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NPD August 2012 Sales Results [Up3: Sleeping Dogs]

L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
test_account said:
The boxed copies forecast also includes digital downloads, i'm 99.9% sure of it. Sega listed for example that Premier Manager 2012 sold 710k, and this game was only listed under "package goods". I cant imagine that a PC game in this day and age sells this much for a physical copy (the game excist for PSP too, but i dont think that sold a lot). They didnt list this game under "digital games", which they should have done if they wanted to distinct physical and downloadable games from eachother.
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Physical PC copies are still big sellers in Europe (in Germany especially), 710k isn't an insane figure worldwide given FM is usually a million seller and it's across 2 platforms. Sega distinguishes between boxed and digital pretty plainly, and the Miku projections specifically are reaffirmed in their platform breakdowns by SKU count for packaged games (+250k sales for one new Vita SKU in Q2 FY12). A good counter example too is that Sega places PSO2 Vita as a major title in digital games while Diva f is in packaged games in the same report. If Sega combined figures interchangably for console games, PSO2 would be classed under packaged.
 
J

Jigsaw

Banned
Chris1964 said:
You mean 280K/2 and DDD is almost 350K.
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still embarrassing performance for ddd,that's the amount of hardware the 3ds sells in 2 weeks

a re-release is pretty much a given at this point,the question is just will they go with re:dream or final mix for the name
 
M

Mario007

Member
Jigsaw said:
still embarrassing performance for ddd,that's the amount of hardware the 3ds sells in 2 weeks

a re-release is pretty much a given at this point,the question is just will they go with re:dream or final mix for the name
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A BBS+DDD HD remake could be one way to go.
 
C

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
Jigsaw said:
still embarrassing performance for ddd,that's the amount of hardware the 3ds sells in 2 weeks

a re-release is pretty much a given at this point,the question is just will they go with re:dream or final mix for the name
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Japanese performance is embarrassing, I don't argue that.

There wasn't additional content for the western release so obviously there won't be a Final Mix.
 
S

SykoTech

Member
Whoa. People are wondering if KH is done for? Come on now.

DDD's performance was laughably pathetic and all, but the whole series isn't in any big danger. KHIII will be the talk of the web whenever it's finally announced. At worse, the series will be slightly past its prime.

Hopefully the franchise is "done for" in terms of platform-hopping, handheld entries though.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
airmangataosenai said:
"Failing", lol. I predicted 180k retail (Not counting bundles and digital, and what Extend did) and it did 160k. If anything I was one of the more accurate guesses on that game's performance considering that almost nobody predicted over 140k FW. Nice try though.
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I distinctly remember something about best series debut ever and Amazon rankings proving it. I'm happy that everyone laughing you back to reality allowed you to come up with something more reasonable. Enjoy your first and last Vita Miku. :)
 
A

airmangataosenai

Member
lunchwithyuzo said:
I distinctly remember something about best series debut ever and Amazon rankings proving it. I'm happy that everyone laughing you back to reality allowed you to come up with something more reasonable. Enjoy your first and last Vita Miku. :)
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Damn, some serious hostility here. Guess I hit a nerve with the 3DS prediction lol.

Sales-Age: Serious Business ©.
 
J

Jigsaw

Banned
Mario007 said:
A BBS+DDD HD remake could be one way to go.
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ah yes,but that would make too much sense for square. re:birth by sleep sounds good too though

on the other hand,if they announce any sort of hd collection soon for late 2013 ,that would push kh3 even farther behind :\
 
P

Peff

Member
Chris1964 said:
Japanese performance is embarrassing, I don't argue that.

There wasn't additional content for the western release so obviously there won't be a Final Mix.
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KH2 didn't get any extra stuff either, and it had the largest gap between territories because of the euro dubs. Not saying there will be a FM because I don't think so myself, but we'll find out soon enough.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
Mario007 said:
I was drawing more comparison with MH jump on 3DS. It continued to sell well even after the first week as the fanbase bought into the new platform. I think next Wednesday will probably say a lot about Miku on Vita, though.
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Comparing Miku to Monhun is a BAD idea. Just ask test_account. :p


Mario007 said:
I'd say so. DS was an extremely successful system that had its zenith going on for ages. The user install base and the software attach rate on DS was great even in 2009.
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Hardware trucked on, but software started declining in 2009, collapsed in 2010, bottomed out in 2011. DS prime was 2006-2008 without question, after that soccer moms found R4.


