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NPD Sales Results For November 2010 [Update 6: PSP, PS2, Move Games]

N

Neuromancer

Member
Jonsoncao said:
this comment is pure gold
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Jonsoncao said:
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2010...t-you’re-not-getting/comment-page-2/#comments

That Addison guy continues to deliver, and he has been spamming the same comparison comments several times already
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:lol

Reminds me of the main character from Big Fan, just switch football to video games.

bigfan.jpg
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Chrange said:
I have to admit, that's a pretty nice spin on making the slower Blu Ray drive a positive (outside of Blu Ray playback) :lol
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the game loads too quickly if you ask me. You don't even have time to make a sandwich.
 
A

Ashes

Member
charlequin said:
You originally took issue with my point about BluRay, which is like the least subjective thing I've said in this entire thread: the dollar value for integrated BluRay playing goes down with every passing day as standalone player get cheaper, to the eventual point where integrated BRD playing will be essentially without monetary value (in the same way that lots of people have more devices than they will ever need that play DVDs now.)

What the information we have access to tells us is that when the PS3 and 360 cross paths in the sales rankings, it's because one of them has done something to shore up their value proposition against the other. Over the course of this year, Microsoft added significantly to their value proposition at both $199 and $299, while Sony basically sat in place (the mirror image of last year, when Sony improved their value significantly and Microsoft sat around.) Without specific factors of great significance (new killer apps, essentially) or external trends (like BluRay changing value in the broader market) that perception isn't going to change itself and the PS3 is not going to start looking like a more appealing value at the same price, with the same features. (The "price advantage" of Move is certainly irrelevant, since for new customers the only prices they're looking at are the $299 Kinect bundle and $399 Move bundle.)

The tl;dr version of this is that unlike before (when the two systems were in striking distance of one another) this move pretty effectively cements that Sony needs to improve the customer-perceived value of their system if they don't want to fall into the sales doldrums again, and since their system is already heavy on secondary "value" that doesn't seem to be working for them at their current price point, that pretty much means cutting the price.
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First of all, I think we're interspersing two or more conversations at the same time. :lol

I think I understand your bluray point but it appears as though you are led to believe to that I'm contradicting you fully. The value of bluray is going down, I already said as much earlier, even if it has always been up in the air anyhow as to how much of an effect it has had. is it one percent, ten per cent, 50 per cent, 75 per cent of sales? If you don't think it's difficult to conjecture, please give an indication of that trend that both of us had already been seeing, I'll give you a margin of era of anything between, one percent and 75%, and at any month. We can only talk about it in the most general of terms, surely? if you agree to that, then surely you agree to see that it's hard to conjecture?
ps. Do we have a breakdown of how many people actually brought a ps3 as a bluray player? If so I'd like to see them. Even if it's an analyst estimate.


Separate to to the bluray issue, I think it's important to note specifically, that the x360 hasn't had a price cut, They were already at mass market price points, with the $199 sku.

The x360 increased it's value at those price points with a remodelled sku and the addition of motion hardware, and tailoring at the retail pricing points that you have mentioned. Whereas Sony had a price cut last year to stir sales.
Just to reiterate that it isn't a mirror image of last year, the x360 has had the kinnect launch to aid it as well.
Which brings me to my next point, whose to know whether the same price cut by sony will stir the same effect? The factors that have to be considered are the following:

* ps3 arriving at $199. When does this happen? What changes? and why? (there is a bunch of people buying it at $299, surely that would mean more people buying it at $199. That's all I'm sure about. :p) one further question: how big or small is the spike?
* Does Kinnect one year post launch, have the same 'hottest' ticket in town vibe to affect sales? Or is the 3ds the be all and end all of all things gaming?
*Does the xbox360 s, one year post launch have the same affect?
*at this price point, will the $299 x360 still sell as much? will ps3 have a $299 move bundle?
*People still want the wii, they don't seem to want wii HD, at $399, will they want it at $299

We can look back on this thread next year, or when the next price cut happens. I honestly don't know whether they (sony) are going to sell better than the x360 in a December month with $199 sku.

edit: You said:
The "price advantage" of Move is certainly irrelevant, since for new customers the only prices they're looking at are the $299 Kinect bundle and $399 Move bundle.

