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[mugurumakensei]

To make that a fair comparison, wouldn't you have to remove the largest 3rd party games from the Wii list as well?

Bye bye Guitar Hero 3 and Mario & Sonic.

Thing is, looking at december numbers based on what sold > 100k on each platform, third parties would still sell better on average on the Wii compared to what would be a substantial drop for the 360/PS3 if they lose their biggest 3rd party titles. Only Mario and Sonic has sold near any of the aforementioned PS3/360 titles.

 

[yoopoo]

Rouge Warrior numbers please.

 

[poppabk]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some Madworlds and HOTD:Overkills that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

 

[Nirolak]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some Madworlds and HOTD:Overkills that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

I imagine it's titles released in 2008 and the first half of 2009 that are now selling 5000-20,000 copies during the holiday season.

Plus there is still a fair share of shovelware as well. It's just not noticed in the same volume.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Yes.
MGS4 is over 1.3m, KZ2 is over 800k.

Interesting numbers.

Sorry for asking this (since it's probably been answered a couple of million times) - does NPD count bundles (like, a console + game)?

 

[mugurumakensei]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some Madworlds and HOTD:Overkills that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

For safety precautions, everything from 200k down has been rounded to the nearest 5.

For December:
> 100k:
Wii - 40+
DS - 40+
360 - 15+
PS3 - 10+
PS2 - 0+
PSP - 0+

> 50k:

Wii - 90+
DS - 90+
360 - 30+
PS3 - 30+
PS2 - 5+
PSP - 5+

> 20k:

Wii - 200+
DS - 190+
360 - 70+
PS3 - 60+
PS2 - 25+
PSP - 35+

That's the reason why... You can see quite a bit of difference between the 360/PS3 and wii. 360/PS3 has a few very big sellers and very few moderate sellers while Wii has a moderate to small amount of big hits for Third parties and a lot of moderate sellers for third parties.

 

[botticus]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some Madworlds and HOTD:Overkills that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

Consider that the graphs are averaged over 400-700 titles per system.

And if we look at this:

> 20k:

Wii - 200+ (175+)
DS - 190+
360 - 70+
PS3 - 60+
PS2 - 25+
PSP - 35+

We would see that in December:

3rd Party Games selling < 20k: (assuming a negligible number of 1st party 360 and PS3 games in the list above)

Wii - ~600
360 - ~500
PS3 - ~300

 

[speculawyer]

Third party LTD sales in the US:

I'd like to see that graph where they divide the total number of sales per the installed base. That would move the PS3 up and the Wii down.

But the above graph presented is the more relevant figure . . . as a 3rd party, you want to know your total sales potential regardless of installed base.

But then again, they should have a PS3+xbox 360 line since games are generally released in pairs on the HD twins.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some Madworlds and HOTD:Overkills that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

There's tons of shovelware for the PS3/360 as well, just no one makes a big deal out of it.

Cabela's big game hunter still releases on both platforms, there are the CSI and Lost and assorted gameshow games, tons of movie licensed drivel, the Dynasty Warriors games, etc.

Looking at the upcoming list at Gamestop, there's these titles most have probably never heard of or would never buy:

World of Outlaws: Sprint Cars (THQ)
Deadly Premonition (Ignition)
LIPS party classics (MS)
Metro 2033 (THQ)
How to Train Your Dragon (Activision)
Clash of the Titans (Namco/Bandai)
Prison Break (South Peak)

just through the end of March.

 

[iamaustrian]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some Madworlds and HOTD:Overkills that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

that's the problem. the wii gets shit all the time for poor 3rd party games sales while the situation on the HD consoles is similar.
just because AC2 and MW2 sell huge amounts doesn't automaticaly mean that everything epic and HD sells great. in fact there are tons of ps3/xbox360 3rd party games which sold/sell like crap but you hardly find that in the media.


edit: sort of beaten by the guy above this post

 

[Nirolak]

I'd like to see that graph where they divide the total number of sales per the installed base. That would move the PS3 up and the Wii down.

But the above graph presented is the more relevant figure . . . as a 3rd party, you want to know your total sales potential regardless of installed base.

But then again, they should have a PS3+xbox 360 line since games are generally released in pairs on the HD twins.

Well, you have to remember that this is Nintendo's chart. They're trying to highlight things that are very positive about their sales, as the chart is meant to get people to invest in Nintendo.

