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[Deku]

With PSP2 so close they're hardly spending that much on the PSP project at this point.



That doesn't even address his point. Sure Sony isn't happy, but that's neither here nor there.

It will probably be back up to its 100k a month range next month or whenever, which is still pretty bad, but why should they throw away money for no reason? The PSP2 will come when it's ready.

In the closing months of the 2nd world war, the Japanese wished, hoped and prayed that the the divine wind would save the island nation from invasion. Sink US carriers and that the Battleship Yamato would rise again from its grave.

 

[Macho Madness]

That doesn't even address his point. Sure Sony isn't happy, but that's neither here nor there.

It will probably be back up to its 100k a month range next month or whenever, which is still pretty bad, but why should they throw away money for no reason? The PSP2 will come when it's ready.

Yep, stagnation is really going to improve those sales. :lol GAF

If you think Sony is honestly happy with the way the PSP is going, you have something wrong with you.

 

[Zen]

Yep, stagnation is really going to improve those sales. :lol GAF

Your criticizing me when you're ignorant to the fact that April is traditionally a depressed month in the industry?

If you think Sony is honestly happy with the way the PSP is going, you have something wrong with you.

I'll repeat myself since it seems to have gone over your head.

That doesn't even address his point. Sure Sony isn't happy, but that's neither here nor there. He made a factual statement related to business and economics and you retort with 'oh yeah? But are they happy about it?'. Talk about missing the point.

No, of course they aren't happy, but that has 0 to do with the subject at hand.

Bonus points: that I even answered your 'do you honestly think Sony is happy' pre edit in the previous post and you were apparently too thick to read.

 

[timetokill]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

Now THIS is incredible :lol :lol

 

[Zen]

That is a nice troll. :lol

 

[Boney]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

I just.. where am I?

 

[fredrancour]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

If this isn't trolling, because I know some people actually don't understand econ/business in the slightest, google "opportunity cost" (although the other guy to actually take your response seriously kind of summarized it) and if you're a student somewhere, take microeconomics at the next opportunity if you want to understand why this statement makes no sense.
Think of it this way: you have a low-paying job that still gives you enough money to survive. You have an offer to take a much higher-paying job. If you don't change jobs you miss out on the chance to make more money. Now imagine you're a corporation whose sole purpose is to make as much money as possible. Your only responible choice to yourself and your employees is to pursue the more profitable job/ product/whatever

 

[HK-47]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Beth Cyra]

Kuja's bikini was lame. I didn't even comment on his hair....my god you love Kuja?! Oh the humanity.

All other FF's sold "like crap" compared to FF7 & FF8. Not surprising since those two were plastered all over every fucking channel, mag and god knows what else I'm forgetting here, before and after they released.

lol @ bringing up DQ9 because that is one oldschool as fuck series...and guess what? It has not seen a decline in sales all these years! Imagine that! Take THAT oldschool fanboys/girls! lulz DQ9 even took a step back in graphics!



The reality is FF8 had the first real backlash to the series (used copies flooded stores much like FF13 has), and the sales stopped growing and dropped pretty hard until it is now hovering at around 2 million or less, in JAPAN, where it matters most (if the series dies there, it dies everywhere. ). WW sales for FF7 & FF8 were also much higher than all the FF's that followed. No wonder you capped at "5 million +"

I don't think anybody really counts FFX-2 as a main entry...FF11 sure wasn't. FF12 got hate from people who loved FF10, and love from people who never gave a shit about FF until it "copied" WRPGs and people who hated FF10's guts. Just like FF10 got hate for its corridor shit, no airships, no worldwap and Tidus, while FF9 got hate for not looking "omgzsobadass" like FF7 & FF8. But none of those compared to the FF8 backlash. And that was before we had the "omg I hate JRPGs!!!1!1" crowd.

Another thing is FF8 had FF7's hype to help sell it , which FF13 did not have from FF12, nor did FF12 have it from FFX, X-2 or FF11. The series has remained stagnant and survived off the combination of the goodwill from fans who can't let go or don't want the series to die or hope the next one will get better or all of the above. On top of that you have all the (mostly young) newbies who join with each new installment to mask the decline that would show from those who DO give up and stop buying.

Just look at DQ and how healthy the series still is. It hasn't been thrown across the room several times like FF, and because of that DQ's fanbase isn't fractured to hell and full of fans demanding completely different things from DQ. Trying to expand is one thing, but doing stupid shit like Square did to FF only leads to an impossible to please fanbase and stagnant or declining sales. Just like what happened to Zelda.

Oh and dear god @ 4WOL. It's like it was made by (or tampered with) people who didn't want oldschool FF to ever get a second chance. Just wow. Mystic Quest has finally been dethroned!

Okay firstly you can't just write off 4WOL just because you don't like it or whatever you think the game actually is. What it is is a throw back to old style Final Fnatasy and it failed simple as that. That and to assume the team making it never wanted old school FF to have a chance is stupidity at it's finest.

