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NPD Sales Results for May 2007

L

LCGeek

formerly sane
quetz67 said:
You did, no way of closing it again :p

I think 512MB are enough for a long time. In my strong belief good graphics are not made of just huge textures, but a good mixture of polygon detail, textures (that do fit in 512MB) and shaders and of course realistic lighting.

We will see lots of PC games that excel PS3/360 games in texture size and I know some believe thats the holy grail of graphics, but who needs textures that still look perfect in screenshots of 3000 pixel width? (see Crysis)

Yes I am a graphics whore but if a game is lame enough to let you care about that amount of detail, something is probably wrong.
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512MB hasn't been enough for pc games since about 2k3. Console gamers should be lucky epic goaded MS into adding that as both sony and ms intended originally to go with 256MB. The reason you need more memory is bigger worlds, better textures, better shaders, aa, and af. Not only that but it isn't 512MB devs have to play with both 360 and PS3 take up a certain level of memory with the os in the background so it's somewhere in the mid 400MB range. I'm more realistic about this subject ram drives up a console price like crazy we jumped way too early into the level of graphics we have because devs now have to fight between storage space of the dvd, fps, and fillrate requirements being eaten the most by the hd jump.

Lastly I love your posts it's uncanny to see how you will spin spin an issue in favor of these two consoles. Saying the absolute best graphics maybe too much but that gimped bottlenecked consoles are somehow right despite a variety of valid complaints being launched against them.
 
Q

quetz67

Banned
Hatorade said:
512MB hasn't been enough for pc games since about 2k3. Console gamers should be lucky epic goaded MS into adding that as both sony and ms intended originally to go with 256MB. The reason you need more memory is bigger worlds, better textures, better shaders, aa, and af. Not only that but it isn't 512MB devs have to play with both 360 and PS3 take up a certain level of memory with the os in the background so it's somewhere in the mid 400MB range. I'm more realistic about this subject ram drives up a console price like crazy we jumped way too early into the level of graphics we have because devs now have to fight between storage space of the dvd, fps, and fillrate requirements being eaten the most by the hd jump.
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It is not like under windows you have all the memory available, especially not under Vista. And only a few games will use latest tech as installed hardware base is not all high-end systems (old but true console vs. PC arguments)

Late in a console cycle PC games usually win technically thats why I abandonded most consoles pretty early.

Hatorade said:
Lastly I love your posts it's uncanny to see how you will spin spin an issue in favor of these two consoles. Saying the absolute best graphics maybe too much but that gimped bottlenecked consoles are somehow right despite a variety of valid complaints being launched against them.
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I kind of expected this. Still the PS3/360 look great and their possibilities arent used at all yet. Same goes for Wii, yes, but still it wont come close.
 
M

Masklinn

Accept one saviour, get the second free.
quetz67 said:
It is not like under windows you have all the memory available
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No you don't, and on the PS3 you don't have all the cores either as one of them is permanently locked for the OS, and one or two more can be taken from the app/game by the same OS.
quetz67 said:
Late in a console cycle PC games usually win technically thats why I abandonded most consoles pretty early.
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We're not late in the current console cycle and PC games already beat console games.
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
well honestly I dont think the 512 megs of ram in the next gen systems were quite enough to push what they want at the res they want in my opinion but thats a whole other can of worms I dont wanna open right now.
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Texture memory is a solveable problem so long as you can afford to spend resources on alternate data structures, and different approach to content creation tools. In other words, 512MB is plenty, utilization is just not there yet.

Current consoles have the processing power to approach this problem, but changes in art creation-pipeline are going to take time - and it remain to be seen if people are willing to invest into going down that path. Visual fidelity still takes second fiddle to meeting production deadlines.
 
B

Branduil

Member
Fafalada said:
Texture memory is a solveable problem so long as you can afford to spend resources on alternate data structures, and different approach to content creation tools. In other words, 512MB is plenty, utilization is just not there yet.