 

[JJConrad]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some good that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

Pretty much it all comes down to legs.

I find it interesting that the PS3 and 360 graphs look identical when MW2 is subtracted. And it's somewhat scary to think how much that one game made up so much of those system's sales.

 

[Rolf NB]

I'd like to see that graph where they divide the total number of sales per the installed base. That would move the PS3 up and the Wii down.

It would be three horizontal lines bunched together at 0.091, give or take 0.001.

Super-true edit: or actually at 10.9, because you asked for the inverse.

Ultimate edit: scratch that, inverse shminverse. It'd be at 0.364. The constant J is formulated per week, and you're probably looking for a monthly metric.

 

[Indyana]

And... Average sales per title (3rd party, excluding MW2):

So, excluding MW2, PS3 and 360 have sold almost the same amount on average per game.

Edit: beaten! Again...

 

[donny2112]

I'd like to see that graph where they divide the total number of sales per the installed base. That would move the PS3 up and the Wii down.

But the above graph presented is the more relevant figure . . . as a 3rd party, you want to know your total sales potential regardless of installed base.

But then again, they should have a PS3+xbox 360 line since games are generally released in pairs on the HD twins.

I'm dizzy! So dizzy! Ahhhhh!

 

[Road]

The question is what is dragging those averages down for 360/PS3? We know on the Wii there is a ton of shovelware that sells bad and some Madworlds and HOTD:Overkills that sell poorly, but what titles in significant numbers are selling like crap on 360/PS3? Is this a 'legs' thing or something else.

Games released for the 360/PS3 in 2006 that sold 1 copy in December? There goes your average. Those aren't games released only in Oct-Dec (as the number of titles in the bottom of the graphs would indicate).

Btw, for those that don't recognize, these charts are from Nintendo (they aren't mine). They haven't put the English translation of the Q&A up yet.

 

[ksamedi]

Seems the Wii is in shortage again. Mario really had a big effect on Wii sales.

 

[JJConrad]

But then again, they should have a PS3+xbox 360 line since games are generally released in pairs on the HD twins.

Why? The vast majority of games are fully multiply-platform (Wii, PS3, 360)... Including strong sellers like ____ Hero, Rock Band, Tiger Woods, Tony Hawk, and Madden. The games GAF bickers about are not. Adding just PS3 and 360 is a fanboy trapping that shouldn't be given the attention it is.

 

[poppabk]

So, excluding MW2, PS3 and 360 have sold almost the same amount on average per game.

I don't think that is the statistic.
It is
(number of games sold in 3 months or 1 month)/(total number of games available for the system).

That is why crappy legs could account for the low averages for 360/PS3 - Assassins Creed 1 which sold millions may have sold 1k during Oct-Dec whereas maybe RE4:Wii pulled in another 50 or 60k during the same period. Assassins Creed would pull down the average for 360/PS3 because it is no longer selling whereas the less successful overall RE4:Wii would pull the average up because of its legs.

 

[Deku]

Now Nintendo's playing the "exclusion" game. :lol

So, outside of MW2, third-party games did better on Wii, on average, than PS3 or 360 third-party games did. Of course, the individual games aren't comparable in the slightest (Assassin's Creed II vs. Just Dance; Fight!), but that's still interesting.

Thanks, Road!

Publishers behave like lottery hopefuls. Most of them will not have a major hit like MW2, but they all quote, dream and process their day based on the assumption that they will hit it big, which for all intents and purposes behaves much like a Nintendo 1st party title.

For the vast majority of them, their actual sales potential is the chart with MW2 excluded as not everyone is activison this gen.

This is perhaps what separates the 'Nintendo' 3rd party situation with the rest, at least on a psychological level.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm dizzy! So dizzy! Ahhhhh!

I don't feel that speculawyer mentioning that third parties tend to release games on both platforms and thus would combine the third party sales numbers is ridiculous spin.

The attach rate comment is a bit spinworthy though as obviously if you're not selling many consoles your attach rate skyrockets.

 

[poppabk]

Games released for the 360/PS3 in 2006 that sold 1 copy in December? There goes your average. Those aren't games released only in Oct-Dec (as the number of titles in the bottom of the graphs would indicate).

Btw, for those that don't recognize, these charts are from Nintendo (they aren't mine). They haven't put the English translation of the Q&A up yet.

That is what I was asking. Is this the different natures of the Wii and 360/PS3 purchasing habits - ie legs vs front-loaded - showing up inn? Obviously we can only guess at the reason, but I am interested in people's interpretations.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Interesting numbers.

