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NPD Sales Results for November 2014 [Up3: NPD Data Error, AC:U #5]

B

Bashtee

Member
casiopao said:
If Vita memory card get cheaper and of course it can be pirate, I believe it will be able to reach maybe around 10 million.(15 million will be a huge stretch.)
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I hope and believe the Vita has long legs. It will run for many years as the perfect VN/JRPG machine. I'm totaly fine with that. I also hope we will see a 128gb card, I need more space. My 64gb is filled and doesn't even fit all games. Total bummer.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
Chris1 said:
Am I the only one glad MS doesn't have a ton of exclusives coming out in the next 6 months?

I already have a hue backlog of games as it is, then with MGS, Batman and MM3d if you have a 3ds due out too just makes it worse, I'm stacked for games for a couple of months at least.
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Like I kind of said in my previous post, it isn't like the Xbox One has a system lock when a new year starts that blocks being able to play games that released just 3-4 months ago. I'll be playing Forza Horizon 2 still on top of other games in my backlog (good number of third party games). Haven't really touched Killer Instinct season 2 yet so I'll be playing that also as well as #IDARB and Ori (which I assume is an early 2015 game). Definitely agree that Q1 is a little slow but actually complaining about it when so much released in the past few months? Doesn't make sense to me.
 
1

1st Course

Member
airmangataosenai said:
PSP/Vita moved 700k units last quarter somewhere despite the PSP not really being sold in any noteworthy quantities anywhere we have trackers so someone outside of Japan is buying it. I think you're going to be surprised by the end total for the platform. The final total will be aided rather ironically by Sony not particularly caring about the brand and introducing a successor, and will sell in emerging markets for a long time when it hits bargain prices. I see the final tally clocking in between 15-20 million by 2020. It will end up being the most successful failed system ever, if nothing else.
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Sony always had this ability to sell in markets where Nintendo/MS din't sell shit on. For example PSP apparently sold 6.8m in FY2011 (april 2011- march 2012). I have no idea where they sold that much PSPs considering PSP was completely dead in US/continental Europe by that time, and Japan numbers weren't that high but somehow they managed to do so.

Truth is that the public data available to us don't give full picture, we have no idea how anything is doing outside US/continental EU/Japan.
 
A

Avatar1

Member
RespectThySole said:
I guess you didn't/won't like the boredom of Uncharted, Ratchet, MLB, Killzone, Infamous, etc. Releasing sequels to some of their most popular franchises isn't something exclusive to Microsoft.
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Those arent the only thing they make though. Microsoft has to buy games outside of that grind cycle it seems.

it's ok though. It works for Microsoft so I can't blame them. It's just my personal opinion of course.
 
R

RespectThySole

Member
Avatar1 said:
Those arent the only thing they make though. Microsoft has to buy games outside of that grind cycle it seems.

it's ok though. It works for Microsoft so I can't blame them. It's just my personal opinion of course.
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And what is the difference in the end to you as a consumer? Regardless of whether it is "bought" or made by an internal studio it is still another game on the console. XB1 has many games coming to it that aren't developed by first party devs just as the PS4 does. Do none of those games count just because they aren't made by Sony WWS or MGS?
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
Chris1 said:
Am I the only one glad MS doesn't have a ton of exclusives coming out in the next 6 months?

I already have a hue backlog of games as it is, then with MGS, Batman and MM3d if you have a 3ds due out too just makes it worse, I'm stacked for games for a couple of months at least.
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I guess that's a way to rationalize a truly inane behavior on MS' behalf...

I guess that also leaves the 1 console consumers who aren't that much about shooters and bought just because lowest price and advertising up a creek, eh?
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
The idea that anyone thinks the PSV will still be selling in 2020 is confounding in itself, let alone the notion that it will double or more it's current lifetime sales in a world already flooded and continuing to be flooded with convergent devices.
 
C

Chris1

Member
Bgamer90 said:
Like I kind of said in my previous post, it isn't like the Xbox One has a system lock when a new year starts that blocks being able to play games that released just 3-4 months ago. I'll be playing Forza Horizon 2 still on top of other games in my backlog (good number of third party games). Haven't really touched Killer Instinct season 2 yet so I'll be playing that also as well as #IDARB and Ori (which I assume is an early 2015 game). Definitely agree that Q1 is a little slow but actually complaining about it when so much released in the past few months? Doesn't make sense to me.
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Agreed, if the past few months were dry then I'd expect a ton of games in the first half of 2015, but that's not the case.
 
