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[Linus Tech Tips] PlayStation just killed PC VR

KuraiShidosha

KuraiShidosha

Member
Dane said:
He did notice in Village, when you enter the Dimitrescu's Castle there's a massive downres at the painting wall, the lightining reflection is very pixelated.
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Do you mean like specular bloom? Because if so, I knew this was going to be a problem years ago when foveated rendering talks began. You can't just scale the resolution down on certain shader effects and think it won't be noticeable or distracting just because it's in your peripheral vision. This is probably a big part of why there hasn't been a push for it even though the hardware is capable of doing it with stuff like the Vive Pro with eye tracking.
 
D

Dane

Member
Resenge said:
Oh so it's just some dynamic res or shitty capcom textures? not..


Got ya. :messenger_smirking:
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It is outside of the center view that doesn't take the hit.

KuraiShidosha said:
Do you mean like specular bloom? Because if so, I knew this was going to be a problem years ago when foveated rendering talks began. You can't just scale the resolution down on certain shader effects and think it won't be noticeable or distracting just because it's in your peripheral vision. This is probably a big part of why there hasn't been a push for it even though the hardware is capable of doing it with stuff like the Vive Pro with eye tracking.
Click to expand...
Yes, the light reflections are awful, and even the spot looks much lower res and he noticed that in many places. Here's the scene from a gameplay.



He also noticed wobbling effect.



He said pancake glasses would be better at the cost of HDR because lots of these issues wouldn't be present.
 
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Foilz

Foilz

Member
Every new device regardless of what it is always "kills" the previous ones. With that said psvr2 has built up on it's platform and has had time to take in the advances of the other manufacturers. Meta ,pico and the others will then do the same and it will be an endless cycle of "barrowing". When psvr2 has the expansive library that quest and pcvr has then you can say it has killed them. If anything quest 2 is still king of VR for having the quest store, side quest store, applab store and access to steam.

I do love the gasket and head band on the psvr2. The quest 2 elite strap with battery is great but 1 button is better than turning a knob. Also the ipd adjustments are.much easier on pcvr2
 
Resenge

Resenge

Member
Dane said:
It is outside of the center view that doesn't take the hit.


Yes, the light reflections are awful, and even the spot looks much lower res and he noticed that in many places. Here's the scene from a gameplay.



He also noticed wobbling effect.



He said pancake glasses would be better at the cost of HDR because lots of these issues wouldn't be present.
Click to expand...

Oh I did see that shimmer now that you showed me the video but I guess it didn't bother me. You don't ever get a crisp clean image comparible to a flat screen in VR, I have seen some really bad shimmer in some PCVR, Quest and PSVR1 games, most of the time the experience of the game outweighs the graphics for me, just like using a handheld gaming device over a PC for example. I accept the hit in quality for the experience. I guess companies and influencers should be a little more honest in that fact tbh.

I wonder how the PSVR2 Foveated rendering works when it can not track an eye like in the video. You have to remember that what you're seeing in that video is not what you see in the game, only the point where your eye is looking has the best rendering, most of that video screen is trash graphics for peripheral vision which you do not ever see.
 
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Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Member
Gamer_By_Proxy said:
This guy sure does know how to trigger the Master<of shitty ports>Race.
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Warriors referring to anything PC as the “PC master race” is as cringe as the actual PC peoples using the term

No Way Reaction GIF


There’s no shit ports on PCVR since they’re native there as well so yeah… cringe.
 
rofif

rofif

Member
Dane said:
A friend who is all hyped for VR got a PSVR2 and returned because the Mura effect is awful at darker places like RE Village wihch also has massive resolution hit out of the Foveated rendering view, very small sweet spot, and couldn't even get rid of nauseas after days using it, SadlyItsBradley also had the same issues and said it never happened with other VRs.

For 550 dollars you expect to be one the best tethering VR in the market and instead you get cheap solutions akin to much lower priced models in the market, this friend was all hyped for this technology for years and said that sounds more like Sony was profiting well per unit instead of doing something similar to consoles where the bulk of the profit is at the game sales, it doesn't justify the price tag.
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This is the unfortunate truth
 
dotnotbot

dotnotbot

Member
Mura effect was a big problem with PSVR1 as well, I was wondering if higher resolution will somehow make it less obvious but looks like it's unavoidable with OLED.
 
Minsc

Minsc

Member
I definitely don't have the FR problem others are describing, maybe the eye tracking isn't working correctly? I guess I also don't try and go looking for those things when playing.

