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[thuway]

@Thuway: Do you have any guesses as to what percentage of GPU processing power would be sequestered for non-gaming functionality (at all times) akin to Xbone's 10%?

I don't know numbers, no one will share that with you. The best insiders won't get official RAM numbers either.

 

[purnoman3000]

No, I meant the amount of RAM used for OS.

Wait, a sec, the 1GB for OS was never confirmed, right? It was based on speculation and leaks, yes?

The whole "7 gigs is available to devs", I don't remember that coming from somebody at Sony. I could be wrong.

All I know is Infamous: SS and other games look utterly fantastic and will continue to improve over time just like any generation. That is the only truth that I can discern from all this overly dramatized thread.


.

 

[Takuya]

This is an obvious oversimplification of the Xbox's memory architecture. What PS4 offers is still superior, but you don't have to sell the Xbox short to make yourself feel better.

I am not selling anything short. You want me to clarify?

Xbone's 5GB (slower)- 32mb of slightly faster RAM?

 

[Lulubop]

What a console warzone this has become. Though you see the same posters who got on MS's case for the 3 GB OS, vehemently defended Sony. While the other side is delusional that this puts the Xbone on more of a equally footing despite reality.

Popcorn indeed.

 

[i-Lo]

I don't know numbers, no one will share that with you. The best insiders won't get official RAM numbers either.

Aye, thanks.

 

[szaromir]

People were also upset that Microsoft made the unoptimal decision of going with DDR3/ES RAM as a configuration instead of forking out the proper money (which they have in spades) for GDDR5 and a more powerful GPU.

It is no narrative. The Xbox One was designed as a media device, the component choices reflect it.

It is a narrative. Microsoft's hardware choices were a result of assuming GDDR5 in high volumes would not be feasible at the end of 2013, that's why they went with their memory setup. Sony's approach turned out to be smarter, giving them higher performance for the same (if not less) buck, but Microsoft didn't design the hardware in order to screw the gamer.

 

[rjinaz]

Dunno, at times it feels like they deliberately try to throw in some wrong information to create some sort of narrative. I mean, telling gaffers that MS paid publishers to not mention PS4 versions of their games is going to make people have negative sentiments going into the E3 conference. Perhaps I'm a bit paranoid over this.

I also think gaming companies should be allowed to make announcements at their own pace, even if some of their employees have loose tongues.

Hmm, you may be right, I'm sure some try do that. But then, it seems to me that the mods and the community at large keep a very close eye on those that claim they are insiders and what they say. I cannot imagine it is something that they would get away with long. I believe critical thinking is always important, especially in the case of supposed insiders, but it does not mean that everything said is false (nor true obviously).

I cannot disagree with your second point either. I guess it comes down to perspective. If I was in management for one of these companies, I would be upset, as I imagine most would be. But alas, I am not, and I do enjoy knowing things before others. So, despite the ethical reservation I may have, I enjoy reading them. It is what it is, people can either believe what is said or not I guess. The ones that do are a minority in the greater overall picture of the gaming industry.

 

[D-Dott]

Sweet, thread slowed down for a bit but now it's getting good again.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Microsoft's box was an abomination when it came to gaming in my eyes, especially with their original policies. I'm not getting a One period, but when I see something Sony does that stinks, I'm not going to give them the okey doke.

They didn't do anything bad though. It's like your trying to justify a reason to be mad as if someone promised you something. Give me a link that confirmed anything about the PS4 OS system before this?

Oh right, there is none because it was never confirmed.

You listened to all the Mr. Knowitalls and since they've beaten you down so much and you believed it, now you want to make it seem like it's sony's fault for them making up stuff. Seriously, I hope you were this mad at all the flip flopping MS was never straight forward about either because IMO that is something to be more mad about than an unconfirmed rumor.

Seriously. MS went from

Not always on -to- Always on -TO- Not always on
Doesn't blocked used games -to- Does blocked used games to a limit -TO- Doesn't block used games
Family share plan -to- No family share plan -TO- Family share (maybe) but not the way it originally sounded
No DRM -to- DRM -TO- No DRM
No self publishing indies -to- Self publishing indies ....The only un-flip flop thing.

