friskykillface
Banned
poor rayman 
but like others have said, sent out to die, what a terrible time to release it now.
but like others have said, sent out to die, what a terrible time to release it now.
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NPD November 2011 Sales Results [Update 7: Skyrim, CoD Wii, PC Retail Sales Up 57%]
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bigtroyjon
Member
XBLA revenue grew big time last quarter while 360 retail revenue shrank. It's not going anywhere.
Nintendo's number is from their PR response to the NPD data.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
what platforms? your sonic number is handheld alone...
unless its SUPER bomb on consoles
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Lol. Just the 3DS version guys. Crisis adverted.
Definitely agree with that. Especiall in Sonic Team's case.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Dear Michel Ancel,
Although there is clearly no justice in this world, thank you nonetheless for a completely amazing game. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Sincerely,
Grotesquebeauty
Although there is clearly no justice in this world, thank you nonetheless for a completely amazing game. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Sincerely,
Grotesquebeauty
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Looks like I'll be making some bomba bin purchases in January!
Ace Combat.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
forgeforsaken
Member
It is Batman's 2nd month...and Saints Row deserves to be higher if anything.
Ouch. I wonder how the PSP Ace Combats did in comparison... There was 2 of them, one of which was released last summer.
sixteen-bit
Member
I don't know why they thought releasing them right around the time 2 mario games were released was a good idea...
Ken Masters
Banned
I thought the same thing myself, yea rayman gets largely ignored this time of year, but this time of year is also when games make the most sales
Look at the comments here, people crying it wasn't $15 DLC, this game wasn't going to sell no matter when it released
Still, while I don't agree they should have sold it 60$, it's mainly that I find people's mentality a bit sad really. Your argument for a game not being worth 60$ is "2D / platform game / character hasn't had a big release in 8 years".
This means alot of wrongs things. How come the fact it's "2d" makes it a worse game (aka less valuable)? Since when the fact it's 3D means it's better then? A "platform game" now. It's a genre just like any other. Are certain genres are worth more money? Genre aren't just a matter of taste? different audiences? And then what about a character... It needs to have had a game last year to be worth it? The fact there was a Sonic game last year gives more chance for the Sonic of this year to be a better game? A Mario game after 5 years must be strungling to be worth it!
Basically, all you mention in that comment of yours isn't related to a game's worth. If it was, it means that a 3D shooter with last's year character would automatically be worth more. You should have told me about something the entertainment it provides and maybe the amount of content, or again, production values. They are all part of a game worth, even if still second to the entertainment premise.
The reason why I think it was an error to sell 60$ isn't that the game isn't worth 60$. It's a high quality game full of content that is worth the other AAA beside it on the shelve. The error was to think people had overcome that mentality that "2D is worth less than 3D" when it's only a presentation style. To think that people could see "platformers" as something else than a genre of the past, or again, to think IP recognition wouldn't be influencing a purchase over the premise of fun.
Sorry to use your comment to express my opinions, I hope you don't feel attacked or anything, you are part of a large majority of gamers. Therefore, you're normal and I am of another kind. It just makes think at larger issues and behaviors I see in such forums like here where you can see gamers complain the games are samey, fuck yearly release and what not. They feel the monotony. But at the same time, when a game is outside the mold, not exactly like what they are used to but still quality, they probably wouldn't buy the game. This leads to publishers trying even less. And that's bad for everyone.
So yeah, sad that Rayman bombed this hard. I wish it would have score some 3-400k or something.
Third parties on Nintendo hardware.
It's never gonna change.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I hate to be a wet blanket, but these numbers point to a 3DS western 3rd party situation eerily similar to the DS.
No one is going to be happy with these kinds of numbers in the biggest sales months of the year, with virtually zero competition on the console aside from two (two!) big first party games.
No one is going to be happy with these kinds of numbers in the biggest sales months of the year, with virtually zero competition on the console aside from two (two!) big first party games.
Sorry if this argument has been made already, but I don't really understand people saying Rayman should have been $15.
Let's say out of the $60, Ubisoft gets $35. And out of digital sales of $15, Ubi gets $10. This is all theoretical since I'm not sure of the exact cut. To attain the profit Ubi got at retail on the digital market instead, they would need to sell over 175,000 copies on Xbox Live/Steam/PSN. Could they do it? Possibly, but it's hard to say.
At least this way they can hit retail first, then after a few months hit the digital market at a cheaper price and scoop up a few more sales. It's still a pretty bad outlook for Rayman either way, but I don't think it was a mistake to go for retail at $60.
Let's say out of the $60, Ubisoft gets $35. And out of digital sales of $15, Ubi gets $10. This is all theoretical since I'm not sure of the exact cut. To attain the profit Ubi got at retail on the digital market instead, they would need to sell over 175,000 copies on Xbox Live/Steam/PSN. Could they do it? Possibly, but it's hard to say.
At least this way they can hit retail first, then after a few months hit the digital market at a cheaper price and scoop up a few more sales. It's still a pretty bad outlook for Rayman either way, but I don't think it was a mistake to go for retail at $60.
I'm not sure why you mentioned western when all those games are Japanese.
Rush2thestart
Member
Aside from Sonic on Wii, none of those games would've been successful on other platforms.
My point is more like if Outland, Bastion and other jaw droppingly awesome XBLA games can't break 175K there's no way in hell Rayman will either (even at $15 or $10)
With millions and millions of potential 360/PS3 owners it's kind of depressing those numbers seem so hard to achieve, where a single map pack for a FPS game pulls in literally insane numbers (not the game, just one of its map packs)
Shinobi was actually developed in the US, but none of those games are major titles anyways. Sonic did decently on 3DS given it was going up against Mario.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
It's a big change for Sonic. Nintendo handhelds have traditionally been the franchise's 2nd strongest market.