Two other things you are forgetting or stretching out are the fact that Although yeah FF VIII did have a high return rate it also had some pretty greatl legs amongst fellow FF titles. That and VIII is fucking awesome and all the haters can go to hell.

Lastly Yes Dragon Quest 9 sold 4 million in Japan, awesome game and everything. Big problem is that is really the only place Dragon Quest sells, so in the end it is likely that FF XIII will see more simply because it does well in other markets. That and you are ignoring just two big things, DQ is DQ and FF shouldn't try to be DQ and even if it did it would could kill the franchise on a world wide scale. So the question is 4 million in JPN> Over 5 million world wide?

 

[Stumpokapow]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

Okay, let's say you have a million dollars to invest. You have three different investment ideas

- One investment idea is to spend a million bucks and open a bendy straw factory. You spend the million dollars, you make a bunch of bendy straws, and you earn $1,065,000. You've made a profit.

- One investment idea is that you sign Lady GaGa to a record studio you open. You spend the $1,000,000 on the album and you earn $2,000,000. You've made a profit.

- One investment idea is that you bribe a guy to tell you where they buried all the Atari 2600 ET cartridges in the desert. You spend the $1,000,000, get the carts, and resell for a buck a piece--you earn a cool $3,000,000. You've made a profit.

You can't do all three simultaneously because you only have a million dollars, right? So you've gotta pick one. Clearly you pick the third choice, right, because it makes you the most money?

Sony doesn't make every product on earth. They pick some products to make. They're not going to start selling baloney. They're not going to manufacture sports cars. They're not going to become Jamba Juice franchisees. It's not that you can't make money doing those things. It's not that they can't make money doing those things. It's that they only have so much in the way of resources, and so they choose business sectors based on what they're good at and what they think will maximize their return on investment.

Now, if you were Sony, do you think it'd make sense to tie up thousands of employees and hundreds of millions of dollars in investment to generate that $65,000 profit you're talking about? Or would it make more sense to do something else?

Lastly Yes Dragon Quest 9 sold 4 million in Japan, awesome game and everything. Big problem is that is really the only place Dragon Quest sells, so in the end it is likely that FF XIII will see more simply because it does well in other markets. That and you are ignoring just two big things, DQ is DQ and FF shouldn't try to be DQ and even if it did it would could kill the franchise on a world wide scale. So the question is 4 million in JPN> Over 5 million world wide?

That would be the question if the budget of the two games and the selling price of the two games were the same, yes.

 

[Boney]

Okay firstly you can't just write off 4WOL just because you don't like it or whatever you think the game actually is. What it is is a throw back to old style Final Fnatasy and it failed simple as that. That and to assume the team making it never wanted old school FF to have a chance is stupidity at it's finest.

Two other things you are forgetting or stretching out are the fact that Although yeah FF VIII did have a high return rate it also had some pretty greatl legs amongst fellow FF titles. That and VIII is fucking awesome and all the haters can go to hell.

Lastly Yes Dragon Quest 9 sold 4 million in Japan, awesome game and everything. Big problem is that is really the only place Dragon Quest sells, so in the end it is likely that FF XIII will see more simply because it does well in other markets. That and you are ignoring just two big things, DQ is DQ and FF shouldn't try to be DQ and even if it did it would could kill the franchise on a world wide scale. So the question is 4 million in JPN> Over 5 million world wide?

Way to miss the point entirely.

Haven't played 4WOL (duh), but J-GAF impressions haven't been positive. Battle system is broken, and really feels like a spinoff instead of an actual throwback to traditional (old-school I guess) Final Fantasies.

Also, the inclusion of DQ into the discussion is not to make FF be more like DQ in terms of design and marketing. It's how they've maintain the IP really well for all these years. All these Final Fantasies spinoffs dilute the experience and expectations of next mainline Final Fantasies. Especially if each main Final Fantasy is way different in regards of themes and style they carry, further alienating existing fans.

DQ has never appealed to the West, yes, but they haven't depended on it, and haven't changed it to try and win 'em over alienating Japan's fan base.

On the other hand you have Final Fantasies, which try to appeal to both audiences, which of course is a great strategy and planning. But a difficult job to perform. And I don't think they've managed it well. xs_mini_neo did a great job explaining how they haven't cultivated the franchise well, as he explains all the differences each one had. Giving facts about how the sales are diminishing instead of expanding.

It will get sales on namesake alone, but that won't last forever.

 

[Zen]

Okay, let's say you have a million dollars to invest. You have three different investment ideas

- One investment idea is to spend a million bucks and open a bendy straw factory. You spend the million dollars, you make a bunch of bendy straws, and you earn $1,065,000. You've made a profit.

- One investment idea is that you sign Lady GaGa to a record studio you open. You spend the $1,000,000 on the album and you earn $2,000,000. You've made a profit.

- One investment idea is that you bribe a guy to tell you where they buried all the Atari 2600 ET cartridges in the desert. You spend the $1,000,000, get the carts, and resell for a buck a piece--you earn a cool $3,000,000. You've made a profit.