Mario007 said:
My argument may be a bit naive, but I think that games have long legs thanks to positive word of mouth. So the better the game the better the word of mouth.
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Again, Days versus BBS proves the opposite. This is a non-factor for this series in America, the wider audience just doesn't care / isn't informed and simply buy the games if they own the system.


Mario007 said:
They take about the same time to complete. Although I agree the polish of BBS is nowhere to be seen in DDD.
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Uh, no they didn't?! 3D was done in 2 years, BBS took nearly 5 iirc. Both also started on different platforms (BBS on PS2, 3D on PSP).
 
B

Barack Lesnar

Banned
Mario007 said:
The team that made the original KH games is working on Versus (ie working on any project Square needs to save before working on Versus).

The DS games were outsourced to h.a.n.d and BBS and DDD (the mainline games) were made by a Square team in Osaka. The team is, presumably, too small for HD console games and with PSP and 3DS the team could reuse a lot of PS2 era assets.
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Sounds like really poor organization and management
 
A

Acosta

Member
lunchwithyuzo said:
I distinctly remember something about best series debut ever and Amazon rankings proving it. I'm happy that everyone laughing you back to reality allowed you to come up with something more reasonable. Enjoy your first and last Vita Miku. :)
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That's pretty pathetic. You should consider giving the keyboard a rest.
 
A

airmangataosenai

Member
Heavy said:
Sounds like really poor organization and management
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Unfortunately that seems to be par the course at Square now. Not that it makes the spin-off games bad as they still have Nomura's input but I would definitely say that it's devalued the brand some over the years. KH had a convoluted story to begin with, I can barely remember a lot of the themes in KH2 leading up to the ending with how long its been now.
 
T

Taurus

Member
pixelbox said:
OK, so how much did Mario kart/SMG sell compared to wii fit and wii sports? Better yet, how much did The conduit and what was it...Red steel sell compared to those games? Do you think it's healthy to have a userbase of 80 million but third party can't crack 1? Or that they can't sell a 10th of what 1st party does? Nintendo's 1st party sells does nothing for an industry of diversity.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

And why do you keep bringing up Wii Fit? Conduit was a mediocre FPS game made by a former shovelware developer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Voltage_Software#Developed_games), Red Steel was a mediocre game with flawed controls made by B or C tier Ubisoft studio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft_Paris). If you keep wondering why mediocre to bad games sell badly compared to great Nintendo titles I can clarify you that with one word: quality.
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
lunchwithyuzo said:
Physical PC copies are still big sellers in Europe (in Germany especially), 710k isn't an insane figure worldwide given FM is usually a million seller and it's across 2 platforms. Sega distinguishes between boxed and digital pretty plainly, and the Miku projections specifically are reaffirmed in their platform breakdowns by SKU count for packaged games (+250k sales for one new Vita SKU in Q2 FY12). A good counter example too is that Sega places PSO2 Vita as a major title in digital games while Diva f is in packaged games in the same report. If Sega combined figures interchangably for console games, PSO2 would be classed under packaged.
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Where do they do that? I've checked some of the sales report and they always seems to combine digital and physical sales into one number. I've also havnt seen any games being listed under "digital games" eventhough that most of the sales come from that (mainly PC games).

But lets say that the 710k copies for FM2012 is boxed only, why do they ignore all the digital sales in their report? It is afterall offered as digital download, but it isnt listed in that section.

The 260k figure for Vita games for Q2 is divided on 3 SKUs, it doesnt say anywhere that this is 250k for Miku boxed copies only, unless i'm missing something?

Will PSO2 Vita be available at retail by the way? I thought it would be digital download only there.
 
E

Eternia

Member
airmangataosenai said:
Damn, some serious hostility here. Guess I hit a nerve with the 3DS prediction lol.