Of course it is irrelevent to new customers at the moment. Which was nicely done by Microsoft. Excellent handle on the perception value.
 
C

Cheech

Member
OldJadedGamer said:
Even Wollan wasn't that super crazy. That's like snah levels.
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The funny thing is that the $149 Sony Blu Ray player I just bought does literally everything on that list except play games. It also does some things the PS3 doesn't, like support Amazon's VOD service and Pandora.

And that would be one of the reasons why the PS3 is bombing.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Ashes1396 said:
I think I understand your bluray point but it appears as though you are led to believe to that I'm contradicting you fully.
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I don't think you're contradicting me fully, I just think you're trying to evoke an ambiguity that isn't there.

We can only talk about it in the most general of terms, surely? if you agree to that, then surely you agree to see that it's hard to conjecture?
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We don't need to know how many people are buying PS3s for BluRay to talk about this. We just need to know that fewer people are doing so now than before (which we do) and that not that many people are buying PS3s (which we also do.) With those two facts together, we can conclude that the degree to which BluRay was a driving force in the PS3's value proposition is declining and will continue to decline in the future, and reasonably surmise that this is one part in the flip-flop of value proposition between 360 and PS3.

Which brings me to my next point, whose to know whether the same price cut by sony will stir the same effect?
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We don't. The assertion on display in this thread isn't that a price cut will propel the PS3 to sell above the 360, only that the only thing that might do so is a price cut (or such a significant value-add as to work as an effective price cut.)

That's the thing. There's no guarantee there's any strategy (or at least, any profitable strategy) that will put the PS3 back over the 360 in the US, just like there was no guarantee that a relaunch and motion peripheral would put the 360 back on top when we had this conversation a year ago. We can eliminate possibilities (for example, "the PS3 will start outselling the 360 again without Sony having to do anything") more easily than we can narrow in on correct predictions based on future changes.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Sipowicz said:
spot. on.

worst marketing campaign sony have ever done, and by far the most useless. shows how far they have fallen.
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I don't think it's useless. Even if it only caters to a certain demographic (that probably already owns a PS3), publishers and retailers stand to make more money from software sales than hardware.
 
F

fernoca

Member
Leonsito said:
No, I was aware of that... thank you for refreshing my memory :(

The Marcus campaing seems like an extension of this one, the same style of marketing year after year.
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PEE ASS PEE
PEE ASS PEE
;D

But yeah, I mean is not that hard (or pricey) putting a bunch of game-related clips, playing along some cool music; yet they prefer to hire actors, write scripts, direct scenes and pay to those involved; to make those crappy stuff and if was working would be fine, but seems as it isn't.
 
A

Ashes

Member
charlequin said:
I don't think you're contradicting me fully, I just think you're trying to evoke an ambiguity that isn't there.

That's the thing. There's no guarantee there's any strategy (or at least, any profitable strategy) that will put the PS3 back over the 360 in the US, just like there was no guarantee that a relaunch and motion peripheral would put the 360 back on top when we had this conversation a year ago. We can eliminate possibilities (for example, "the PS3 will start outselling the 360 again without Sony having to do anything") more easily than we can narrow in on correct predictions based on future changes.
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Take two pcs, with similiar specs at similiar prices, one comes with blu ray, the other doesn't. I'd want the one that does have it rather then the one that doesn't have it. And I have a ps3 with blu-ray inside. I'd think the same with a laptop as well.
I know it's going down, but it's still there, and will be there all generation. It's not enough to go out and buy a ps3 on it own. But on some base level, these advantages exists.
Another thing to consider is that Bluray adoption goes hand in hand with hd adoption. The market for dvd players didn't need a new tv, and more people were not buying a next gen tv as it were. This is slightly different to that market.


You are correct with the second assertion and I agree with it fully. So I don't know why you needed to put me down with your earlier comment, whose point I still am ignorant to. Admittedly, I was half asleep and extremely annoyed with something else non-gaf related, back than...
 