Sorry for asking this (since it's probably been answered a couple of million times) - does NPD count bundles (like, a console + game)?

Of course not. They don't count bundles cause it's impossible to tell who would have bought the system regardless of the game. Think about it, if you counted bundled games then Kung Fu Panda would be nearing 3 million right now.

Bundled games only artificially bloat sales numbers and I'm glad the NPD keep them out.

 

[Dalthien]

I don't feel that speculawyer mentioning that third parties tend to release games on both platforms and thus would combine the third party sales numbers is ridiculous spin.

Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous spin. As JJConrad already mentioned, the vast majority (and I mean VAST majority) of 3rd-party stuff is released across all systems. The number of titles that only get 360+PS3 and no Wii version is a small subset of the entire landscape. Trying to somehow project industry-wide numbers onto such a small subset of games is ridiculous.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Of course not. They don't count bundles cause it's impossible to tell who would have bought the system regardless of the game. Think about it, if you counted bundled games then Kung Fu Panda would be nearing 3 million right now.

Bundled games only artificially bloat sales numbers and I'm glad the NPD keep them out.

I was pretty positive they don't count them, just needed to check.

Thanks.

 

[Atreides]

That is what I was asking. Is this the different natures of the Wii and 360/PS3 purchasing habits - ie legs vs front-loaded - showing up inn? Obviously we can only guess at the reason, but I am interested in people's interpretations.

I don't think that the difference in legs should matter. Of course, a game with short legs will drag down the average after it no longer sells a lot. But the same kind of game will increase the average when it's launched. One thing compensates for the other.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Of course not. They don't count bundles cause it's impossible to tell who would have bought the system regardless of the game. Think about it, if you counted bundled games then Kung Fu Panda would be nearing 3 million right now.

Bundled games only artificially bloat sales numbers and I'm glad the NPD keep them out.

... insert weak argument about not all bundles being created equal.... modern warfare 2 blah blah metal gear solid 4 blah blah.... Doesn't change that they don't count them.

 

[donny2112]

I don't feel that speculawyer mentioning that third parties tend to release games on both platforms and thus would combine the third party sales numbers is ridiculous spin.

1) JJConrad's post.
2) My first post after Road posted the charts (i.e. a lot of the bigger games released only on PS360 are simply not comparable to those released only on Wii, e.g. Assassin's Creed II vs. Just Dance).

What you want is a graph that could've been done last generation where an individual multi-platform title (across all three platforms) could've looked at PS2 totals vs. Xbox+GCN totals. This generation, companies released a lot of their "biggest" games only on the Xbox+GCN, so that comparison can't be done, for the most part, and definitely not by combining total third-party software for PS3+360 vs. Wii.

The U.S. Wii third-party total sales number is almost an aberration for this generation. "Look how much third-party software is sold when third-parties typically don't even release their most heavily pushed games on the system!"

 

[Nirolak]

Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous spin. As JJConrad already mentioned, the vast majority (and I mean VAST majority) of 3rd-party stuff is released across all systems. The number of titles that only get 360+PS3 and no Wii version is a small subset of the entire landscape. Trying to somehow project industry-wide numbers onto such a small subset of games is ridiculous.

Uh...