If the games are of the same quality? YES And honestly alot of it has to do with other games of it's genre. Super meat boy is by far the best 2d platformer this gen and it was 10/15 (forgot which) on XBLA and cheaper multiple times due to sales on steam. Rayman could have been the greatest 2d platformer of all time and had 100s of hours of content and I still wouldn't have found 60$ appealing.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Cave Story 3D was developed in the US too.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Thank you for giving me a dim view of humanity.
bigtroyjon
Member
Costs are higher on a retail release, I don't know by how much but manufacturing/shipping/marketing isn't free.
Also take a much bigger risk in having a bunch of unsold product.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I mean in as far as the DS gets the reputation in Western countries where 3rd party games don't sell at all, and developers don't bother to put shit out on it. The DS doesn't have any trouble selling 3rd party software in Japan.
chubigans said:
Super Meat Boy, Scott Pilgrim, Braid, and Limbo have precedent as 2D games that have done that well on PSN/LIVE/Steam. And they're still selling. And most were released in the doldrums of summer. There is no precedent for games like this doing well on the HD consoles at full price at retail. NSMB and DKCR certainly show it's possible to have a breakout hit of that sort on the Wii, but the set of circumstances for Mario/DK and Rayman aren't even comparable. Rayman hasn't had a relevant console release in 8 years. The re-release of Rayman 3 isn't coming out until next spring. There were at least two dozen high-profile releases ahead of Rayman Origins in mindshare coming into this holiday.
Perhaps Ubisoft (and some posters here) should explain why this game costs 4x as much as Super Meat Boy, which many regard as one of the best games of 2010.
But the real question is, what is the worth you give to Super Meat Boy? Knowing the game now, and knowing its your platformer of the gen and the amount of entertainment you got from it, was it worth more than it's price of entry? How many 60$ gave you 4 times the fun you had? (15$ x4).
Then there's productions values. I agree it CAN influence the price and in a certain way it should, but just not as much as the promise of entertainment. Super Meat Boy is probably worth at least 30$
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Because the game has way more scope and variety and the production values are about 1000 times higher?
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I think perception of production values greatly influences pricing. When people buy a game that looks like a Hollywood movie, they justify $60. When they buy a game with a shiny plastic peripheral, they justify $99.
Consumers now expect games of flash quality to cost .99 to $5. They expect the same of puzzle games to an extent. They expect expansion packs to be $30 or less. They expect dance games to be $39 or less. They expect handheld games to be $39 or less. This comes from years of established competitive pricing from a variety of sources (HD consoles, iOS, Steam, retail). No consumer product exists in a vacuum, they are all influenced by market expectations. If you buck expected pricing trends, you do so at your own risk.
Everyone likes Angry Birds. You could not release Angry Birds 1080p-HD Special Edition for $59.99 and expect it to sell as well as the iOS version.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
$40 price tag and functional retardation in terms of release window from third parties on Nintendo Platforms...it's never gonna change.
Why did they wait until Mario? Why did they charge that $40 premium? Once third parties wrap their heads around those points, their software will flounder.
That being said, Sonic and Cave Story performed better than I thought they would.
jonnyram is going through a phase tonight, there's no need for this
Hah, completely forgot about that one.
Yeah I neglected the 3d part too. So it's only a huge bomba on 1 platform and probably only a regular bomba on the rest
I agree production value plays a role. I just think it's a bit too strong. Also, people are not necessarily good as dicerning production values, case in point, Rayman is having tremendously higher production values than your average flash game or Angry Birds. It probably did cost triple what Angry Bird needed too.
I personally see Rayman Origins something that should have been sold at like 39$ or something. Maybe 29$. The game probably wouldn't make more money at PSN/XBLA price range of 10-15$ bucks.
bigtroyjon
Member
So did THQ.
I think Rayman Origins would've EASILY cleared 175k across those three platforms. Probably significantly more, especially if they held it for one of Microsoft's big XBLA promotional pushes ("Spring Block Party", "Summer of Arcade" etc).
Limbo sold 875k on XBLA alone according to Rlan's sales charts. So there is definitely a market for it there.
bigtroyjon
Member
Determining the difference in production values and actually caring about those differences are two different things.
Of course people don't have to care. But I hope that people like to play the same AAA games over and over again then. Because no publisher will risk anything when they get the shaft the second they put the toe outside the line.
Sorry this is a little OT but I have no idea where else to ask:
Is Nintendo the only one of the big 3 that has an annual holiday display/demo area/experience in malls?
Every holiday season my local mall, also one of the most popular malls in the area, has a "Nintendo experience" but I've never seen a similar set up for Microsoft or Sony. You'd think Kinect and Move would make good attractions for shoppers and their kids during the christmas buying weeks.
Another mall a few miles away has a permanent microsoft store and families tend to gather there to hang out and demo games. But that's only in one specific mall whereas I think the "Nintendo Experience" moves around or something. And Sony doesn't seem to have either. You'd think all 3 would take advantage of the increase in shoppers during the holiday season.
Is Nintendo the only one of the big 3 that has an annual holiday display/demo area/experience in malls?
Every holiday season my local mall, also one of the most popular malls in the area, has a "Nintendo experience" but I've never seen a similar set up for Microsoft or Sony. You'd think Kinect and Move would make good attractions for shoppers and their kids during the christmas buying weeks.
Another mall a few miles away has a permanent microsoft store and families tend to gather there to hang out and demo games. But that's only in one specific mall whereas I think the "Nintendo Experience" moves around or something. And Sony doesn't seem to have either. You'd think all 3 would take advantage of the increase in shoppers during the holiday season.
Can you give a ballpark for how Sonic did on all consoles combined? Better than Rayman?
bigtroyjon
Member
Plenty of variety in the games on Live in terms of both content and budget.