Sales-Age: Serious Business ©.
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Yeah, who would have thought writing posts with your opinion changing to whatever fits your argument by the hour, get called out on it, then get defensive about the whole situation would bother anyone? What I don't understand is why discuss anything if you value your word at essentially nothing?

Here, I'll be that person. Best opening in the series; at least top Extend or opening of 200k at retail or I really meant 180k but the current opening is still good because everyone else was looking at <150k LTD.
 
A

Acosta

Member
lunchwithyuzo said:
I like you more when you post about 3rd G PSP/Vita. :[
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Just a friendly tip, honest. It's not nice to use sales to attack a system or a user that enjoys a system (that goes for everyone). Regulars in sales thread should do more to avoid a pissing contest using numbers.

I haven't posted about 3rd G for Vita BTW.

Edit: meh, I tried...
 
D

Dalthien

Member
lunchwithyuzo said:
Hardware trucked on, but software started declining in 2009, collapsed in 2010, bottomed out in 2011. DS prime was 2006-2008 without question, after that soccer moms found R4.
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True, but Re-Coded was still selling between 5-10k per month in the US just last month (July).
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
test_account said:
Where do they do that? I've checked some of the sales report and they always seems to combine digital and physical sales into one number. I've also havnt seen any games being listed under "digital games" eventhough that most of the sales come from that (mainly PC games).

Will PSO2 be available at retail by the way? I thought it was a free2play game, digital download only.
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PSO2 & PDf in the FY12 report on page 38. PSO under digital, Diva under packaged. Samurai & Dragon Vita was also listed under digital in the FY13Q1 report too, there's definitely a distinction being made.

PSO2 Vita is going to be both packaged and (free) digital, just like Samurai & Dragon Vita. And there's nothing I can find in any of IR docs that say they're combining package and digital in the platform breakdowns, indeed the SKU counts would imply that distinctly isn't the case.

edit: Quoted before your edit. The methodology for discerning the numbers is laid out by Sega in the notes. Quarters are cumulative, so Q2 contains SKUs & sales from Q1 added to it. You have to subtract 2 SKUs and 10k sales (Q2 lists 260k sales, not 250k). Sega also notes no catalog sales are included in the figures, it's only new titles and sales only for the quarter they release in.
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
...And in the end lunchwithyuzo really followed Takao's steps as he desired. See you soon, man XD
 
T

test_account

XP-39C²
lunchwithyuzo said:
PSO2 & PDf in the FY12 report on page 38. PSO under digital, Diva under packaged. Samurai & Dragon Vita was also listed under digital in the FY13Q1 report too, there's definitely a distinction being made.

PSO2 Vita is going to be both packaged and (free) digital, just like Samurai & Dragon Vita. And there's nothing I can find in any of IR docs that say they're combining package and digital in the platform breakdowns, indeed the SKU counts would imply that distinctly isn't the case.

edit: Quoted before your edit. The methodology for discerning the numbers is laid out by Sega in the notes. Quarters are cumulative, so Q2 contains SKUs & sales from Q1 added to it. You have to subtract 2 SKUs and 10k sales (Q2 lists 260k sales, not 250k). Sega also notes no catalog sales are included in the figures, it's only new titles and sales only for the quarter they release in.
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Do you have a link to that report? I find a lot here: http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/ir/library/settlement.do. But none of them have 38 pages from what i can see.

I know it says 260k, but i'm wondering where the 10k come from? Where does it say that they expect 10k sales from the two remaining SKUs? I'm just trying to understand how these things are listed in their report :)

I see. I remember hearing talk that PSO2 wouldnt be tracked because it was digital download only. But maybe it was just speculations.

EDIT: I think that Samurai & Dragons is listed under digital games in that section because it follows a different business model, relying on item purchases in the game (micro transactions). I assume that the retail version will not be based on micro transactions. In that case, it isnt the exact same game (so to speak). Miku is the exact same game, just purchased differently. I also think that they expected the biggest share of sales from Miku to come from retail copies, so maybe that is why they highlighted that title under package goods in that part for their presentation.

EDIT 2: Doh, didnt see the ban :(
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Regarding the sega says Project Diva F has poor sales thing there was a follow up on that same twitter account to clear things up.

https://twitter.com/nakanohito_1go/status/243363860877291520

My amature rough translation is: "There seems to be a misunderstanding. There will be more to buy in the future. Its because we aim to be the best selling Vita game of 2012."