Sony on the other hand

Not always on -to- Not always on
Doesn't block used games (even when rumored to have it) -to- Doesn't block used games
No DRM -to- No DRM
Self Publishing Indies -to- Self publishing indies

Sony never had to refute any claims. They have all been confirmed and said straight forward. This is a whole different situation as, they haven't even talked about it at all. They didn't even hint on it either.

 

[Sianos]

It is a narrative. Microsoft's hardware choices were a result of assuming GDDR5 in high volumes would not be feasible at the end of 2013, that's why they went with their memory setup. Sony's approach turned out to be smarter, giving them higher performance for the same (if not less) buck, but Microsoft didn't design the hardware in order to screw the gamer.

Is there a code in the bolded words? WHAT ARE YOUR SECRETS???

 

[Takuya]

It is a narrative. Microsoft's hardware choices were a result of assuming GDDR5 in high volumes would not be feasible at the end of 2013, that's why they went with their memory setup. Sony's approach turned out to be smarter, giving them higher performance for the same (if not less) buck, but Microsoft didn't design the hardware in order to screw the gamer.

RAM is only a small part of the equation, it isn't the only edge Sony has over the Bone.

 

[I2amza]

It is a narrative. Microsoft's hardware choices were a result of assuming GDDR5 in high volumes would not be feasible at the end of 2013, that's why they went with their memory setup. Sony's approach turned out to be smarter, giving them higher performance for the same (if not less) buck, but Microsoft didn't design the hardware in order to screw the gamer.

You are both making assumptions as to why MS went the route they did.

 

[theviolenthero]

There is zero advantage, NADA, zilch that Xbox One has over PS4. One machine is clearly more powerful than the other.

I hear people say this but no one ever states what the difference in power will translate too.
I know it will affect exclusive games built from the ground up but what about multi-plats?

For instance, what advantages will Watchdogs & Assassins Creed IV on the PS4 have over the Xbox One versions? If, for instance, a XB1 game is native 1080p/60fps what enhancements will i see in the PS4 version of that game?
Will we see a XB1 game be 30fps/720p native & the same game on the PS4 run 60fps/1080p native thanks to the extra power?

 

[shinra-bansho]

The Wii U might tank, but Sony is betting on Gaikai, cloud gaming, and remote play to push the Vita which is tanking worse than the Wii U. I own a Vita, and I love it, but this is a feature many of us will grow to love if its properly implemented.

I thought the whole point of cloud gaming was that it wasn't meant to be intensive on local resources, since it's simply streaming a video feed and transmitting inputs.

As for remote play, it isn't going to save the PSV; no one is buying a $250 accessory for the PS4 and hopefully Sony aren't stupid enough to think that's a solution to the PSV problem. People mistake something they enjoy with something the market will embrace. There is simply no market for a high end dedicated handheld in Western markets.

 

[kingkitty]

If rumors are true, with one giggity ram in reserve for games...I mean...obviously that ram will be added to the existing amount, Sony wouldn't just hold on to it forever.

So really it might be...what, 4.5, 5.5, 6.5? At the very least, more than the ram amount for the OS. Because if the OS is given more ram than the games, or even an equal amount...lol. But I guess we just don't know.

PERHAPS WE'LL NEVER KNOW!

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

The situation between Call of Duty Black Ops 2 on PS3 versus Xbox 360 will be the norm next generation.

Xbox One will perform like the PS3 version, lower resolution, worse performance.
PS4 will perform like the 360 version, definitive console experience.

I dont think it will be anything like that. The majority of games are pretty much identical for 95% of gamers, and there was only very negligible differences that people of who read DF care about. Only in the first two years did PS3 multi platform games really suffer. After that most games, outside of some UE3 powered games, are nearly identical on both platforms(look at all EAs releases. NFS, Dead Space, ect) Also theres a handful of AAA multiplatform games that perform better on PS3(ex. See BS: Infinite, Tomb Raider, ect).

