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[lunchwithyuzo]

If Eastern development was still leading the industry, you'd have more embarrassing titles like Bayonetta, and the hobby would still be niche as it was in the 1990s.

The major growth this generation was mostly Japanese driven.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

If Eastern development was still leading the industry, you'd have more embarrassing titles like Bayonetta, and the hobby would still be niche as it was in the 1990s.

The only major games from the West to expand the industry this generation were Call of Duty, Angry Birds, Farmville, and maybe Guitar Hero/Just Dance. I don't see how those games are less "embarrassing" than the games of the 90s...

 

[Bluth54]

GT5 to forever to make. I must say that Polyphony has supported the game post launch like no other dev has done this generation. They need to be applauded for that.

Incorrect.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Patches

 

[Sydle]

The major growth this generation was mostly Japanese driven.

You referring to the Wii and DS?

 

[pakkit]

Glad to see Rage didn't do bad for first month numbers, hopefully it gets good holiday sales as well.

 

[ZeroRay]

You referring to the Wii and DS?

Some of the best selling games this gen were Japanese.

Of course in these discussions, Nintendo doesn't count.

 

[test_account]

So ... that means we can total up Forza 2, Forza 3 and Forza 4 sales then since they all released this gen?

Sure, they are all within the same franchise.

I'll save my applause for developers that don't take 6 years to make a game only to release it in a completely broken, and rushed state. Supporting a game and patching in fixes, missing features, etc. are two completely different things.

Completely broken is hyperbole. I've played GT5 at launch and it worked fine. I agree that they should have worked maybe 2-3 more months to iron out some of the smaller issue though, but the game was far from being "completely broken".

 

[stupei]

If Eastern development was still leading the industry, you'd have more embarrassing titles like Bayonetta, and the hobby would still be niche as it was in the 1990s.

Oh damn, you almost had me fooled.

For the record: a subtle troll at least pretends to respond to the post they're quoting. You've got the "repeat the same bullet points over and over regardless of context" part down, but you have to tie it back into what you're responding to. You know, like when you take a test and you restate the question within your answer while you bullshit.

 

[test_account]

Incorrect.
http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Patches

Wow. If all those patches were to fix bugs and glitches etc., then i wonder how the game was at launch

EDIT: I guess maybe not all patches was to fix bugs and glitches though, could be added content and balancing stuff etc. like that website said (i read a bit fast the first time when i posted).

 

[pharmboy044]

Some of the best selling games this gen were Japanese.

Of course in these discussions, Nintendo doesn't count.

Of course they do but only when they're doing bad.

 

[Kusagari]

That PC has sold at least 1 million based on Steam stats and the fact that the vast majority of Bethesda sales are on consoles.


When you've been trash talking the competition for two years straight and even saying that you'd be killing off COD and then going on to most probably selling less than a hardcore FP WRPG I would be ashamed.

Skyrim is hardly 'hardcore' anything. The games are designed for the mainstream now.

 

[a Master Ninja]

I want to know the PS3/360 sales split on Dark Souls and Arkham City. Anybody?

 

[mujun]

I find myself agreeing with JaxJag to a degree. At least in terms of aesthetics.

Bayonetta was definitely embarrassing to play in front of my wife whereas playing say, Catwoman in Batman was not.

Playing Pokemon or DQ on the train would be a little embarrassing whereas playing Plants and Zombies or Angry Birds would not be.

My personal feelings, of course.

I look forward to the day when Japanese games "feel" like they are made for a more broad audience than male super geeks and 12 year old kids.

I'm generalizing but it's definitely something I feel is true when I compare Western games with Japanese ones.

 

[BurntPork]

Wow. If all those patches were to fix bugs and glitches etc., then i wonder how the game was at launch

EDIT: I guess maybe not all patches was to fix bugs and glitches though, could be added content and balancing stuff etc. like that website said (i read a bit fast the first time when i posted).

Valve has a tendency to break things when they add new stuff, and then break other things when they fix what they broke the first time.

 

[Alrus]

Playing Pokemon or DQ on the train would be a little embarrassing whereas playing Plants and Zombies or Angry Birds would not be.

This has nothing to do with the game themselves though, but everything to do with the devices they're played on. Nobody would bat an eye if you played Pokemon or DQ on your iphone and you know it.

 

[mujun]

This has nothing to do with the game themselves though, but everything to do with the devices they're played on. Nobody would bat an eye if you played Pokemon or DQ on your iphone and you know it.

Not the case at all. I'd happily tell students at work that I play Angry Birds, not the case with Pokemon.