Current consoles have the processing power to approach this problem, but changes in art creation-pipeline are going to take time - and it remain to be seen if people are willing to invest into going down that path. Visual fidelity still takes second fiddle to meeting production deadlines.
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Can you explain what that means in layman's terms?
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
quetz67 said:
It is not like under windows you have all the memory available, especially not under Vista. And only a few games will use latest tech as installed hardware base is not all high-end systems (old but true console vs. PC arguments)

Late in a console cycle PC games usually win technically thats why I abandonded most consoles pretty early.


I kind of expected this. Still the PS3/360 look great and their possibilities arent used at all yet. Same goes for Wii, yes, but still it wont come close.
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XP 2k and 98 all which are more used have different memory requirements, usage , and performance at the very least with 2k and XP I can kill a ton of processes and service, just create a gaming profile and you will always have good cpu and mem usage from your games. BTW the argument about lastest tech compared to hardware base applies for consoles. Xbox was the big bad boy on the console block but it was PS2 that got pushed the most. The whole notion that pcs catch up to consoles is actually backwards and has been since the the first 3d systems. People need to realize a pc is built to run what you have available not the future and usually good spec machines will run whatever is out there on a level console don't because of devs and time issues.

All three consoles have the chance to to constantly keep impressing me with what they do in their limits. Any way I slice I see PS3 doing the most of the 3 consoles, despite rsx abilitie simply because of how cell can change rendering and because it has BR it's going to have the best looking titles. 360 seems to be disappointing me more as time goes on originally I loved the 1st gen efforts but 2nd gen efforts are really making me question how much this system can do. UT3 will not be at 60fps and one can easily assume the texturing won't be as great as what pc version is pulling. I saw the writing on the wall with 360 when comparing pc titles performance say cod2, oblivion, prey, quake 4 on lesser spec systems you can argue optimization but considering the pc like nature of the system it doesn't fly. On the subject of graphics I use way different standards than most. Console titles I automatically focus on basic things like iq cliarty, fps, and animation since it's rare to see a devs push the other areas from an average point of view.
 
Q

quetz67

Banned
Masklinn said:
No you don't, and on the PS3 you don't have all the cores either as one of them is permanently locked for the OS, and one or two more can be taken from the app/game by the same OS.
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But they already make great looking games scratching only the surface

Masklinn said:
We're not late in the current console cycle and PC games already beat console games.
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I dont think so, I havent seen a game that beats Motorstorm (even if Dirt is cleaner I dont think it beats it). And then there is always the question beating it on what hardware? Oblivion with qarl 3 beats PS3 or 360 Oblivions easily, no question, thats why I play it on PC with my 640MB graphics card.

But I have nothing that compares to RR7 or VF5 on my PC or any FPS lately I liked as much as Resistance and many future games simply wont be on PC (a reason I chose PS3 over 360 is that many of the 360 console exclusives like Bioshock, Alan Wake, Mass Effect etc. i can get on PC)
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
quetz67 said:
But they already make great looking games scratching only the surface


I dont think so, I havent seen a game that beats Motorstorm (even if Dirt is cleaner I dont think it beats it). And then there is always the question beating it on what hardware? Oblivion with qarl 3 beats PS3 or 360 Oblivions easily, no question, thats why I play it on PC with my 640MB graphics card.

But I have nothing that compares to RR7 or VF5 on my PC or any FPS lately I liked as much as Resistance and many future games simply wont be on PC (a reason I chose PS3 over 360 is that many of the 360 console exclusives like Bioshock, Alan Wake, Mass Effect etc. i can get on PC)
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I have to ask isn't that a bit unfair to pcs racing and fighters are no where near the same in terms of dev competence compared to consoles. Even then I'll take TM at 1680x1050 with 2x aa/af at 80fps+ over RR7. Motorstorm, Burnout, and GT easily are above what the pc is every going to produce then again at this point I hate being forced to choose between good graphics usually at 30fps and good gameplay, modability, and better wheel support. As a gamer this gen is a let down because of how few titles have it all when it comes to production values.
 
Q

quetz67

Banned
Hatorade said:
XP 2k and 98 ... stuff ... point of view.
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not contradicting you...I personally go PC/PS3/Wii to get the best of all worlds.