You can't do all three simultaneously because you only have a million dollars, right? So you've gotta pick one. Clearly you pick the third choice, right, because it makes you the most money?

Sony doesn't make every product on earth. They pick some products to make. They're not going to start selling baloney. They're not going to manufacture sports cars. They're not going to become Jamba Juice franchisees. It's not that you can't make money doing those things. It's not that they can't make money doing those things. It's that they only have so much in the way of resources, and so they choose business sectors based on what they're good at and what they think will maximize their return on investment.

The point you're making, relative to his 1 dollar example, is sound. But all of your examples are based upon initial investment costs. There's next to zero overhead costs for the PSP that aren't going to be flipped into PSP2. If Sony makes 30-40 dollars per PSP and they sold X Million in Q4 how does killing it and making zero money for resources that will sit idle until PSP2 make any sense.

It's not like they're shutting down their Handheld part of the company, all of those employee wages etc are being transferred over to PSP2 related work. Resource saving for stopping PSP are non existent , and at this point it would cost the company way more money to stop it than to keep selling hardware and 3-50 dollars profit a pop.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

Okay firstly you can't just write off 4WOL just because you don't like it or whatever you think the game actually is. What it is is a throw back to old style Final Fnatasy and it failed simple as that. That and to assume the team making it never wanted old school FF to have a chance is stupidity at it's finest.

Two other things you are forgetting or stretching out are the fact that Although yeah FF VIII did have a high return rate it also had some pretty greatl legs amongst fellow FF titles. That and VIII is fucking awesome and all the haters can go to hell.

Lastly Yes Dragon Quest 9 sold 4 million in Japan, awesome game and everything. Big problem is that is really the only place Dragon Quest sells, so in the end it is likely that FF XIII will see more simply because it does well in other markets. That and you are ignoring just two big things, DQ is DQ and FF shouldn't try to be DQ and even if it did it would could kill the franchise on a world wide scale. So the question is 4 million in JPN> Over 5 million world wide?

It's a throwback alright...but to what? Not FF. And I said "it's like" not "it is." The old FF formula is easy as shit to copy and paste today, but they did not do that. Why?

Yeah, FF8 had great legs alright...so great it immediately walked back to the stores it was purchased from.

Yeah, DQ is too hardcore for...the world. *rimshot* lol @ thinking FF being more like DQ would kill it, but not all the ridiculous stuff in, say, FFX-2.

If hell doesn't have FF8, then I'm there dude.

Way to miss the point entirely.

Haven't played 4WOL (duh), but J-GAF impressions haven't been positive. Battle system is broken, and really feels like a spinoff instead of an actual throwback to traditional (old-school I guess) Final Fantasies.

Also, the inclusion of DQ into the discussion is not to make FF be more like DQ in terms of design and marketing. It's how they've maintain the IP really well for all these years. All these Final Fantasies spinoffs dilute the experience and expectations of next mainline Final Fantasies. Especially if each main Final Fantasy is way different in regards of themes and style they carry, further alienating existing fans.

DQ has never appealed to the West, yes, but they haven't depended on it, and haven't changed it to try and win 'em over alienating Japan's fan base.

On the other hand you have Final Fantasies, which try to appeal to both audiences, which of course is a great strategy and planning. But a difficult job to perform. And I don't think they've managed it well. xs_mini_neo did a great job explaining how they haven't cultivated the franchise well, as he explains all the differences each one had. Giving facts about how the sales are diminishing instead of expanding.

It will get sales on namesake alone, but that won't last forever.

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

Yeah, but the dollar is only worth like half that or worse now. More like 20 cents per PSP. And that's before taxes. 1$ - 10% tax - 90 cents, but since the dollar is worth so much less now, you are netting like a dime or two.

 

[Beth Cyra]

It's a throwback alright...but to what? Not FF. And I said "it's like" not "it is." The old FF formula is easy as shit to copy and paste today, but they did not do that. Why?

Yeah, FF8 had great legs alright...so great it immediately walked back to the stores it was purchased from.

Yeah, DQ is too hardcore for...the world. *rimshot* lol @ thinking FF being more like DQ would kill it, but not all the ridiculous stuff in, say, FFX-2.

If hell doesn't have FF8, then I'm there dude.







Yeah, but the dollar is only worth like half that or worse now. More like 20 cents per PSP. And that's before taxes. 1$ - 10% tax - 90 cents, but since the dollar is worth so much less now, you are netting like a dime or two.

Well I don't know what you wanted out of 4WOL, sure it was rough and not all the idea's worked as well as they thought, but I still think writing it off isn't being fair to the title either. The simple story line, the characters and the art style are all things I think share similarties with previous FF's. If you don't well that is fair but I do.

Never said DQ was to hardcore just that it's formula doesn't work on a world wide basis.

And X-2 clearly didn't kill the series as it is still going to sell over 5 million units and there are fans still calling for FF X-3.