O

OldJadedGamer

Banned
Zoe said:
I don't think it's useless. Even if it only caters to a certain demographic (that probably already owns a PS3), publishers and retailers stand to make more money from software sales than hardware.
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I would dare to say that the vast majority of people who really like this campaign where going to buy those KB advertised games anyway even if that ad campaign didn't exist.

Zoe said:
Been there, done that
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That is still the best ad campaign Sony ever had for the system... except for that stupid ass Spiderman font. Thank God they got rid of that. The problem with this ad is that there really wasn't any great games to show off at the time. They need to bring something cool like this back now that they have a decent price and a good library to show off.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Ashes1396 said:
Take two pcs, with similiar specs at similiar prices, one comes with blu ray, the other doesn't. I'd want the one that does have it rather then the one that doesn't have it.
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Right. That was the old comparison, and it was pretty much the key reason that the PS3 consistently outsold the 360 whenever they had price parity for years -- the PS3 played most of the same games, but it had BluRay and wifi, making it a better deal.

Now that math isn't as simple because all new 360s have wifi, the HDD $299 360 has more storage space than the $299 PS3, and the Kinect 360 includes Kinect (obviously). That's really my underlying point here: there used to be a pretty straightforward value argument for PS3 which is no longer present.
 
B

bigtroyjon

Member
jvm said:
These things are a de facto price drop. I'd like to know how they're figured into Sony's profits. I mean, Sony's been holding the price up to maintain profits, we presume. But doesn't this still ultimately affect their profits, even if it's a sneaky, backdoor price drop?
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Unless it's the retailers doing it on their own without any incentive from Sony of course it will hurt profits but they pretty much have to do it right now to appease the retailers who are sitting on a ton of stock that I'm sure both Sony and the retailers thought would have sold already.

There is also the factor of their yearly shipping forecasts that they have continually predicted to meet. 15 million won't happen unless they are up YOY for the last two quarters which is looking really unlikely at this point. (yes I know it's worldwide but hard to be up yoy worldwide when the US is down 25 percent during the biggest time of year)
 
A

Ashes

Member
charlequin said:
Right. That was the old comparison, and it was pretty much the key reason that the PS3 consistently outsold the 360 whenever they had price parity for years -- the PS3 played most of the same games, but it had BluRay and wifi, making it a better deal.

Now that math isn't as simple because all new 360s have wifi, the HDD $299 360 has more storage space than the $299 PS3, and the Kinect 360 includes Kinect (obviously). That's really my underlying point here: there used to be a pretty straightforward value argument for PS3 which is no longer present.
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Hey, not fair, this is what I've been trying to say. :p
Who is to know whether it will have the same effect as last time? It'll have *some* effect I'm sure. And in addition in the US, Kinnect has been wildly popular it seems.

Was it last November when the x360 sold more than the ps3? Even with the momentum ps3 had? Sony really need to hone in with those black friday deals...

On the price cut issue, I honestly think, Sony should have it as soon as possible in America. They're holding up in the Euro terrotories, and japan, but they need to treat the US radically differently.

With gaming coming to the fore with the launch of 3ds, they should have an American centric price cut at around March. I say this because the 3ds launch price is supposed to be at around $299. If Sony can show the world their psp2 finally, with a separate apple-esque type event, and consequently at the world reveal, 'magically' have a ps3 price cut to $199, then that really could be a little hurtful to the 3ds' launch. Not in launch sales, but going forward, the 3ds costing more than the ps3 just 'may' be hard to stomach.
I mean, who am I kidding? I'm buying it. But Nintendo don't really budge on price, and that's not a casual friendly price. I don't think.
 
D

donny2112

Member
Jtyettis said:
Anyhow, Donny et al, this must be amongst the largest NPD threads eh?
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I think a lot of older NPD threads were deleted with the NPD crackdown in Fall 2006. From ordering threads in the Sales Archive and Gaming Discussion by posts, though, the April 2008 thread at 3518 posts (GTAIV release, no noticeable bump in HD HW sales, Nintendo Wii still selling like it's November) seems to be the highest.
 
