sales momentum in a hurry.

"Sales were once again led by GTAIV selling 1.3 million units compared with our estimate of 1.7 million units," Pachter said. "This implies a tie ratio of 28 percent, implying potential for tempering demand over the next several months unless the installed base for PS3 and 360 grows faster."

EEDAR analyst Jesse Divnich suggested this week's release of Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots might have an easier time moving hardware than Rockstar's latest.

"This is likely due to the exclusivity factor as exclusive releases on Sony's platforms have historically shown to be a better hardware driver than that of multi-platform releases," Divnich said.

Nothing new... but I wonder how pachter still has a Job.
 

Vinci

Danish
milanbaros said:
May 2008

PS3 208.7K
360 186.6K
Wii 675.1K

Total = 1070.4k

May 2003

PS2 290k
Xbox 120k
GC 80k

Total = 490k

The industry has expanded and it looks like the Wii that has done it.

Actually, according to your figures, the 1st place console this time outsold the 1st place console of that time; and on down the line. Which really wouldn't say that the Wii expanded things alone, though it's obviously doing most of the heavy lifting.
 
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