And the whole VIII only walked back into stories is nonsense, it is cool to hate the game but come on now, it sold well even after launch and the fanbase split on it. Just like it has been selling well on PSN since it's launch. Trying to make it out otherwise is just dumb.

 

[Kevtones]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

layered, provactive,

Spoiler

and stupid

 

[GitarooMan]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

:lol :lol This is a true classic

 

[cvxfreak]

Aside from all being developed by Capcom, what do they have in common? I could have sworn that CapGod said that DC didn't do that well also. I see no reason why MH3 will have legs just cause some other games did.

1. They're all relatively hardcore games compared to other popular Wii offerings.
2. Most Wii games actually have decent legs, even if we never see them on the limited NPD charts.
3. Capcom games on Nintendo platforms never have explosive beginnings, but good consistent sales throughout.
4. Capcom's Wii games have done well when budget priced, or post-price drop.

I'm more interested in finding out why MH3 actually has to buck the trend now, when there are few indicators that it will.

 

[Y2Kev]

- One investment idea is that you sign Lady GaGa to a record studio you open. You spend the $1,000,000 on the album and you earn $2,000,000. You've made a profit.

What a ridiculous premise. This investment would yield at least US $50,000,000,000.

 

[Brofist]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

Well this guy has got the right idea. I say they hang on all the way down to 20 units sold in a month, surely it's enough profit to buy the staff lunch for a day.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

This....

This is so amazing.

Someone bookmark this so we can have a thread in the future with the best (joking or not) comments of Sales Age.

 

[Chozo]

The point you're making, relative to his 1 dollar example, is sound. But all of your examples are based upon initial investment costs. There's next to zero overhead costs for the PSP that aren't going to be flipped into PSP2. If Sony makes 30-40 dollars per PSP and they sold X Million in Q4 how does killing it and making zero money for resources that will sit idle until PSP2 make any sense.

It's not like they're shutting down their Handheld part of the company, all of those employee wages etc are being transferred over to PSP2 related work. Resource saving for stopping PSP are non existent , and at this point it would cost the company way more money to stop it than to keep selling hardware and 3-50 dollars profit a pop.

Except there are still resources tied up in PSP production that can't be allocated to other things so long as the PSP is still being produced. Money that pays for the parts that go into the handheld, factories (or money used to contract them) that make the PSP, cost of distributing your handheld worldwide, the personnel costs that entitles, etc.

The main point Stumpokapow is making is that--while those costs will still probably be there with the PSP2--the potential ROI long term is a lot better than staying the course with a handheld that is, for all intents and purposes, dead outside of Japan. You can't disregard resources already "in play" if they can be reinvested for greater results elsewhere, especially if they're relatively flexible resources like manpower and production facilities. Meanwhile, you're arguing from a false premise: that those resources be used to make PSPs, or they'll lie fallow and do nothing at all.

 

[justchris]

Well I don't know what you wanted out of 4WOL, sure it was rough and not all the idea's worked as well as they thought, but I still think writing it off isn't being fair to the title either. The simple story line, the characters and the art style are all things I think share similarties with previous FF's. If you don't well that is fair but I do.

I find it odd that you don't consider the gameplay a part of the appeal of classic FF. If gameplay were taken out of the equation entirely, then your position would be perfectly valid, considering that very nearly every complaint I've heard about 4WoL has been about the gameplay.

 

[tino]

This....

This is so amazing.

Someone bookmark this so we can have a thread in the future with the best (joking or not) comments of Sales Age.

Somebody need to put it on cafepress and print it on mouse pads.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I find it odd that you don't consider the gameplay a part of the appeal of classic FF. If gameplay were taken out of the equation entirely, then your position would be perfectly valid, considering that very nearly every complaint I've heard about 4WoL has been about the gameplay.

Something can be a throw back and not succed. I am was not trying to make the claim that 4WOL succeded in achieving the qualtiy of the original 6 games. I am simply saying that it does harken back to the originals and where meant to.

 

[Draft]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

Flawless.

 

[TheOddOne]

Pressure mounts on E3 to prove industry can grow long-term

After worse than expected game sales for the month of April, there is increasing pressure on the games industry to prove that new hardware offers potential for long-term growth in the videogame business.

According to US analysts, the 26 per cent drop in revenues during April will "spook" the investment community, despite the decline partly attributable to the Easter sales period falling a month earlier than last year.

"April 2010’s results will only exacerbate the growing concerns about the long-term viability of the traditional retail packaged goods market as back catalogue sales and mainstream/casual titles continue to deteriorate at a quicker pace over expectations," said EEDAR's Jesse Divnich in a note to investors.

Wedbush Morgan's Michael Pachter added that, "on balance, we expect investors to be spooked by the April results, and expect many to continue to believe that the videogame industry is in a state of persistent secular decline."

With investors expecting the current generation to come to a close, this year's E3 could prove critical for the industry to highlight the potential for growth – new hardware, both announced and rumoured to be revealed – will need to excite the market beyond 2010.