J

JayhawkerStL

Banned
I've personally enjoyed watching people try to spin Microsoft's good month as cheating or something. They have a product, found a price that people wanted to buy it at, and had a ton of games come out late in the year that helped make those sales feel like a smart choice for the buyers.

In the mean time, I saw a significant number of folks on my friends list start playing playing XB1 games, adding to our FH2 club, and generally enjoying next gen gaming Microsoft style. As a day one adopter, I know that they jumped in when the going was really good. It was a rough several months, but the XB1 is a great next gen console now.

What I think seems to be lost on a folks is that this month, especially after Christmas when many of the consoles get unwrapped, will provide that sense of momentum and help encourage more 360 owners to take the leap. The deals made a ton of sense, no matter how worried one is about Microsoft's bottom line.

Personally, since Sony and Microsoft are not cutting me a check based on their profits, all I really care about is their ability to add to the instal base which provides me more people to play games with and publishers more reasons to invest in games for the the platform.
 
T

tuna_love

Banned
Elandyll said:
I guess that's a way to rationalize a truly inane behavior on MS' behalf...

I guess that also leaves the 1 console consumers who aren't that much about shooters and bought just because lowest price and advertising up a creek, eh?
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What does advertising up a creek mean?
 
A

Avatar1

Member
vinnygambini said:
[img ]http://i.imgur.com/U1GMBDS.gif[/img]
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Let's turn this more positive then. I am an owner of an Xbox one because I am a fan of games so I'll say this.

I'm liking microsoft investing in games outside of that cycle like sunset and scalebound. I think quantum break looks amazing as well.

I really came across sounding mean but damn, as a former hardcore microsoft fanboy until a few years ago, I really have no interest in those franchises. I apologize for the harshness.

I hope they invest in more studios to make more unique games.
 
J

Javin98

Banned
Maxwell House said:
X1 has nothing in 2015?

Halo 5
Quantum Break
Rise of the Tomb Raider
Scalebound
Fable Legends
Crackdown 5
Gears of War Xbone (whatever the next Gears will be called)

Halo 5 alone would be enough to compete with the entire PS4 2015 lineup by itself.
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LMAO! Are you some Halo worshipper or something? I could also say Uncharted 4 can easily compete with all the X1 exclusives in 2015 but that doesn't necessarily make it true as well. And like others have mentioned, Gears Of War is not coming out next year. If you mean a remastered collection, then we can add the Uncharted 1-3 Collection as well to the PS4's list. Scalebound and Crackdown are likely not out next year too. And Rise Of The Tomb Raider? Wow, I don't even....
 
R

RichiRamjag

Member
florin3k3 said:
Nice win for MS. Now, as far as I see it, Sony is it a tough spot. They are now stuck being reactive to MS. they have to see if MS keeps the price drop, which most would assume they will. Even still, Sony has to see if this trend continues or if it was just one big spurt. Makes no sense to do a price drop or something like that if MS can't sustain sales or if price cut was temporary. If they are stuck waiting in December then you run into the issue of January. If they don't drop the price by then, sales are naturally going to be lower because most everybody who wanted a console got it during holidays. Then they will have some AAA titles hitting the market and again, will they boost sales or is a price cut still needed. Time will tell but MS definitely has to keep this momentum going. Raising price would negate all they achieved this month. Will be interesting to see how both companies move forward
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No they're not. Sony has made it quite clear that they do not care if they get outsold in the US. At the end of the day they're going to win globally anyhow.
 
S

sinnergy

Member
JayhawkerStL said:
I've personally enjoyed watching people try to spin Microsoft's good month as cheating or something. They have a product, found a price that people wanted to buy it at, and had a ton of games come out late in the year that helped make those sales feel like a smart choice for the buyers.

In the mean time, I saw a significant number of folks on my friends list start playing playing XB1 games, adding to our FH2 club, and generally enjoying next gen gaming Microsoft style. As a day one adopter, I know that they jumped in when the going was really good. It was a rough several months, but the XB1 is a great next gen console now.

What I think seems to be lost on a folks is that this month, especially after Christmas when many of the consoles get unwrapped, will provide that sense of momentum and help encourage more 360 owners to take the leap. The deals made a ton of sense, no matter how worried one is about Microsoft's bottom line.