I do notice the mura effect in the grays, but other than that it's invisible to me (so like 90% of the time it's not there). And even in the greys it's not terrible, but just definitely noticeable, but not to the point it significantly effects the game.

I also had no problem gaining my "VR legs" on the device in ~4 sessions. I can play any game now fine (RE8, GT7, Horizon) with no nausea.
 
rodrigolfp

rodrigolfp

Gamepads 4 Life
Buggy Loop said:
Warriors referring to anything PC as the “PC master race” is as cringe as the actual PC peoples using the term

No Way Reaction GIF


There’s no shit ports on PCVR since they’re native there as well so yeah… cringe.
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Plus almost all shit ports are still far better experiences than the best console version.
 
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Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Member
Dane said:
A friend who is all hyped for VR got a PSVR2 and returned because the Mura effect is awful at darker places like RE Village wihch also has massive resolution hit out of the Foveated rendering view, very small sweet spot, and couldn't even get rid of nauseas after days using it, SadlyItsBradley also had the same issues and said it never happened with other VRs.

For 550 dollars you expect to be one the best tethering VR in the market and instead you get cheap solutions akin to much lower priced models in the market, this friend was all hyped for this technology for years and said that sounds more like Sony was profiting well per unit instead of doing something similar to consoles where the bulk of the profit is at the game sales, it doesn't justify the price tag.
Click to expand...

Your friend probably has poor nausea tolerance with high persistence (high persistance is bad).



I don't know what's going on here, if its on a game basis, RE8 and Horizon apparently seeing more blur when even moving the headset, but its not good.

What's puzzling too engineering wise is the weight of it. It weights more than a Quest 2 with standalone hardware with more complex mainboard, battery & heatsink.

Confusion Reaction GIF


The headset is full of compromises for 2023. Sony would say tomorrow that it supports the headset for PCVR and i wouldn't even buy it, not at the dawn of the wave of pancake lens headsets coming. I'm not buying a Fresnel lens headset again. Been seeing through Fresnel lenses since the SDK1, tested many headsets. I want to move on.

Only thing it got for it is eye tracking, but for actual gameplay mechanics, not so much for actual rendering improvements. I think that's why you don't see it on PC as of now even for headsets that support it like Quest Pro. It doesn't seem worth it. Like i showed earlier in the thread, a PC with a 2070 super with modded RE8 (not even official support) at medium settings wipes the floor with the PSVR 2 official implementation, without foveated rendering. Its inevitable that we go for eye tracking foveated rendering, but there must be a reason why Oculus has been sitting on the tech for 7 years or so since Michael Abrash talked about it. Their latest update on it was with AI assisted foveated, i guess to hide the shimmers and artifacts that just dropping resolution would create. But that adds latency and we don't want that in VR, so maybe chipsets just aren't ready.
 
F

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Buggy Loop said:
Look at RE8 modded.
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While I'm sure mods have gotten better since - my experience with VR mods in the 2017 era has been that not a single one of them was worth my time.
Like most of them would barely even qualify for 'VR' - as things were usually just broken, scaled/rendered wrong, and a ton of other issues. And yes - it was usually the highly praised mods with those issues too.
Now that aside - my point was about the hw-grunt to run those things at peak of display capabilities (and ideally at good game-settings for visual fidelity also) - not just 'getting it to run'. It's been a few years since I got rid of my PCVR, but back when I last used it, 2080ti was decidedly not enough to max-out the Vive-Cosmos headset (which was pretty high-res back then - it's not up to PSVR2 standards - but still), in any more demanding game. So I expect it would buckle when running RE8 under those conditions as well.
Though I guess it's possible mods actually do more interesting optimizations than retail software did to even that out - they have less to worry about with hw cross compatibility, so might as well.

poppabk said:
The PC VR software situation is very good even before the universal UE4 mod comes put that will bring VR to stuff like Hogwarts Legacy.
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To be clear - I wasn't comparing PCVR to PSVR2 - but to Quest. That said - your list is a whole lot better argument than 'PCVR for Alyx' indeed.

hlm666 said:
I wish people who make these statements had at least tried pcvr sims, if your into cockpit games and gt7 is blowing your mind you've been missing out for 5+ years on that experience.
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I've been playing PCVR mostly with sims back when I still had one. But I'm not sure what this reply was even about - I never compared GT7 to anything in this thread?
My statement was about steep PCVR requirements to run at near optimal IQ. Which isn't debatable - for a PSVR2 screen-spec headset - you end up needing around 6k+ render target for two eyes combined, with 90+ hz refresh - it isn't exactly hw friendly.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Dane said:
It is outside of the center view that doesn't take the hit.