"Despite what may feel like depressing numbers, the future remains bright for the industry. With new technology on the horizon (PlayStation Move, Microsoft Natal, 3D Gaming, and the Nintendo 3DS), the industry is likely to rebound this holiday season," offered Divnich.

"However, this does put an extraordinary amount of pressure at this year’s E3 event to demonstrate that these new technologies can rekindle excitement among mainstream and core consumers. If these technologies fail to generate the excitement and anticipation needed for medium term sales performance improvements this may accelerate the completion of this current hardware cycle.

"Even with the impressive release schedule in the holiday season, which includes new titles for large franchises such as Halo, Medal of Honor, Ghost Recon, and Call of Duty, EEDAR believes that the launch of the PlayStation Move, Microsoft Natal and possible new hardware from Nintendo to be crucial to the success of the 2010 holiday season," he added. "If either of the new technologies fail to excite consumers, software sales could retreat into the negatives for calendar year 2010 and would only reinforce concerns among investors about the long-term viability of the traditional packaged goods market."

May must also be a positive month for sales, with releases such as Super Mario Galaxy 2, Red Dead Redemption, Alan Wake, Lost Planet 2, Skate 3 and THQ's new UFC title all packing potential at retail.

"We think that investors will stay on the sidelines until they see evidence of a sustainable rebound in sales, which we expect to commence in May," said Pachter.

Poor April results were also due to the lack of long-tail sales for single-player games released the previous month, claims Doug Creutz of Cowan and Company, and it is online and digital strategies that can add shelf life to multiplayer titles as single-player games are traded in quickly after completion.

Sony's God of War III sold only 180,000 units last month in the US, compared to 1.10 million in March, while Square Enix's Final Fantasy XIII shifted 1.32 million in its release month, compared to only 91,000 units in April. In comparison, the multiplayer focused Battlefield: Bad Company 2 sold 1.28 million in March, and 273,000 in April.

"We believe the data suggests that sales of single-player games without a robust online or multiplayer functionality are seeing a significant negative impact from the used game market," said Creutz.

"If correct, our thesis does pose a problem for the ability of AAA titles, particularly those that do not feature a robust multiplayer mode, to maintain sales momentum beyond the initial release window."

Online console gaming is another significant area for growth, with publishers likely looking to continue to monetise play beyond the initial purchase of a disc. EA's Project Ten Dollar and Ten Dollar Pass are examples of monetising the amount of hours consumers spend online, and other publishers are likely to follow suit.

"If EA's plan is successful, we would not be surprised if similar programs become increasingly standard for all publishers over the next 12-18 months," offered Creutz.

Activision is also likely to look at additional ways of charging for online play, said Pachter, after the success of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2.

"We anticipate that Activision will find a way to monetise the 1.75 billion hours of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 online play on the Xbox 360 in the first five months following the game’s release. This gameplay suggests that as many as 12 million gamers (PS3 and Xbox 360 combined) played online for an average of 10 hours per week for the five months since the game’s launch.

"It is obvious to us, and likely equally obvious to Activision, that these gamers are spending a lot of time that was monetised only through the original purchase. In the future, we think that Activision will find a way to charge for some portion of online gameplay, and if successful, we think that other publishers will follow suit."

 

[Busaiku]

91,000 between both platforms for Final Fantasy XIII?
Wow, that's far worse I would've ever expected, even after getting the top 20.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

91,000 between both platforms for Final Fantasy XIII?
Wow, that's far worse I would've ever expected, even after getting the top 20.

Outside of Nintendo, Japanese console games are becoming more and more niche by the day.

 

[jay]

I sell razor-filled chocolates. We moved 67,000 units last month.

Then by all means don't think of phasing out your product. Until zero units are shifted per month I say keep on slicing.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Something can be a throw back and not succed. I am was not trying to make the claim that 4WOL succeded in achieving the qualtiy of the original 6 games. I am simply saying that it does harken back to the originals and where meant to.

4WoL resembles old-school Final Fantasy as much as FF13 does. You're trying to act like the intention to appeal to an audience is the same thing as appealing to it; if only that were true. You're also trying to say that quality should have nothing to do with it, which is fucking goofy.

Basically you're trying to say that a game of lesser quality that does not resemble the look of older FF games, does not have the composer of older FF games, and has completely different gameplay (in crucial ways) from older FF games is a fair indicator of the sales potential of a classic-style FF game just because that's who the marketing weasels were aiming for. You're either unfamiliar with classic FF, unfamiliar with 4WoL, or just really terrible at forming a coherent argument.

 

[Somnid]

4WoL resembles old-school Final Fantasy as much as FF13 does. You're trying to act like the intention to appeal to an audience is the same thing as appealing to it; if only that were true. You're also trying to say that quality should have nothing to do with it, which is fucking goofy.

Basically you're trying to say that a game of lesser quality that does not resemble the look of older FF games, does not have the composer of older FF games, and has completely different gameplay (in crucial ways) from older FF games is a fair indicator of the sales potential of a classic-style FF game just because that's who the marketing weasels were aiming for. You're either unfamiliar with classic FF, unfamiliar with 4WoL, or just really terrible at forming a coherent argument.