Personally, since Sony and Microsoft are not cutting me a check based on their profits, all I really care about is their ability to add to the instal base which provides me more people to play games with and publishers more reasons to invest in games for the the platform.
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Amen
 
J

jryi

Senior Analyst, Fanboy Drivel Research Partners LLC
shinra-bansho said:
Cash isn't there to burn, it's there to make investments to generate a return for and/or to return directly to investors.
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Took me five days to catch up, but I at least I can say with some confidence, that this point isn't stressed enough: you are not in a business, because you have money. You are in a business, because you want to make money.

Also, you can't offset a negative per unit margin by selling higher volumes. I don't believe for a second, that MS can sell a console for $329, pay the parts, manufacturing, shipping, and retail cut, and still make profit. And this is not including their sales&marketing and other overhead. Yeah, they would make money selling games and Live Gold, but they have given those for free, too. When will the customers of November 2014 become profitable?

What is Microsoft's end game? If all the other divisions have an EBIT margin of 35%(?), how can they justify Xbox business?
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
Chris1 said:
Am I the only one glad MS doesn't have a ton of exclusives coming out in the next 6 months?

I already have a hue backlog of games as it is, then with MGS, Batman and MM3d if you have a 3ds due out too just makes it worse, I'm stacked for games for a couple of months at least.
Click to expand...

This got to be the weirdest reason to justify the lack of notable exclusives in half 2015. You know you don't have to play games the second they release, right?

Anyway when people mention "lack of exclusives", usually because it impacts the sales momentum in other words the people not owning the system.
 
G

Guerrilla

Member
jryi said:
Took me five days to catch up, but I at least I can say with some confidence, that this point isn't stressed enough: you are not in a business, because you have money. You are in a business, because you want to make money.

Also, you can't offset a negative per unit margin by selling higher volumes. I don't believe for a second, that MS can sell a console for $329, pay the parts, manufacturing, shipping, and retail cut, and still make profit. And this is not including their sales&marketing and other overhead. Yeah, they would make money selling games and Live Gold, but they have given those for free, too. When will the customers of November 2014 become profitable?

What is Microsoft's end game? If all the other divisions have an EBIT margin of 35%(?), how can they justify Xbox business?
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Long term strategies. Of course they are in it to make money, and having money doesn't mean happily burning it. But if you are a company that's so far in the green, all your business endeavours are long term strategies. They need to stay afloat now, so that they'll make money with the thing in 2 years when these consoles drop to 199, when everyone and their grandma will buy a new console. I'm still fairly optimistic about xbox ones ability to become the go to videophone for older parents/grandparents.

Further money was never really made with consoles but with the games and subsciptions. Licensing fees is where its at. And the initial free subscription is just to get people hooked to the service...
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Chobel said:
This got to be the weirdest reason to justify the lack of notable exclusives in half 2015. You know you don't have to play games the second they release, right?
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Honestly its all I heard when I said that the 1st half of 2015 is disappointing for Xbox one owners from the perspective of exclusives in a different thread.

"you don't speak for all of us"
"holiday 2014 was so amazing that I'll be playing these games well into 2015, I don't need any more games"
"my backlog is too big anyway"
"3rd party is so strong, we dont need exclusives"

And there was me thinking exclusives were important to these guys based on how the ps4 has had no games during fall 2014. The message changes all the time, i cant keep up.
 
1

1st Course

Member
jryi said:
Took me five days to catch up, but I at least I can say with some confidence, that this point isn't stressed enough: you are not in a business, because you have money. You are in a business, because you want to make money.

Also, you can't offset a negative per unit margin by selling higher volumes. I don't believe for a second, that MS can sell a console for $329, pay the parts, manufacturing, shipping, and retail cut, and still make profit. And this is not including their sales&marketing and other overhead. Yeah, they would make money selling games and Live Gold, but they have given those for free, too. When will the customers of November 2014 become profitable?

What is Microsoft's end game? If all the other divisions have an EBIT margin of 35%(?), how can they justify Xbox business?
Click to expand...

Profit was never the goal of Xbox. Microsoft made Xbox so they can get to the living room.

Gates Hopes Xbox Is Key to the Living Room - January 08, 2001

http://articles.latimes.com/2001/jan/08/business/fi-9738

If you googled you will see couple interviews from gates and other MS exces about this.
 
M

Mooreberg

Member
Disaster Nebraska said:
I don't understand why people are cheerleading Microsoft's high sales. They got there the same way they always do: vacant library all year until the holidays, and then end-load it with marketing, bundles, and a few exclusives. This behavior was a little more bearable later in the 360's life when 360 was getting superior multiplats, a ton of indie exclusives, and had a massive library. None of those aspects apply to the Xbox One, yet they're still using the same methodology.