A

Ashes

Member
donny2112 said:
I think a lot of older NPD threads were deleted with the NPD crackdown in Fall 2006. From ordering threads in the Sales Archive and Gaming Discussion by posts, though, the April 2008 thread at 3518 posts (GTAIV release, no noticeable bump in HD HW sales, Nintendo Wii still selling like it's November) seems to be the highest.
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So basically when a part of gaf is wrong do we get most conversation...


Ps. April 2010 is going to be big as well.
 
O

OldJadedGamer

Banned
Ashes1396 said:
So basically when a part of gaf is wrong do we get most conversation...
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Not really, just when something drastic happens. This month had a bunch of that so it's made for a super thread. 360 outselling PS3 almost 3:1 in a holiday month, Kinect exploding, GT5's first numbers, Wii making a little comeback from recent months, BLOPS selling 8 million, every Move only game combined selling 200k... lots to talk about on many fronts this month. Kind of like a perfect storm.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Less than half of PS3 time spent gaming - Study
Nielsen examines usage patterns for consoles, finds video streaming, Web browsing, social networking functions on the rise; barely one-quarter of Wii gamers play online.

With the addition of online-enabled functions like video streaming, Web browsing, and social networking, game consoles are increasingly becoming all-purpose entertainment hubs. The results of a Nielsen study released this week provide evidence of that, as the media-monitoring firm determined that some consumers actually spend more time with a console's extended functions than they do playing its games.

The survey--conducted on a general US population sample of unspecified size--determined that PlayStation 3 gamers aged 13 spent an average of 49 percent of their time with the system playing games. The largest share of nongaming time was accounted for by watching movies on DVD or Blu-ray (27 percent), with downloaded and streaming movie watching accounting for another 13 percent.

Gaming accounted for 62 percent of time spent using the Xbox 360, with DVD viewing trailing at 11 percent and downloaded/streaming services totaling another 16 percent of usage time. Gaming dominated Wii usage, accounting for 69 percent of all time on the system. While the system lacks DVD playback capabilities, movie watching was still a prominent secondary activity, thanks to streaming services such as Netflix that accounted for 20 percent of usage time on Nintendo's console.

The survey also broke down each system's gaming time into online and offline play. The Xbox 360 had the smallest disparity between the two, with 34 percent of usage time spent gaming offline, compared to 28 percent online. Despite the PS3's free online infrastructure, only 19 percent of usage time was devoted to online gaming, compared to offline gaming's 30 percent share. The Wii numbers were the most lopsided, with offline play accounting for 57 percent of time on the system, compared to just 12 percent for online play.

Finally, Nielsen reported the average hours consumers spent using each system. The Xbox 360 topped the list with 4.9 hours of use per week, with the PS3 behind at 4.1 hours per week. The Wii was the least used of the bunch, averaging just 1.4 hours per week.
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Stupid title.
 
A

Ashes

Member
Are we back to negative ps3 headlines again? It really is 2006/2008 again... the wii comes off worse there surely... and astoundingly so...
I'm not sure the x360 comes out all that well there as well. Nor the ps3 to be honest.

edit: on second reflection I don't know what would be par..
 
P

Pooya

Member
Gamasutra

NPD KIDS survey

Among those children requesting gaming hardware, Nintendo's Wii and DS systems each represented 22 percent of all requests. The Xbox 360 represented 18 percent of requests and the PlayStation 3 accounted for 7 percent, with the remainder falling into a more generic "other" category.

Treyarch/Activision's Call of Duty: Black Ops and Bungie/Microsoft's Halo: Reach were the most popular individual items on children's wish lists, despite both games' M ratings from the ESRB.

The report cited Kinect as children's most-desired accessory, though accessories as a whole made up only 6 percent of gamers' requests.
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V

Vizion28

Banned
I'm not surprised to how well Kinect selling. I kind of predicted it. But I can see sales declining by a huge margin once the Wii is $150. The Kinect really doesn't seem worth the purchase to the "casual" gamers when the Wii is the same price as an accessory or the bundle being twice the price of Wii. And if a third party released a motion cam accessory for Wii (let's say Ubisoft for Just Dance 3), that can really hurt Kinect's appeal.
 