Actually his ignorance validates his own argument. You would only make your argument after you've played for it, and thus purchased it.

 

[justchris]

Something can be a throw back and not succed. I am was not trying to make the claim that 4WOL succeded in achieving the qualtiy of the original 6 games. I am simply saying that it does harken back to the originals and where meant to.

Okay firstly you can't just write off 4WOL just because you don't like it or whatever you think the game actually is. What it is is a throw back to old style Final Fnatasy and it failed simple as that. That and to assume the team making it never wanted old school FF to have a chance is stupidity at it's finest.

4. 4 Warriors of Light is a throw back, probably even more so then IX and it fucking tanked in Japan on DS where DQ IX sold over 4 million units so just one more peice of proof that all the people whinning for a throw back are doing it simply because they want it and not because it would actually do any better then XII or XIII was able to.

What are you trying to say? Your opponents are trying to explain that 4WoL is a failure at hearkening back to the original games in the series. If that was it's goal, it failed to accomplish it's goal, and was also a sales failure. Considering that its target market would be fans of the old games, these two facts are probably linked.

And while FFVII and the later FF games did sell better than the first 6 games, the sales of any one of the first six games put 4WoL's sales to shame. The sales of remakes of the first six games put 4WoL's to shame. If the 3rd or 4th remake of a game can still outsell it, can you really claim it was a successful attempt at being a throwback to the originals? At this point, which do you think has sold more, FFI and every remake and rerelease there has been of it over the past 22 years, or FFVIII and every rerelease there has been of it over the past 11?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Actually his ignorance validates his own argument. You would only make your argument after you've played for it, and thus purchased it.

Or if you've been informed about the particulars of it. Word of mouth does exist, after all. At any rate, the game is a poor example the way he's trying to use it no matter how you look at it.

 

[Zen]

Meanwhile, you're arguing from a false premise: that those resources be used to make PSPs, or they'll lie fallow and do nothing at all.

Not at all, and in fact I think you've misunderstood me; the point is that killing the PSP is entirely misguided at this point in time. People saying Sony should kill the PSP are purposefully ignoring the financial benefits of keeping it alive, and it's not like those same transferable resources won't be shifted to PSP2 when it comes out. Similarly there are a lot of resources put into the current PSP distribution that can't simply be 'rellocated' to something not specific to their intended purpose, other than 'hand held stuff' within SCEWWS.

Like I've said more than once, the PSP2 will come when it's ready, killing off the PSP distribution right now is beyond a bad idea, especially if they can still squeeze out 1 million WW of hardware sales, say during the quarter that the PSP2 is out.

They sold 9.9 million PSPs in 2009, they'll wind down production and investment in it (as they already have been). Even When PSP2 comes out they'll still sell a few million PSPs worldwide in FY2010.

BS Math 9 900 000 x $50 = $495,000,000

It's not that simple and their margin might not be that big, but the point stands that keeping the PSP in distribution is fine, and with the small ish amounts it's moving, it's not like this is actually a taxing amount for a company to handle.

The real point that people are missing is that, internally, Sony's 'PSP' resources are predominantly 'PSP2' and have been for some time. The resources you'd gain by killing the PSP, even after the PSP2 comes, are marginal considering the external resources used for PSP will phase out PSP1 and phase in PSP2.

The impact of converting all resources that currently are PSP to PSP2 wouldn't offset the fact that they'd no longer be selling PSP, and wouldn't tangibly benefit PSP2 at this time. Maybe production facilities could be rolled into PSP2 production, if possible, but it's not like that wouldn't happen anyway as PSP wound down.

 

[donny2112]

You're trying to act like the intention to appeal to an audience is the same thing as appealing to it; if only that were true. You're also trying to say that quality should have nothing to do with it, which is ... goofy.

This strongly reminds me of third-parties' "casual" efforts on the Wii. They attempt to appeal to the audience but fail, and many of them seem to think quality has nothing to do with it. :lol

 

[charlequin]

Okay firstly you can't just write off 4WOL just because you don't like it or whatever you think the game actually is. What it is is a throw back to old style Final Fnatasy and it failed simple as that.

It's really not as "simple as that." There are tons of factors that play into 4WOL's failure and "people rejected the style of the old-school FF" is super-low on the list, especially given that not too long before FF3 for DS was a bona-fide hit.

Actually his ignorance validates his own argument.

This is maybe the worst argument you've ever made, and you've had some real whoppers.

Not at all, and in fact I think you've misunderstood me; the point is that killing the PSP is entirely misguided at this point in time.

All your logic about this is completely sound, but I really honestly don't think anyone in this thread meant that the PSP should be killed in any sense except that a PSP2 should be released as soon as possible thereby "killing" the PSP as Sony's current handheld device.

(Or if they were, well, I wasn't, at least.)