It is connected to the image that the game has in the eyes of the general public. Pokemon is a kids game, people only really expect elementary and JH kids to play it. Angry Birds is seen more as a casual game, a short time filler. It's something pretty much someone of any age would play.

Part of that might be the platforms said games are on but it also has to do with aesthetics and observation.

EDIT Not to mention they are examples. Why pick apart the quality of my examples instead of addressing my point.

 

[Delio]

Playing Pokemon or DQ on the train would be a little embarrassing whereas playing Plants and Zombies or Angry Birds would not be.

Huh I've never been embarrassed to play pokemon infront of people. Hmm I guess it depends on the person.

 

[Codeblue]

Not the case at all. I'd happily tell students at work that I play Angry Birds, not the case with Pokemon.

It is connected to the image that the game has in the eyes of the general public. Pokemon is a kids game, people only really expect elementary and JH kids to play it. Angry Birds is seen more as a casual game, a short time filler. It's something pretty much someone of any age would play.

Part of that might be the platforms said games are on but it also has to do with aesthetics and observation.

EDIT Not to mention they are examples. Why pick apart the quality of my examples instead of addressing my point.

Because your post was a bunch of examples on why you agree with Jaxjag and if they don't support your point then you don't have one. Not agreeing or disagreeing with you, I just think wanting to know more about the examples you gave is valid.

 

[Alrus]

Well what codeblue said. I think the Pokemon example is invalid by the way, the reason you're embarrassed to play it is because it's a franchise aimed at kids, and that fact has nothing to do with it being Japanese... So it doesn't really help Jaxjag's (pretty stupid) argument.

The DQ one is debatable, I don't really see why it would be embarrassing to play.

The Bayonetta example is fine, but Mass Effect and Dragon Age both have ridiculous sexualisation too (although not quite so over the top, but still, some pretty embarrassing stuff in there) and they're western made.

All in all, you and Jaxjag are generalizing, and that's just a pretty dumb thing to do.

 

[clashfan]

This has nothing to do with the game themselves though, but everything to do with the devices they're played on. Nobody would bat an eye if you played Pokemon or DQ on your iphone and you know it.

Actually if you are a grown man and you are playing Pokemon in public it is pretty embarrassing. It doesn't matter the device.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

The DQ one is debatable, I don't really see why it would be embarrassing to play.

the slime is ALL HAPPY and shit

 

[mujun]

Huh I've never been embarrassed to play pokemon infront of people. Hmm I guess it depends on the person.

It's subjective, that goes without saying. Which means that JaxJag has a point.

Well what codeblue said. I think the Pokemon example is invalid by the way, the reason you're embarrassed to play it is because it's a franchise aimed at kids, and that fact has nothing to do with it being Japanese... So it doesn't really help Jaxjag's (pretty stupid) argument.

The DQ one is debatable, I don't really see why it would be embarrassing to play.

The Bayonetta example is fine, but Mass Effect and Dragon Age both have ridiculous sexualisation too (although not quite so over the top, but still, some pretty embarrassing stuff in there) and they're western made.

All in all, you and Jaxjag are generalizing, and that's just a pretty dumb thing to do.

Don't focus on each example. I was attempting to support my point with examples. The point I made was that Japanese games, in general are aimed more at kids and geeks.

Doesn't mean that the same thing doesn't happen with Western games (it does, plenty of stuff aimed at geeks/hardcore) or that Western games' aesthetics can't be embarrassing, too (dudebro in Gears or Mass Effect examples). I think it's a matter of degrees though and would agree that Japanese games (again, in general) are more "embarrassing" because, like I said before they aren't nearly as much aimed at my age group as Western games are.

I also don't strictly agree with the ME example. I don't think it's embarrassing nor do I think it's overly sexualized. If you go into a strip club/seedy club then you'd expect to see girls dancing. Seems realistic to me. Bayonetta on the other hand comes across as some sort of 30 year old Japanese man's idea of the perfect woman (insane proportions and a desire to show it off at the drop of a hat).

I will say this too. It's an irrefutable fact that games are far more legitimate as a form of entertainment in the West than they are in Japan.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Microsoft has been on fire this gen. They should really be praised for their strategy.

Nintendo gets a lot of love but they more so lucked out and due to their system marching in uncharted territory they didn't really know where to take it.

EDIT - When playing a game, Western cliches aren't as embarrassing as Japanese cliches, due to them being well Western...

 

[Kai]

The only major games from the West to expand the industry this generation were Call of Duty, Angry Birds, Farmville, and maybe Guitar Hero/Just Dance. I don't see how those games are less "embarrassing" than the games of the 90s...

You forgot Blizzard bro - WoW made MMO's "mainstream" and is the most profitable game in video game history.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

Skyrim is hardly 'hardcore' anything. The games are designed for the mainstream now.