B

Boney

Banned
OldJadedGamer said:
Kids are stupid. They want the hardware that can't play the software they want.
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...?

Maybe the other consoles just have different software that appeal to different kids?
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Vizion28 said:
I'm not surprised to how well Kinect selling. I kind of predicted it. But I can see sales declining by a huge margin once the Wii is $150. The Kinect really doesn't seem worth the purchase to the "casual" gamers when the Wii is the same price as an accessory or the bundle being twice the price of Wii. And if a third party released a motion cam accessory for Wii (let's say Ubisoft for Just Dance 3), that can really hurt Kinect's appeal.
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Given the amount of R&D that went into Kinect, making a 3rd party solution that doesn't infringe on any of MS' patents doesn't really seem like it's be all that easy to do, especially not in a year (when Just Dance 3 will be out).
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
TheOddOne said:
Less than half of PS3 time spent gaming - Study

Stupid title.
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why? the title is accurate.

49% of PS3's are spent gaming, either online (19%) or offline (30%).

sounds about right to me, though I'm definitely speaking from only my own personal experiences. Sometimes going from 360 online gaming to PS3 online gaming is so jarring, it actually becomes less desirable for me. I think I've bought significantly less online games for my PS3 than I have for my 360.

dunno how to describe it other than that the 360 feels like a really fun social party and the PS3 feels less so.

idk.
 
A

Ashes

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
why? the title is accurate.

49% of PS3's are spent gaming, either online (19%) or offline (30%).

sounds about right to me, though I'm definitely speaking from only my own personal experiences. Sometimes going from 360 online gaming to PS3 online gaming is so jarring, it actually becomes less desirable for me. I think I've bought significantly less online games for my PS3 than I have for my 360.

dunno how to describe it other than that the 360 feels like a really fun social party and the PS3 feels less so.

idk.
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I don't think he was referring to the accuracy. Why choose ps3 over wii or 360? The ps3 seems stuck in the middle.
 
S

Sipowicz

Banned
Ashes1396 said:
I don't think he was referring to the accuracy. Why choose ps3 over wii or 360? The ps3 seems stuck in the middle.
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the ps3 is not stuck in the middle. the ps3 is dead last in his comparison

69%>62%>49%
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
OldJadedGamer said:
That is still the best ad campaign Sony ever had for the system... except for that stupid ass Spiderman font. Thank God they got rid of that. The problem with this ad is that there really wasn't any great games to show off at the time. They need to bring something cool like this back now that they have a decent price and a good library to show off.
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GT5P
R&C
Uncharted
Warhawk
Heavenly Sword

Replace Warhawk with KZ and Heavenly Sword with GOW, and how's that any different from what they have today?
 
O

OldJadedGamer

Banned
Zoe said:
GT5P
R&C
Uncharted
Warhawk
Heavenly Sword

Replace Warhawk with KZ and Heavenly Sword with GOW, and how's that any different from what they have today?
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So PS3 had the same games in 2007 as it does in 2010? Bold statement.
 
A

a Master Ninja

Member
White Wii Prices Dropping December 19th
fzU1J.jpg
56YaF.jpg

Best Buy will be reducing the price of the white bundles only starting December 19th and lasting at least through Christmas. This is not featured in their Sunday flyer.
 
A

Ashes

Member
Sipowicz said:
the ps3 is not stuck in the middle. the ps3 is dead last in his comparison

69%>62%>49%
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Not in terms of real time you are not.* Overall, I'd say their stuck in the middle.
*49% of 4.1 hours is around 2 hours which is more than the entire average use of the wii.
 
A

antonz

Member
a Master Ninja said:
White Wii Prices Dropping December 19th
fzU1J.jpg
56YaF.jpg

Best Buy will be reducing the price of the white bundles only starting December 19th and lasting at least through Christmas. This is not featured in their Sunday flyer.
Click to expand...

Nintendo is being pretty aggressive this year on the pricing front. Not letting Microsoft or Sony pull those deals without a response
 
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