Nintendo DS
100 All-Time Favorites
ANNO 1701: Dawn of Discovery
Academy of Champions
Arthur and the Revenge of Maltazard
Arthur and the Two Worlds War
Asphalt: Urban GT
Asphalt: Urban GT 2
Assassin's Creed II: Discovery
Assassin's Creed: Altair's Chronicles
Avatar: The Game
Battle of Giants: Dinosaurs
Battle of Giants: Dragons
Battle of Giants: Mutant Insects
Battles of Prince of Persia
Best Friends Tonight
Bomberman
Brain Challenge
Broken Sword: Shadow of the Templars -- The Director's Cut
Brothers in Arms DS
C.O.P.: The Recruit
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: Dark Motives
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: Deadly Intent -- Hidden Cases
Catz
Cesar Millan's The Dog Whisperer
Chessmaster: The Art of Learning
Classic Word Games
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs
Dawn of Discovery
Dogz
Eden
Ener-G: Dance Squad
Ener-G: Gym Rockets
Ener-G: Horse Riders
Fairyland Melody Magic
Family Feud: 2010 Edition
Fashion Studio: Paris Collection
Gourmet Chef: Cook Your Way to Fame
Grey's Anatomy: The Video Game
Hamsterz Life
Happy Cooking
Hell's Kitchen
Heroes
Horsez
Imagine Teacher: Class Trip
Imagine: Animal Doctor
Imagine: Artist
Imagine: Baby Club
Imagine: Babysitters
Imagine: Babyz
Imagine: Babyz Fashion
Imagine: Ballet Star
Imagine: Boutique Owner
Imagine: Cheerleader
Imagine: Cheerleader
Imagine: Detective
Imagine: Family Doctor
Imagine: Fashion Designer
Imagine: Fashion Designer / Ener-G: Dance Squad Pack
Imagine: Fashion Designer New York
Imagine: Fashion Designer World Tour
Imagine: Figure Skater
Imagine: Ice Champions
Imagine: Interior Designer
Imagine: Makeup Artist
Imagine: Master Chef
Imagine: Modern Dancer
Imagine: Movie Star
Imagine: Music Fest
Imagine: Party Planner
Imagine: Pet Vet
Imagine: Reporter
Imagine: Rock Star
Imagine: Salon Stylist
Imagine: Soccer Captain
Imagine: Sweet 16
Imagine: Teacher
Imagine: Wedding Designer
Imagine: Zookeeper
Jake Power: Fireman
Jake Power: Handyman
Jake Power: Policeman
Jake Power: Soccer Club
Jam Sessions
Jam Sessions 2
JoJo's Fashion Show
Lost Magic
Lunar: Dragon Song
Martin Mystery: Monster Invasion
Miami Nights: Singles in the City
Midnight Play Pack
Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes
Mind Quiz: Your Brain Coach
Movie Games
My Chinese Coach
My English Coach: Para Hispanoparlantes
My Fashion Studio
My French Coach
My Fun Facts Coach
My Healthy Cooking Coach
My Japanese Coach
My SAT Coach with The Princeton Review
My Secret World by Imagine
My Spanish Coach
My Stop Smoking Coach with Allen Carr
My Weight Loss Coach
My Word Coach
Open Season
Pawly Pets: My Vet Practice
Pet Adoption Center
Peter Jackson's King Kong
Petz Adoption Center
Petz Dogz 2 / Petz Horsez 2 -- 2 Games, One Low Price
Petz Fashion: Dogz & Catz
Petz Rescue: Endangered Paradise
Petz Rescue: Ocean Patrol
Petz Rescue: Wildlife Vet
Petz Vet
Petz: Bunnyz
Petz: Catz 2
Petz: Catz Clan
Petz: Dogz 2
Petz: Dogz Fashion
Petz: Dogz Pack
Petz: Dogz Talent Show
Petz: Dolphinz Encounter
Petz: Hamsterz 2
Petz: Hamsterz Superstarz
Petz: Horseshoe Ranch
Petz: Horsez 2
Petz: Monkeyz House
Petz: Nursery
Petz: Pony Beauty Pageant
Petz: Wild Animals -- Dolphinz
Petz: Wild Animals -- Tigerz
Pippa Funnell 2: Farm Adventures
Press Your Luck: 2010 Edition
Prince of Persia: The Fallen King
Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
Puppy Palace
Quick Yoga Training
Rabbids Go Home
Rayman (DSi)
Rayman DS
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Rayman Raving Rabbids TV Party
Real Soccer 2008
Shaun White Snowboarding
Spelling Spree!
Sprung
Star Wars Compilation
Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
Star Wars: Lethal Alliance
Stratego: Next Edition
Style Lab: Jewelry Design
Style Lab: Makeover
Surf's Up
TMNT
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Arcade Attack
The Adventures of TinTin
The Price Is Right (2008)
The Price is Right: 2010 Edition
The Price is Right: 2010 Edition / Rayman Raving Rabbids -- 2 Games, One Low Price
The Settlers
Tom Clancy's EndWar
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction
Totally Spies! 3: Secret Agents
Totally Spies! 4: Around the World
Where's Waldo? The Fantastic Journey
Wordfish