If 2015 is a repeat of 2014 between the X1 and PS4 (i.e. PS4 has a steady stream of games throughout the year but X1 does not) that would be sad. If Holiday 2015 is a repeat of 2014 (i.e. Microsoft gets great sales due to steep price cuts, bundling, and advertising) that would also be sad because Microsoft will likely continue that behavior.
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Well, like I said earlier in the thread, the pricing discounts for holiday season are the direct consequence of PS4 outselling them all year in their primary market. If next year is a repeat as you suggest (and seems plausible, at least before we see what the pricing schemes are at or around E3), then people will once again get steep discounts and more for their money. I guess I see this as improvement over the last hardware cycle where the price drops were just too few and far between. I think to a large extent, Microsoft (and in turn, Sony) played a waiting game where they knew that the Wii was never going to win over the sort of PS2 owners that bought a bunch of high quality third party games. This time, there seems to be a greater sense of urgency because PS4 has not only been the best selling hardware so far, but it will have no deficiency in running the third party games that people want to play. Nobody can wait too long for fans of shooters, sports games, open world games, etc. etc. etc. to make a decision, because neither system is going to be excluded from those releases.

The one thing I disagree with is the notion that exclusives had a whole lot to do with any of these hardware sales. Forza and Sunset appear to have done about as much for Xbox One hardware sales in November as Drive Club did for PS4 in October. Looks at creamsugar's info - the numbers do not lie. Third party games are selling these systems right now, and the biggest games published by Sony and Microsoft this year are very likely going to wind up being the reissues.
 
RedAssedApe

RedAssedApe

Banned
Seems like retailers are putting out more ps4 deals post bf.

Just saw destiny bundle w/kill zone at bestbuy for 399.99. Should have been at this price point for bf. Who cares if it's the white color :p
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
GHG said:
Honestly its all I heard when I said that the 1st half of 2015 is disappointing for Xbox one owners from the perspective of exclusives in a different thread.

"you don't speak for all of us"
"holiday 2014 was so amazing that I'll be playing these games well into 2015, I don't need any more games"
"my backlog is too big anyway"
"3rd party is so strong, we dont need exclusives"

And there was me thinking exclusives were important to these guys based on how the ps4 has had no games during fall 2014. The message changes all the time, i cant keep up.
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Don't really find it too hypocritical. 2014 was pretty much the first full year of the new consoles; i.e.: Not that many games to play anyway even with exclusives.

If anything your point proves why exclusives are important -- XB1 owners will have games to go back to & play during the pretty bare first few months of 2015. It would be a different situation if there wasn't anything that released in late 2014.
Too bad that MCC still has major issues though since that would have helped too.
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
John Harker said:
Honestly, I'm not as bullish as you are. Maybe next generation, but while retail is declining and digital is increasing, I don't see that reaching a point this generation where digital actually allows the 'overall ceiling' of game sales to actually rise. Which wouldn't net out a sales growth (meaning, the rise in digital won't fully offset the the decline of retail).

There's just too many barriers still.
Bad bandwith access, lack of harddrive space, utterly terrible digital merchandising (it's much easier to walk into a store and find content on a shelf, or to hvae a GameStop rep recommend titles to you to pick up) than digital storefronts offer right now. There's less "window shopping" - current behavior tends to have people logging into storefronts when they know a game is out they want, buying that, and not really browsing. You get less product per basket that way.

Plus, digital is tough to gift.

And you can make the argument that 'core users' will simply buy more because they are the ones with the knowledge on how to do that and the equipment and desire and income to purchase more to make up for it... but the downside of that is pricing, because they want it all but are increasingly reluctant to pay full price for it. Just look at Steam for that; yes that audience is buying more than ever, particularly on digital, but that's mostly driven by massive price promotion. And how sustainable is that right now? Especially when the demand for that audience is things like 1080p/60fps, which isn't reasonable in all instances, not all genres, tools, and studious are created the same, but it costs more money to build games like that, but you're only willing to pay less for your games (since you buy so many, and various other reasons). So there's a lot of re-balancing to do here over this generation.

Re gifting: that's why holidays do so well at retail over digital, parents and friends go in to stores and buy for their kids, or buy one for themselves and one for friends. Digital isn't going to make up for any loss, if there aren't 'big games at retail' enough to drive those shoppers to stores. It's immensely important that 'big, AAA games' continue to exist and do well, the industry needs those tentpole 'event' games to get people to go into the store and pick up hardware and accessories and it needs retail representatives to up-sell people on other games as well, to spread awareness.