What you should see with PS4/Xbone, unless devs purposely hamper PS4, is every multiplatform game should have an advantage on PS4. I admit some games the differences and the gap will be more significant than others. There should never ever be multiplatform game were XBone has the advantage when it comes to performance(this excludes features brought with Kinect). This make it much different than PS3/360, and makes it more comparable to PS2/Xbox.

 

[strata8]

You are both making assumptions as to why MS went the route they did.

It certainly wasn't because it was cheaper.

 

[Ishan]

I got it. I currently do this with my computer now. So its basically a partition within a partition to use for other stuff. So in actuality, the X1 has 1 solid OS for gaming purposes but has an additional partition that is split into 2 which essentially isn't 3 but since they are running different "Kernels" (not sure if that's the term) it would make them 3 because they require a different type of access?

Yup . A better way of thinking is the hypervizer is like the bios setup which runs when you boot up . It's the common thing behind everything. Then then there are two virtual machines are partitions one whih runs os app related stuff . Other for games . The key difference in pc partitions for dual operating systems use the same ram processor but divide up the hard disk. Here the virtual machines are dividing up the ram processor but sharing the same hardisk.

I'm no expert in the field myself.

My expertise lies in programming languages and algorithms but I do understand os stuff somewhat . Hope it helped.

EDIT should stop posting now starting to pregame to go to the bars so my explanations will probably get super esoteric after this lol

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Thats very debatable. Only time will tell, we wont know for sure until 4 years from now. The main reason why I would suggest the difference is bigger than either of those because the architecture is directly comparable now. The GPU/CPUs are 90% the same from an architecture point of view. There much more comparable now, its apples to apples. This means any difference in raw power should make much more of an impact this time around and should be more apparent.

Right at launch, the Xbox offered 480p in most games, DD 5.1 sound, better textures in some multiplats, and custom soundtracks.

Right now devs are aiming for feature and graphical parity for games that are planned through at least next summer. The difference between launch exclusives is negligible, and MS oddly has more 60 fps games in the pipeline. If MS offered a Kinect-less sku right now, it would be difficult to argue that the PS4 was a significantly better value to the average consumer, despite what we know about the innards.

 

[Kenshin001]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

 

[Skull Leader]

Microsoft's box was an abomination when it came to gaming in my eyes, especially with their original policies. I'm not getting a One period, but when I see something Sony does that stinks, I'm not going to give them the okey doke.

Well, its a good thing you're as uninformed as the rest of us, so you can boil down your concept concept of 'what stinks' here to "NUMBARZ R NOT WAT I THOTGHT TEYH WUL BEEEEE???!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!1111" Jesus the CHRIST, GAF, is this sort of shitsplosion common around here?

What a console warzone this has become. Though you see the same posters who got on MS's case for the 3 GB OS, vehemently defended Sony. While the other side is delusional that this puts the Xbone on more of a equally footing despite reality.

Popcorn indeed.

Oh come on. 99.99 percent of the people bitching about the memory situation for both the PS4 AND the Xbone have no idea WHAT it is they are actually bitching about. I have seen some frankly ASTONISHING descriptions of nightmare scenarios, some really (not) convincing concern trolling that people should be embarrassed to even be posting, about how "terrible" this situation is.

Do some of these asshats honestly believe that in the year of our space ghost 2013 neither MS or Sony have it in them to optimize their OS performance and make more efficient use of literally the most memory dedicated consoles have ever seen, in any generation of consoles? You know, kinda like what they did do (or at least tried to do) on many occasions over the course of the previous generation?

 

[D-Dott]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

Sham? Wow.

 

[TheD]

I just saw this being linked from reddit:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=73022081&postcount=2780

And, this guy makes a good point.

That guy clearly does not know much about FreeBSD.
The FreeBSD kernel is only a few MB in size, it is the userland that takes up most of the space, so the PS4's OS size depends on how large the PS4's userland is.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

I can't tell anymore if people are being serious or not with some of these comments.

 

[szaromir]

Is there a code in the bolded words? WHAT ARE YOUR SECRETS???

Nothing, I was poking fun at thuway's random ass bolding parts of his messages.

RAM is only a small part of the equation, it isn't the only edge Sony has over the Bone.