Xbox 360
America's Army: True Soldiers
Armored Core for Answer
Arthur and the Two Worlds War
Assassin's Creed
Assassin's Creed II
Avatar: The Game
Beowulf: The Game
Beyond Good & Evil 2
Blazing Angels 2: Secret Missions of WWII
Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: 3 Dimensions of Murder
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: Deadly Intent
CSI: Crime Scene Investigation: Hard Evidence
Call of Juarez
Call of Juarez: Bound in Blood
CellFactor: Psychokinetic Wars
Chessmaster Live
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic Elements
Eden
Enchanted Arms
Far Cry 2
Far Cry 3
Far Cry Instincts Predator
Heroes
Heroes Over Europe
I Am Alive
Import Tuner Challenge
Killing Day
Lost: Via Domus
Naruto: Rise of a Ninja
Naruto: The Broken Bond
Open Season
Over G Fighters
Panzer General: Allied Assault
Peter Jackson's King Kong
Prince of Persia
Prince of Persia Classic
Prince of Persia: Epilogue
Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
R.U.S.E.
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Scott Pilgrim
Shaun White Snowboarding
Surf's Up
TMNT
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: The Classic Arcade Game
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Turtles in Time Re-Shelled
The Adventures of TinTin
Tom Clancy's EndWar
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2
Tom Clancy's HAWX
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas 2
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Chaos Theory
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Double Agent
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction
Vijay Singh Golf
War World
WarTech: Senko no Ronde
Wheelman
World in Conflict: Soviet Assault

This doesn't strike me as the vast majority being multiplatform. We could argue if Ubisoft is representative of the industry though if you like.

1) JJConrad's post.
2) My first post after Road posted the charts (i.e. a lot of the bigger games released only on PS360 are simply not comparable to those released only on Wii, e.g. Assassin's Creed II vs. Just Dance).

What you want is a graph that could've been done last generation where an individual multi-platform title (across all three platforms) could've looked at PS2 totals vs. Xbox+GCN totals. This generation, companies released a lot of their "biggest" games only on the Xbox+GCN, so that comparison can't be done, for the most part, and definitely not by combining total third-party software for PS3+360 vs. Wii.

The U.S. Wii third-party total sales number is almost an aberration for this generation. "Look how much third-party software is sold when third-parties typically don't even release their most heavily pushed games on the system!"

Sorry, I didn't mean for any game at all. Obviously there's a huge demographic factor to what platform they choose to put their games on, as the list above reflects. I agree that actually the Wii tends to get more titles than the PS3/360 despite a lower total third party sales even.

 

[JJConrad]

That is what I was asking. Is this the different natures of the Wii and 360/PS3 purchasing habits - ie legs vs front-loaded - showing up inn? Obviously we can only guess at the reason, but I am interested in people's interpretations.

The obvious answer would be the Wii's vastly larger, broader, and rapidly growing userbase.

This stat Nintendo is using here is actually very fair. Yes, there are probably a lot of old games dragging down the PS3 and 360 average, but the same is true for the Wii. Nintendo is counting 202 extra games on the Wii over 360... That a whole lot more extra baggage than what the other systems are carrying.

 

[botticus]

This doesn't strike me as the vast majority being multiplatform. We could argue if Ubisoft is representative of the industry though if you like.

I don't think "all systems" was including the DS in this context.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

... insert weak argument about not all bundles being created equal.... modern warfare 2 blah blah metal gear solid 4 blah blah.... Doesn't change that they don't count them.

Well, those bundles offered something more. The MW2 one came with the limited edition custom paint job, the game, a downloaded coupon for COD1, and a 250gig harddrive for $100 more. That added value.

The MGS4 bundle was the very last system Sony ever made that had BC with the PS2, was the very first PS3 system to ever ship with a rumble controller, had double the HDD space, and included a free game for $100 more. Even if you HATED Metal Gear with a passion you would have been a fool at the time to not pick up the bundled unit wanting the game or not.

So I think that the limited edition bundles should count like the silver Gun Metal MGS4 machine and the MW2 limited edition machine but any other regular system that just so happens to have the game thrown in should not be counted.

In the end, it's better just to leave all of them out since as stated earlier there is no way in hell to tell if someone is buying the system for that game.

 

[Yoshi]

Does anyone know and is so nice to share a rough LTD for Yoshis Island DS? If this isn't possible: Should it be considered a success?

 

[Nirolak]

I don't think "all systems" was including the DS in this context.

If we took out Ubisoft's Wii list though, it mirrors the DS list much more than the 360/PS3 list though.

The all platforms thing seems to have faded this generation due to the diverging demographics. We seem to get games that show up on DS/Wii and 360/PS3/PC in terms of multiplatform, with only licensed games, sports games, and music games tending to transcend all of them anymore.