 

[Beth Cyra]

It's really not as "simple as that." There are tons of factors that play into 4WOL's failure and "people rejected the style of the old-school FF" is super-low on the list, especially given that not too long before FF3 for DS was a bona-fide hit.



This is maybe the worst argument you've ever made, and you've had some real whoppers.



All your logic about this is completely sound, but I really honestly don't think anyone in this thread meant that the PSP should be killed in any sense except that a PSP2 should be released as soon as possible thereby "killing" the PSP as Sony's current handheld device.

(Or if they were, well, I wasn't, at least.)

Hmm does appear my arguement has been shot down. I don't know much of 4WoL, I haven't picked it up yet as it is not in english. But as far as I was aware this was marketed and talked about as a throw back to Classic Final Fantasy.

I haven't been in the import thread as I don't want to be spoiled so the few bits that have been talked about outside of it has shown me that it has been enjoyed and hated by both. I didn't know the that the game was widely considered a failure (then again I love XIII so I will still pick it up anyway.)

Also is FF III DS a good argument for Old school? I mean didn't the game barelyl reach around 1.5 Mil with FF IV just barely reaching a million if at all?

 

[AdventureRacing]

Also is FF III DS a good argument for Old school? I mean didn't the game barelyl reach around 1.5 Mil with FF IV just barely reaching a million if at all?

They are remakes not new games so im not sure it's fair to expect that much more. Also FFXIII sold less than 2 million so i don't know if barely reaching 1.5 million is that bad in comparison.

 

[Jackl]

I'm going to chalk it up to recessions not over, lot of retail sectors are still down or flat as a pancake. Sales tax receipts in general is still plunging in many states. For all the talk of recovery people are still cutting back.

In the industry I think besides maybe "The One" game people buy day one, if it isn't preowned, or on sale. Its not moving.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Square Enix's Final Fantasy XIII shifted 1.32 million in its release month, compared to only 91,000 units in April

I take back what I said about retailers ordering more FFXIII this holiday. It's far more likely that they're packing stacks of them up to send back to Japan.

"It is obvious to us, and likely equally obvious to Activision, that these gamers are spending a lot of time that was monetised only through the original purchase. In the future, we think that Activision will find a way to charge for some portion of online gameplay, and if successful, we think that other publishers will follow suit."

Yes, I'm sure once Activision starts to "monetize" every aspect of the CoD experience gamers won't simply drop it for the next shooter-du-jour that doesn't treat them like they're brainless sacks of cash. /sarcasm

It's really amazing to me how some of these publishers act like they're producing a product that you simply can't find anywhere else :/

 

[Cat in the Hat]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

:lol

 

[m3k]

I would. Isn't the point of any product to make a profit? Even if the PSP only net one dollar for Sony, that's still 65000 dollars in ONE month, far greater than even the YEARLY average personal income of citizens of the USA, the most prosperous and wasteful state in the history of the world.

:lol

global political trolling


sony needs the psp to be selling more considering how much lost ground they need to cover

point blank period

 

[shintoki]

Pressure mounts on E3 to prove industry can grow long-term

Entire thing is just depressing.


"Sony's God of War III sold only 180,000 units last month in the US, compared to 1.10 million in March, while Square Enix's Final Fantasy XIII shifted 1.32 million in its release month, compared to only 91,000 units in April. In comparison, the multiplayer focused Battlefield: Bad Company 2 sold 1.28 million in March, and 273,000 in April.

"We believe the data suggests that sales of single-player games without a robust online or multiplayer functionality are seeing a significant negative impact from the used game market," said Creutz."

This is a pretty unfair statement. While it is true that games with multiplayer normally have longer legs. Bad Company 2 has fantastic word of mouth while God of War III and FFXIII don't. GoWIII has solid word of mouth going on, while FFXIII is getting trashed. Games have really become "Hollywood". Hype will let them open big, but if you want to maintain solid sales. The game has to deliver. It is easier for online titles to bring in friends, but publishers really underestimate how important WoM is to the industry.

"If EA's plan is successful, we would not be surprised if similar programs become increasingly standard for all publishers over the next 12-18 months," offered Creutz.

Activision is also likely to look at additional ways of charging for online play, said Pachter, after the success of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2.

"We anticipate that Activision will find a way to monetise the 1.75 billion hours of Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 online play on the Xbox 360 in the first five months following the game’s release. This gameplay suggests that as many as 12 million gamers (PS3 and Xbox 360 combined) played online for an average of 10 hours per week for the five months since the game’s launch.

"It is obvious to us, and likely equally obvious to Activision, that these gamers are spending a lot of time that was monetised only through the original purchase. In the future, we think that Activision will find a way to charge for some portion of online gameplay, and if successful, we think that other publishers will follow suit."