This gen is in a difficult position, because hardware is killing it but software last gen was doing so much better, people are just buying fewer games which still affects companies bottom line.

I suspect a lot more subscription services, microtransactions and whatnot if digital continues to grow because that revenue has to come from some where. It's not just about selling box software anymore. Or you'll see companies getting smaller as they focus on what is profitable.

I think we need a full revolution in how we actually are merchandised, access, purchase, and play digital games because I don't think the current storefronts are going to cut it long term.

edit:
That isn't written too well, lot's of rambling, but whatever, you get the idea!
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I know I'm late about this, but yeah, there are still problems about selling digital versions of games to a bigger set of customers, and that's why I'm always interested in hearing / thinking about how companies could bring a wider audience to buy on digital stores. Or ways to make people already buying on digital stores buying more games, especially ones that (due to being niche / small projects) can't get enough amount of space on digital storefronts.

For example, I like what I'm hearing about the latest Steam update which introduced Discovery queues, Curators and, overall, more personalised results based on the games you enjoy / what your friends bought. There have been some blog posts from developers on the matter, some of them stating how sales improved thanks to that, but I hope we'll hear more on the matter.

Or, I really like what Iwata stated this January, about rewarding users who spend more on games digitally by creating a programme according to which the more you buy, the less you spend. This made me think (at least) to incremental discounts, of which I talked about already here on GAF (http://neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=781028 this is the first version of incremental discounts, I can't find the other version, more refined, now...whenever I find it, I'll post that link).

Also, I think amiibos could be a way to sell digital SKUs of games in stores while giving to customers something they can collect, not just a mere download code.

Hopefully, we'll hear more on the matter next year from all companies.
 
GHG

GHG

Member
Bgamer90 said:
Don't really find it too hypocritical. 2014 was pretty much the first full year of the new consoles; i.e.: Not that many games to play anyway even with exclusives.

If anything your point proves why exclusives are important -- XB1 owners will have games to go back to & play during the pretty bare first few months of 2015. It would be a different situation if there wasn't anything that released in late 2014.
Too bad that MCC still has major issues though since that would have helped too.
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You say this as if there weren't a ton of 3rd party games released during the last 3/4 months as well.

The majority of what people play on these consoles are 3rd party games.
 
G

GnawtyDog

Banned
jryi said:
Took me five days to catch up, but I at least I can say with some confidence, that this point isn't stressed enough: you are not in a business, because you have money. You are in a business, because you want to make money.

Also, you can't offset a negative per unit margin by selling higher volumes. I don't believe for a second, that MS can sell a console for $329, pay the parts, manufacturing, shipping, and retail cut, and still make profit. And this is not including their sales&marketing and other overhead. Yeah, they would make money selling games and Live Gold, but they have given those for free, too. When will the customers of November 2014 become profitable?

What is Microsoft's end game? If all the other divisions have an EBIT margin of 35%(?), how can they justify Xbox business?
Click to expand...

Market presence and the fear of Apple for the longest time ever - more like strategic importance and "pocket change". The "living room"..... It does not make sense compared to other MS divisions yea...
 
A

abadguy

Banned
Prine said:
Bring it on, those are excellent franchises. MS will be adding new games in between like they've already done this year. D4, Sunset Horizon, Killer Instinct etc
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Yeah the Halo, forza , gears "argument" is always amusing to me, since to make that point they need to actively ignore the existence of other exclusives on the console.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
jryi said:
Took me five days to catch up, but I at least I can say with some confidence, that this point isn't stressed enough: you are not in a business, because you have money. You are in a business, because you want to make money.

Also, you can't offset a negative per unit margin by selling higher volumes. I don't believe for a second, that MS can sell a console for $329, pay the parts, manufacturing, shipping, and retail cut, and still make profit. And this is not including their sales&marketing and other overhead. Yeah, they would make money selling games and Live Gold, but they have given those for free, too. When will the customers of November 2014 become profitable?

What is Microsoft's end game? If all the other divisions have an EBIT margin of 35%(?), how can they justify Xbox business?
Click to expand...

Selling at a loss for a couple years is nothing new to consoles. The previous couple gens attest to that. Were you questioning the Playstation business when they released the PS3?
 
F

Footos22

Member
abadguy said:
Yeah the Halo, forza , gears "argument" is always amusing to me, since to make that point they need to actively ignore the existence of other exclusives on the console.
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Probably because in the 360's last 3 years there was no other exclsuives apart from them.
 
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