When we get the motion controllers we may shift back to everything being on every platform as stuff like Game Party come to 360 and PS3 and assembly line developers like Phoenix Games making for those platforms as well, but currently this doesn't seem to be the full reality.

 

[boiled goose]

Think about what would happen if you took out the original modern warfare and GTA IV. It would certainly paint a different picture of the third party situation than what publishers are saying.:lol

Wow.

What a freaking enlightening graph.

Third parties cant compete with Nintendo huh?

Third parties cant compete with MW2!
Keep in mind this is not total sales though, it is december sales per title. So like some ppl have said legs account a bit for the statistic. still surprising though since so much crap gets released on wii.

Shows how easily things can be spun in either direction.

 

[Dalthien]

This doesn't strike me as the vast majority being multiplatform. We could argue if Ubisoft is representative of the industry though if you like.

I'm talking about stuff that ends up on at least 2 of the three platforms. How much stuff has been released that was 360+PS3 only, versus stuff that was released across all 3 platforms? The difference is night and day. It's not even close. All the Lego stuff, Cabela's, annual sports stuff, music games, movie-licenses, etc. It dwarfs the number of high-profile shooters, rpgs, etc, that only get a PS3+360 release. The point still stands, the number of PS3+360 only games is a very small subset of the 3rd-party output.

Somehow trying to manipulate the industry-wide 3rd-party totals to somehow correlate those totals to the very small subset of 360+PS3 games? I'm sorry, but that is pure spin.

And that's not even getting into donny's point about different budgets, different brands, different marketing, etc. that further skews the whole discussion.

 

[Kunan]

Those charts, even with the MW2 distortion, paint a massively different picture than what people believe to be true.

that's the problem. the wii gets shit all the time for poor 3rd party games sales while the situation on the HD consoles is similar.
just because AC2 and MW2 sell huge amounts doesn't automaticaly mean that everything epic and HD sells great. in fact there are tons of ps3/xbox360 3rd party games which sold/sell like crap but you hardly find that in the media.

Just like Nintendo dominates their own platform, a select few publishers dominate the other platforms. People keep acting like putting games on PS3/360 means instant sales, but any small developer will tell you that its a pool just as full of great whites (Every presentation they make at university reinforces this).

 

[robjoh]

Those charts, even with the MW2 distortion, paint a massively different picture than what people believe to be true.


Just like Nintendo dominates their own platform, a select few publishers dominate the other platforms. People keep acting like putting games on PS3/360 means instant sales, but any small developer will tell you that its a pool just as full of great whites (Every presentation they make at university reinforces this).

So what the charts indicates are that as a small developer you have lost even before you decided which plattform you wanted to be on.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Wow.

What a freaking enlightening graph.

Third parties cant compete with Nintendo huh?

Third parties cant compete with MW2!
Keep in mind this is not total sales though, it is december sales per title. So like some ppl have said legs account a bit for the statistic. still surprising though since so much crap gets released on wii.

Shows how easily things can be spun in either direction.

Yea... looking at the graph it is just for december for one bar and october-december for the other.... Either way, it definitely paints a different picture than what all these fleeing third party publishers are painting. It amounts to whining that their D-tier titles aren't selling the same amount in their first month as their A-titles do on the 360/PS3. Those low-tier titles do however get sales throughout their lifetime rather than just getting a few small sales one month and then dropping off the face of the planet.

So what the charts indicates are that as a small developer you have lost even before you decided which plattform you wanted to be on.

Hmm.. no... You only lose if you were expecting your game to be as big as a Nintendo title or a blockbuster huge 3rd party title. However, if you budget your title and make it fun, you can do quite decently with 100-200k sales despite what some may say.

 

[Taurus]

*shit*

Oh my fucking god what a list! I think I'm gonna puke...

 

[Eteric Rice]

Oh my fucking god what a list! I think I'm gonna puke...

It makes you wish that Nintendo would bring back their limit of 6 games a year. Third parties (Ubisoft especially) have gone full retard on the DS and Wii.

 

[poppabk]

I don't think that the difference in legs should matter. Of course, a game with short legs will drag down the average after it no longer sells a lot. But the same kind of game will increase the average when it's launched. One thing compensates for the other.