If a 100+ hour rpg of any kind is considered 'mainstream' then what the fuck is hardcore?

 

[Raide]

If a 100+ hour rpg of any kind is considered 'mainstream' then what the fuck is hardcore?

Dark Souls?

 

[John Harker]

I want to know the PS3/360 sales split on Dark Souls and Arkham City. Anybody?

DS about 30k favoring PS3. Surprisingly close considering the PS3 pedigree.

 

[Mariah Carey]

Don't focus on each example. I was attempting to support my point with examples. The point I made was that Japanese games, in general are aimed more at kids and geeks.

Except your comparison falls apart with almost any other example? Mario and Zelda really aren't any more (or less, really) embarrassing than Angry Birds.

I will say this too. It's an irrefutable fact that games are far more legitimate as a form of entertainment in the West than they are in Japan.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but every time I'm in Japan I'm surprised how much 'bigger' videogames are there than in the States. It seems like everybody plays games there; girls, boys, teens, grandparents. Pop stars actually release singles for video game soundtracks. I remember there was a commercial where two people are in a supermarket and they fight over something and menus start popping up on the screen like it's some RPG battle or something. Videogames are steeped in the culture there in ways I've never seen in the West.

 

[BishopLamont]

Japan is the real aberration, as the PS3 ran circles around the 360 even before it got any decent exclusives, and now regularly outsells it 15:1 despite sharing most of the same AAA games.

You talk like this is a surprise or any sort of achievement, its amazing. I just had to quote this.

 

[mujun]

Except your comparison falls apart with almost any other example? Mario and Zelda really aren't any more (or less, really) embarrassing than Angry Birds.

I don't think it does. I think my examples hold up better than yours and that there are far more examples of games that support my argument over yours. Mario and Zelda aren't good examples imo, they have a certain timelessness and care put into them that makes them transcend the age group they are aimed at (read even as a 36 year old I wouldn't feel too embarrassed playing the latest 3DS Mario on the train.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but every time I'm in Japan I'm surprised how much 'bigger' videogames are there than in the States. It seems like everybody plays games there; girls, boys, teens, grandparents. Pop stars actually release singles for video game soundtracks. I remember there was a commercial where two people are in a supermarket and they fight over something and menus start popping up on the screen like it's some RPG battle or something. Videogames are steeped in the culture there in ways I've never seen in the West.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but every time I'm in Japan I'm surprised how much 'bigger' videogames are there than in the States. It seems like everybody plays games there; girls, boys, teens, grandparents. Pop stars actually release singles for video game soundtracks. I remember there was a commercial where two people are in a supermarket and they fight over something and menus start popping up on the screen like it's some RPG battle or something. Videogames are steeped in the culture there in ways I've never seen in the West.

This is totally untrue and sounds like the observations of someone who only knows Japan as an outsider. I don't want to come off condescending, please don't take it that way but I've been in Japan a long time and (ironically the examples you gave seem to support my argument) video games are far less accepted as an adult past time here. Generally speaking games are aimed at teens and kids and if you aren't one of those and you play them well, you are immature and should move on to womanizing/work/boozing (men) or rearing the kids/working/shopping (women).

Gender stereotypes (and age stereotypes) are much stricter here.

 

[Kusagari]

Actually if you are a grown man and you are playing Pokemon in public it is pretty embarrassing. It doesn't matter the device.

Funny because I've found that in my 20's most people still love Pokemon. If you grew up with it, chances are you still love it. The only handheld game I've ever seen people play on my college campus is Pokemon.

 

[Gadfly]

DS about 30k favoring PS3. Surprisingly close considering the PS3 pedigree.

This gives us around 55%-45% split if the total sale was 300K-400K. The difference in percentage would be even less if they have sold more.

 

[Massa]

This gives us around 55%-45% split if the total sale was 300K-400K. The difference in percentage would be even less if they have sold more.

Sales apparently were close to 350k, so about 190k PS3 and 160k 360.

 

[Rated-Rsuperstar]

So what did Ace Combat do? Didn't Project Aces says that if the game flopped the series was dead?

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

Ace Combat died last gen.

 

[rosjos44]

It's subjective, that goes without saying. Which means that JaxJag has a point.



Don't focus on each example. I was attempting to support my point with examples. The point I made was that Japanese games, in general are aimed more at kids and geeks.

Is it subjective or really a personal insecurity? I think American gamers judge things way to critically on what others play and that general outlook on those types of games brings forth insecurities when playing them.

 

[Dunlop]

your guys got me all excited thinking I missed a new NPD thread