EDRAM forced MS to make the GPU weaker, otherwise the APU would be ginormous. It's tied together, and yes Sony made the better choice, but there was nothing malicious or against gaming behind MS's design.

You are both making assumptions as to why MS went the route they did.

Eh, both companies have explained their design choices extensively.

 

[Cidd]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

 

[teh_pwn]

Damn. So much for RAM cache standard game engine design.

3.5 GiB for an OS that should be lean in the Unix family...eh that seems lazy.

I'll bitch endlessly if the majority of this is for something like video ads. ENDLESSLY.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I can't tell anymore if people are being serious or not with some of these comments.

I've had enough of dealing with idiocy like that.

This is almost a non issue right now with games not using all the memory to the potential.

You can't have legitimate conversation with certain types of posts.

 

[spwolf]

Right at launch, the Xbox offered 480p in most games, DD 5.1 sound, better textures in some multiplats, and custom soundtracks.

Right now devs are aiming for feature and graphical parity for games that are planned through at least next summer. The difference between launch exclusives is negligible, and MS oddly has more 60 fps games in the pipeline. If MS offered a Kinect-less sku right now, it would be difficult to argue that the PS4 was a significantly better value to the average consumer, despite what we know about the innards.

how is that? It was never easier to argue about consoles than today... very similar tech, one has faster hardware, other one has slower hardware.

And besides, MS doesnt have kinect-less SKU, so we dont know how much would have cost.... so reality is, one has faster hardware and is $100 cheaper.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

hahaohwow.jpg

 

[thuway]

I hear people say this but no one ever states what the difference in power will translate too.
I know it will affect exclusive games built from the ground up but what about multi-plats?

For instance, what advantages will Watchdogs & Assassins Creed IV on the PS4 have over the Xbox One versions? If, for instance, a XB1 game is native 1080p/60fps what enhancements will i see in the PS4 version of that game?
Will we see a XB1 game be 30fps/720p native & the same game on the PS4 run 60fps/1080p native thanks to the extra power?

Until the games come out, no one can say anything for certain. The easiest thing I can tell you is to compare a 7850 and a 7770 graphic card from AMD. If you are too lazy I can give you random benchmarks in text:

Crysis 2:
Xbox One (7770) - 23 fps
PS4 (7850) - 40 fps

Batman Arkham City
Xbox One (7770) - 36 fps
PS4 (7850) - 62 FPS

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7850-vs-Radeon-HD-7770#performance

This is highly unscientific, but these are rough estimates of power differences based on teraflops alone.

 

[Daingurse]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

With all that GDDR5 being dedicated to the system, well I don't think this will be an issue. lol

 

[lowhighkang_LHK]

I don't understand why people find this hard to believe.

Xbox One requires 3 GB for their OS.

Sony requires apparently 2.5 GB to 3.5 GB for their OS.

The world is still spinning folks, PS4 still will produce the better looking games. Keep calm and stay Cerny folks.

 

[teh_pwn]

I don't understand why people find this hard to believe.

Xbox One requires 3 GB for their OS.

Sony requires apparently 2.5 GB to 3.5 GB for their OS.

The world is still spinning folks, PS4 still will produce the better looking games. Keep calm and stay Cerny folks.

Xbox One has dedication for their wavy waggle.

PS4 is using 3.5 GB is worse because it's not a general purpose OS. Windows 8 has a much smaller footprint, and Linux way lower than that.

I can only conclude that Sony is being sloppy or reserving space for advertising. PC primary is looking more likely for me.

If it's for that damn share video feature, I hope I can disable it and instead cache game assets. Way more important to me.

 

[CambriaRising]

It's almost like there was so much good news that this one bad (in some crazy people's eyes) thing has to be trumpeted to the hills.

 

[Anpanman]

Until the games come out, no one can say anything for certain.

Didn't you just get done saying this...

The situation between Call of Duty Black Ops 2 on PS3 versus Xbox 360 will be the norm next generation.

Your posts are starting to read more and more like Sony shilling.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Xbox One has dedication for their wavy waggle.

PS4 is using 3.5 GB is worse because it's not a general purpose OS. Windows 8 has a much smaller footprint, and Linux way lower than that.