After several years on the market the number of games that are no longer selling at all will be pretty big. However to drag down just the 5.83 million that MW:2 sold on 360 to an average of 38k or so would need 152 titles selling nothing at all.
NB I see that the total number of games includes special editions by the looks of the total number of games with and without MW:2

 

[Indyana]

I don't think that is the statistic.
It is
(number of games sold in 3 months or 1 month)/(total number of games available for the system).

That is why crappy legs could account for the low averages for 360/PS3 - Assassins Creed 1 which sold millions may have sold 1k during Oct-Dec whereas maybe RE4:Wii pulled in another 50 or 60k during the same period. Assassins Creed would pull down the average for 360/PS3 because it is no longer selling whereas the less successful overall RE4:Wii would pull the average up because of its legs.

I think you are almost right.

Looking at Nintendo's earnings report, there were 764 Wii titles until December'09. And the number below the Wii colum at the second graph (First + Third) is 790. The difference can be in the numbers of SKUs. This matches with the 3 games that dissapeared by excluding MW2 from PS360 sales.

 

[nincompoop]

Does anyone know and is so nice to share a rough LTD for Yoshis Island DS? If this isn't possible: Should it be considered a success?

It sold 2.91 million worldwide through March 2008. Don't know about NPD numbers specifically but between April 2007 and March 2008 it sold ~1.04m, with ~480k sold in Japan and ~550k outside of Japan. Source

 

[JJConrad]

Total December third party sales:(w/o MW2)
Wii = 14.3 million
360 = 9.4 million (7.2 million)
PS3 = 6.3 million (4.8 million)

I'm not a professional pixel counter, so these are these are units I used... Wii - 19k; PS3&360 - 17k (13k).

 

[Cipherr]

And... Average sales per title (3rd party, excluding MW2):

Holy freaking s***

 

[donny2112]

Obviously there's a huge demographic factor to what platform they choose to put their games on, as the list above reflects.

The all platforms thing seems to have faded this generation due to the diverging demographics.

Just to beat a dead horse, that difference exists now because third-parties believed that difference to exist from launch, which wasn't the case.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It makes you wish that Nintendo would bring back their limit of 6 games a year. Third parties (Ubisoft especially) have gone full retard on the DS and Wii.

But publishers got around that restriction by opening smaller publishing houses. Remember that Konami owned Ultra Games.

 

[Nirolak]

I'm talking about stuff that ends up on at least 2 of the three platforms. How much stuff has been released that was 360+PS3 only, versus stuff that was released across all 3 platforms? The difference is night and day. It's not even close. All the Lego stuff, Cabela's, annual sports stuff, music games, movie-licenses, etc. It dwarfs the number of high-profile shooters, rpgs, etc, that only get a PS3+360 release. The point still stands, the number of PS3+360 only games is a very small subset of the 3rd-party output.

Somehow trying to manipulate the industry-wide 3rd-party totals to somehow correlate those totals to the very small subset of 360+PS3 games? I'm sorry, but that is pure spin.

And that's not even getting into donny's point about different budgets, different brands, different marketing, etc. that further skews the whole discussion.

Wait, first you're stating that the number of games that are 360/PS3 that aren't also for the Wii is a very small subset, but then you go on to mention that 360/PS3 and Wii games have very different brands and marketing.

This seems to mean that there are a lot of Wii exclusive games that aren't on 360/PS3 and that the games on 360/PS3 that aren't on the Wii are a very sizable part of the unit sales and marketing on the 360/PS3, even if there is a very, very small number of these titles being released.

I'll rescind my point and agree that using the third party sales added together doesn't mean much, as it seems that the demographics seem to be vastly driving this instead.

Unfortunately I have to head out for an hour and a half so I have to apologize for any delay in responding if someone wanted to mention something.

Just to beat a dead horse, that difference exists now because third-parties believed that difference to exist from launch, which wasn't the case.

True, the self fulfilling prophecy was very self fulfilling. :lol

 

[Eteric Rice]

But publishers got around that restriction by opening smaller publishing houses. Remember that Konami owned Ultra Games.

Well, they'd have to put clauses in there to stop shit like that.

One of the Wii's biggest issues is that it's flooded with shovelware.

If it were me, I'd write that you can only release 6 games a year, including from companies owned. Exceptions can be made for titles of high quality (how you would measure this would be up to Nintendo), but in general B tier and lower would be limited.

I mean fuck, something has to be done.

I guess we should be thankfull that places like Target are telling publishers that do this shit to GTFO.