Others will choose differently, all I say is many hardcore gamers an/or graphics whores wont go Wii only.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
quetz67 said:
not contradicting you...I personally go PC/PS3/Wii to get the best of all worlds.

Others will choose differently, all I say is many hardcore gamers an/or graphics whores wont go Wii only.
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Definetly no and we are aiming for the same set of platforms to enjoy this generation just different genres. I'm a pc and arcade type due to the fact online and competitive is way better consoles are like icing on the cake to me or a break from multiplayer gaming in the few instances I get bored with it. Being one console only has mystified me outside of those who don't have financials which is very rare.
 
Q

quetz67

Banned
Hatorade said:
I have to ask isn't that a bit unfair to pcs racing and fighters are no where near the same in terms of dev competence compared to consoles. Even then I'll take TM at 1680x1050 with 2x aa/af at 80fps+ over RR7. Motorstorm, Burnout, and GT easily are above what the pc is every going to produce then again at this point I hate being forced to choose between good graphics usually at 30fps and good gameplay, modability, and better wheel support. As a gamer this gen is a let down because of how few titles have it all when it comes to production values.
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In the case of PS3 that is because everything available (besides ports) is rather rushed. Real next gen titles with high production values take their time (2 or more years).

This is a big problem for the 2 next gen consoles and and issue the Wii kind off sailed around.

I can see many dev teams only delivering one big title every gen (with probably some addons on the same engine) from now on but I think they will deliver.
 
S

Starchasing

Member
quetz67 said:
I say is many hardcore gamers an/or graphics whores wont go Wii only.
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Graphics whore tend to stick with PC , in 2 or 3 years PS3 will be so outdated compared to PCS. Havent you seen Crysis?

Hardcore gamers have a lot to choose when buying a Wii this year.... Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, SSBM ... VC is also hardcore gamers heaven. Who do you think is buying those Turbografx-16 shmup
 
Q

quetz67

Banned
Starchasing said:
Graphics whore tend to stick with PC , in 2 or 3 years PS3 will be so outdated compared to PCS. Havent you seen Crysis?

Hardcore gamers have a lot to choose when buying a Wii this year.... Zelda, Mario, Metroid Prime, SSBM ... VC is also hardcore gamers heaven. Who do you think is buying those Turbografx-16 shmup
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I have seen Crysis (which isnt even out) and besides the insane textures I would say it can be done on consoles. I believe the power of 360/PS3 is pretty much underestimated.

Dont know who buys old Turbografx games, I rather play them on my PSP as the small screen make them look quite good, but thats personal preferences again.

Metroid Prime for graphics whores remains to be seen, many already found it unappealing last gen for lack of bumpmapping (not me beware). But I think not having Retro using 360/PS3 level power for the next Metrod Prime is the worst thing of all, seeing such talent being 'wasted' on the same game again (though I was hyped like hell for MP2 it never came close to MP1 and I dont know if MP3 breathes new life into the series just with new controls - though I hope for it to use Wii to the fullest, just havent seen any proof for that)
 
J

jarrod

Banned
Fafalada said:
Yea, that's about what I expect too.
Actually it's interesting that the trend seems to be that each generation attach rate grows(NDS will likely kick that curve upward more) - I wonder if this is the case with consoles too? I know it happened with PS1->PS2 gen, but what about prior to that? Although granted, at the rate PS2 is going, it may end up ~14:1 or higher, which will be a tall order to beat.
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Actually, it dropped some for Nintendo for awhile...

NES 8.10
SNES 7.72
N64 6.83
GC 9.54
Wii 4.94

PS 9.38
PS2 10.49
PS3 2.4

...FC/SFC both had really, really high JP attach rates btw (11+).
 
P

pswii60

Member
Roders5 said:
Holy shit someone has too much time.
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And I don't. What a waste of my life that was, I was waiting for the joke, the punchline, but it was just an OTT Nfan masturbation session.
 
S

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
sp0rsk said:
I'm calm.
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commandowrong.gif
 
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