I can only conclude that Sony is being sloppy or reserving space for advertising. PC primary is looking more likely for me.

If it's for that damn share video feature, I hope I can disable it and instead cache game assets. Way more important to me.

This isn't true. And keep in mind, this is a potential launch allocation of memory. Something which even devs have no issue with.

 

[strata8]

Until the games come out, no one can say anything for certain. The easiest thing I can tell you is to compare a 7850 and a 7770 graphic card from AMD. If you are too lazy I can give you random benchmarks in text:

Crysis 2:
Xbox One (7770) - 23 fps
PS4 (7850) - 40 fps

Batman Arkham City
Xbox One (7770) - 36 fps
PS4 (7850) - 62 FPS

http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-HD-7850-vs-Radeon-HD-7770#performance

This is highly unscientific, but these are rough estimates of power differences based on teraflops alone.

GPUBoss is a very bad comparison tool. Try and find benchmarks from the same site, and make sure you don't use high resolutions as the 7770 is bottlenecked by its VRAM.

 

[thuway]

Didn't you just get done saying this...

He asked for specifics, I was giving my opinion on what port differences could be. No one can say anything for certain. I posted a link above to similar GPUs in both PS4 and Xbox One to give you an idea of how large a performance difference can be on pure power alone.

With that said, I'm off.

 

[MrCookiepants]

I don't get why people are so up in arms about this. The PS4 is still more powerful, right? You still have your bragging rights. So what's the big deal?

Aren't all the launch window titles running on 4 GB anyway? Nothing's changed...

 

[RoboPlato]

I don't understand why people find this hard to believe.

Xbox One requires 3 GB for their OS.

Sony requires apparently 2.5 GB to 3.5 GB for their OS.

The world is still spinning folks, PS4 still will produce the better looking games. Keep calm and stay Cerny folks.

People are just kind of disappointed that the capabilities are being held back by just an OS. As someone who doesn't care about excess OS features and am a bang for your buck buyer it's a little frustrating. Not a big deal given that the PS4 is still more powerful, cheaper, and this is due to being overcautious in expanded features later on but it's still a bit disappointing.

 

[Kenshin001]

With all that GDDR5 being dedicated to the system, well I don't think this will be an issue. lol

Look at the PSN store. 7 years and it's still a clunky, jerky experience. They couldn't even get background installs done. Don't underestimate Sony when it comes to screwing something easy up.

 

[statham]

and thuway is back to is old self.

 

[thuway]

GPUBoss is a very bad comparison tool. Try and find benchmarks from the same site, and make sure you don't use high resolutions as the 7770 is bottlenecked by it's VRAM.

If you can do it for me, that would be great , but I'm just trying to illustrate that there is a significant power difference between the two machines that isn't some trivial 3 or 4 frames per game.

 

[D-Dott]

Your posts are starting to read more and more like Sony shilling.

lol, this whole shilling accusation thing is just wow.

 

[maquiladora]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

You should have said the OS will be slower and poorer than an Atari ST for extra sham impact.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Look at the PSN store. 7 years and it's still a clunky, jerky experience. They couldn't even get background installs done. Don't underestimate Sony when it comes to screwing something easy up.

This is true on PS3. PS4, whole new ball game.

PS3 store is designed for much better HW.

and thuway is back to is old self.

Not if you read his words right.

 

[Respawn]

Sony was trumpeting 8GB GDDR5 and how developers were happy with all that power.

Turns out it's a sham, Sony were being disingenuous and no doubt their OS will be a poor, slow version compared to MS.

The last thread was lunch and this has to be dessert. Lol so much more to be exposed. Stay tune folks

 

[Bunta]

Your posts are starting to read more and more like Sony shilling.

Loooooooool

 

[Anpanman]

He asked for specifics, I was giving my opinion on what port differences could be. No one can say anything for certain. I posted a link above to similar GPUs in both PS4 and Xbox One to give you an idea of how large a performance difference can be on pure power alone.

With that said, I'm off.

Benchmarks using off-the-shelf PC components are completely irrelevant in this scenario.