Yes, the light reflections are awful, and even the spot looks much lower res and he noticed that in many places. Here's the scene from a gameplay.



He also noticed wobbling effect.



He said pancake glasses would be better at the cost of HDR because lots of these issues wouldn't be present.
Click to expand...


There's no right answer about that right now. It's all about tradeoffs. Pancake lens also wouldn't work with an OLED screen as well either. It's not just about the HDR.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Buggy Loop said:
What's puzzling too engineering wise is the weight of it. It weights more than a Quest 2 with standalone hardware with more complex mainboard, battery & heatsink.
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I was wondering about that. Maybe they are including the cord? If you hold it rolled up in hand, it's over 100 grams easy. Maybe I shold bring it to work and put it on a scale?
 
Buggy Loop

Buggy Loop

Member
Crayon said:
I was wondering about that. Maybe they are including the cord? If you hold it rolled up in hand, it's over 100 grams easy. Maybe I shold bring it to work and put it on a scale?
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Sure, you would already be providing more data than the official specs
 
F

Feel Like I'm On 42

Member
Kupfer said:
I will not pay the slightest attention to this click bait attempt nor will I give this guy a minute of watchtime or a click.
The PSVR2 is a good device for what it is.
The future will be decided by the software, which is more versatile on the PC for now.
[version.

This guy is one of the most annoying youtubers out there...click bait and stupid faces
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James Sawyer Ford

James Sawyer Ford

Member
Buggy Loop said:
Your friend probably has poor nausea tolerance with high persistence (high persistance is bad).



I don't know what's going on here, if its on a game basis, RE8 and Horizon apparently seeing more blur when even moving the headset, but its not good.

What's puzzling too engineering wise is the weight of it. It weights more than a Quest 2 with standalone hardware with more complex mainboard, battery & heatsink.

Confusion Reaction GIF


The headset is full of compromises for 2023. Sony would say tomorrow that it supports the headset for PCVR and i wouldn't even buy it, not at the dawn of the wave of pancake lens headsets coming. I'm not buying a Fresnel lens headset again. Been seeing through Fresnel lenses since the SDK1, tested many headsets. I want to move on.

Only thing it got for it is eye tracking, but for actual gameplay mechanics, not so much for actual rendering improvements. I think that's why you don't see it on PC as of now even for headsets that support it like Quest Pro. It doesn't seem worth it. Like i showed earlier in the thread, a PC with a 2070 super with modded RE8 (not even official support) at medium settings wipes the floor with the PSVR 2 official implementation, without foveated rendering. Its inevitable that we go for eye tracking foveated rendering, but there must be a reason why Oculus has been sitting on the tech for 7 years or so since Michael Abrash talked about it. Their latest update on it was with AI assisted foveated, i guess to hide the shimmers and artifacts that just dropping resolution would create. But that adds latency and we don't want that in VR, so maybe chipsets just aren't ready.
Click to expand...


What a load of FUD and disinformation. Congrats on a terrrible take full of inaccuracies.
 
S

Satansblade

Member
Tams said:
This might come as shocking news to you... but you don't have to buy anything from there.

If you're into projecting your problems, there's the other place you can do so. They'll probably ban you though.
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Not to mention 70$ for a specialist tool is nothing. This sounds like the whining of people who buy 20$ screwdriver sets and think they are just as good as specialized devices like this, or those Snap-On makes. It’s pure ignorance. The LTT screwdriver is, unironically worth every penny if you do a lot of tech work. The rare earth magnets to hold screws alone make it one of the top tech tools.
 
Tams

Tams

Member
Satansblade said:
Not to mention 70$ for a specialist tool is nothing. This sounds like the whining of people who buy 20$ screwdriver sets and think they are just as good as specialized devices like this, or those Snap-On makes. It’s pure ignorance. The LTT screwdriver is, unironically worth every penny if you do a lot of tech work. The rare earth magnets to hold screws alone make it one of the top tech tools.
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Absolutely. It seems to be a rather strong opinion on gaming forums that everything should be cheap and that people are entitled to that. Well, unless it's a GPU, but even then there are people saying shit like those GPUs shouldn't exist (rather just saying that they aren't for them).

I've seen a couple of YouTube video titles that say the LTT screwdriver breaks, but with the world of clickbait we live in, I'm not going to give them views for that. If I end up considering a new professional screwdriver... well there are better places to get opinions that some YouTuber (and yes, that also applies to most of the LTT videos for tech - at least until they get Labs up and running with a dedicated website).
 
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