This part just makes me want to cry. The nickle and dime stuff for online is pretty much free money. It's how all those F2P MMO's work. I mean they design 3 new maps and import 2, and selling it for 1/4 of what it cost for the entire game. Better yet, the only cost they have to pay is MS/PSN royalties and probably not even 1% of what it took to develop the game. Once you get a title in place that people can't quit. It's easy to offer them these incentives to expand upon it for a low price. Even for smaller games, if you can get a dedicated fanbase for a steady stream of income. It turns out to be much more prosper over time.

 

[Kujo]

65k is not good, but they did sell around 150k in Japan last month, so ~250k WW is not bad enough to end it yet.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Entire thing is just depressing.


"Sony's God of War III sold only 180,000 units last month in the US, compared to 1.10 million in March, while Square Enix's Final Fantasy XIII shifted 1.32 million in its release month, compared to only 91,000 units in April. In comparison, the multiplayer focused Battlefield: Bad Company 2 sold 1.28 million in March, and 273,000 in April.

"We believe the data suggests that sales of single-player games without a robust online or multiplayer functionality are seeing a significant negative impact from the used game market," said Creutz."

This is a pretty unfair statement. While it is true that games with multiplayer normally have longer legs. Bad Company 2 has fantastic word of mouth while God of War III and FFXIII don't. GoWIII has solid word of mouth going on, while FFXIII is getting trashed. Games have really become "Hollywood". Hype will let them open big, but if you want to maintain solid sales. The game has to deliver. It is easier for online titles to bring in friends, but publishers really underestimate how important WoM is to the industry.

No he's right. The numbers don't lie. Bioshock for example had incredible word of mouth and it sold great, but at the same time the developers knew from Xbox Live stats that the number of unique players vastly exceeded the number of sold copies. It turns out that their game was one of the most traded in games up to that point. The great word of mouth meant nothing when the game experience was over.

I mean you're right too, FF13 has been weak critically, but multiplayer and DLC features are super important.

 

[timetokill]

It should be obvious.

I know I do it -- if there are two games I want about the same amount, and one has multiplayer and the other doesn't, I'll go with the multiplayer one first. At the time of launch is when most people are playing the game, and you don't want to jump in late. Meanwhile a single-player experience stays the same any time you play it.

Additionally, with a multiplayer game you are more likely to hold onto it to keep playing it, whereas with most single-player games you're done with it when you reach the end of the story.

Combine these two, and know that when you go in later for that single-player game that you originally decided to wait on, there are a bunch of other people that played it and (maybe) finished it, and now you're buying their used copy because it doesn't make sense to pay the extra $10 for the new one (usually).

 

[Nirolak]

No he's right. The numbers don't lie. Bioshock for example had incredible word of mouth and it sold great, but at the same time the developers knew from Xbox Live stats that the number of unique players vastly exceeded the number of sold copies. It turns out that their game was one of the most traded in games up to that point. The great word of mouth meant nothing when the game experience was over.

I mean you're right too, FF13 has been weak critically, but multiplayer and DLC features are super important.

Another great example of this is Dead Space. The game sold 1.5 million copies, but by the XBL/PSN stats, they know that over 3 million people played it.

I know I do it -- if there are two games I want about the same amount, and one has multiplayer and the other doesn't, I'll go with the multiplayer one first. At the time of launch is when most people are playing the game, and you don't want to jump in late. Meanwhile a single-player experience stays the same any time you play it.

I know I do this too. I picked up Mass Effect 2 several weeks later, but bought Battlefield: Bad Company 2 on launch day since I wanted to play with all of my friends who were getting it at the same time.

 

[Version 3.0]

Another great example of this is Dead Space. The game sold 1.5 million copies, but by the XBL/PSN stats, they know that over 3 million people played it.

A) That doesn't prove anything in regards to used game sales. Those could be rentals, Goozex users, multiple users in households, or friends lending to each other just as easily as used games.

B) Even if they are used sales, too bad, corporate jerks. Consumers have the right to sell their games. Stop blaming the used game market, which benefits everyone including you, for your troubles.

 

[hsukardi]

No he's right. The numbers don't lie. Bioshock for example had incredible word of mouth and it sold great, but at the same time the developers knew from Xbox Live stats that the number of unique players vastly exceeded the number of sold copies. It turns out that their game was one of the most traded in games up to that point. The great word of mouth meant nothing when the game experience was over.

I mean you're right too, FF13 has been weak critically, but multiplayer and DLC features are super important.

The question would probably be whether developing a multiplayer component is worth the extra retention afforded by it. If you look at Battlefield 2's performance, it's doing well in its second month compared to GOWIII and FFXIII but you have to calculate the profits that the 100+K unit difference (in this case, and not forgetting to mention that this difference will continue to grow larger in the months to come) makes and see whether it's worth allocating resources to developing multiplayer in traditionally predominantly single player games.

 

[hxa155]

A) That doesn't prove anything in regards to used game sales. Those could be rentals, Goozex users, multiple users in households, or friends lending to each other just as easily as used games.

B) Even if they are used sales, too bad, corporate jerks. Consumers have the right to sell their games. Stop blaming the used game market, which benefits everyone including you, for your troubles.

how does it benefit the publishers?