The tweets that started all of this had nothing about dropping support and the blogger just added that assumption on his own. It could just mean DLC but it still makes it sound a lot less harsh than at first.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Andrex said:
Why was he banned?
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I'd guess for posts like these:

lunchwithyuzo said:
I distinctly remember something about best series debut ever and Amazon rankings proving it. I'm happy that everyone laughing you back to reality allowed you to come up with something more reasonable. Enjoy your first and last Vita Miku. :)
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lunchwithyuzo said:
Embarrassingly gross ignorance is just a pet peeve of mine. Apologies.
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Instead of discussing sales, he was basically using them as excuses to insult others.
 
L

lefantome

Member
Dynopia said:
Last tie ratio we got for US on 360 was 9.4 couple months ago, in the UK the last reported tie ratio was over 10. Places like Japan, Aus ect are high as well.

That 826m Wii SW figure gives the Wii roughly a 8.6 attach ratio, is 7.7 in the US though.
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the ration includes more than 150 millions games sold in various bundles: console, wiimote, wiifit etc..
The real ration is even lower.

Also the average age of the wii is higher than xbox 360.

Xbox sold 17 millions in more than a year, the peak of wii was long time ago.
 
P

pixelbox

Member
Taurus said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Wii_video_games

And why do you keep bringing up Wii Fit? Conduit was a mediocre FPS game made by a former shovelware developer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Voltage_Software#Developed_games), Red Steel was a mediocre game with flawed controls made by B or C tier Ubisoft studio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft_Paris). If you keep wondering why mediocre to bad games sell badly compared to great Nintendo titles I can clarify you that with one word: quality.
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Because that's what people are using to meaasure tie ratios of the wii. And what about Mad World? And if IIRC The Conduit was build from the ground up for the wii. And why did 3rd party avoid the wii. But anyway, my point was there was alot of artificial growth this Gen. without any real justification.
 
S

Salvadora

Member
DGRE said:
I don't get why Square hasn't gotten the message yet. KH fans don't really want handheld iterations.
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It's probably more to do with the amount of handheld iterations. They should never have left it this long for a numbered sequel. 3 isn't even on the horizon!
 
D

DGRE

Banned
Salvadora said:
It's probably more to do with the amount of handheld iterations. They should never have left it this long for a numbered sequel. 3 isn't even on the horizon!
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5 released games since 2, including the rerelease of chained, right?

Edit: Or was GBA Chained released before 2
 
T

Taurus

Member
pixelbox said:
Because that's what people are using to meaasure tie ratios of the wii. And what about Mad World? And if IIRC The Conduit was build from the ground up for the wii. And why did 3rd party avoid the wii. But anyway, my point was there was alot of artificial growth this Gen. without any real justification.
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Wii Fit is a stand-alone title so why shouldn't it be counted?

Mad World is an ultra violent M-rated action game a with very different art style. It's too different to be a huge success on any platform (=niche).

I can build a game from the ground up for Wii but it still doesn't make it a good game, does it? Are you seriously wondering why such a mediocre game (http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/the-conduit) wasn't a commercial success?

3rd parties avoiding Wii has been discussed dozens of times earlier in GAF. Main reason: Wii was a surprise success; everyone was expecting it to fail and PS3 to take the lead. Thus, software wasn't there when Wii launched, and it never came. Half-assed ports, quick cash-ins and bad to mediocre games were used as justifications to prove that 3rd parties cannot success on Wii (which is not true since Wii owners responded to good games ie. RE4 Wii, MonHun Tri, Epic Mickey etc.) There was a huge chunk of money on the table with the Wii for developers and publishers to take, but they refused to take it and kept betting for HD consoles. It's not that simple, but some of those bad decisions made this list as long as it is: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459131

Wii was there to offer a cheaper way to create video games for example for smaller companies compared to higher dev costs on HD consoles. Video game industry is heading for a crash, or into a situation where only safe sure-to-be-hit sequels (for example see: Call of Duty) are made anymore:

Doooooooooooooomed-1.jpg
 
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