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Digimon Community Thread |OT| For all the Digidestined on GAF
- Thread starter Stuart444
- Start date
Paper Sparrow
Member
Frontier is a sequel?
Oh, you.
It does look Shutmon-ish.
I originally expected Dokamon to be the "Gabumon" like Gaomon, but it turns out he's more of a Leomon. Oujamon even has a "Fist of the Beast King" equivalent.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah my bad, as you can see I don't remember the appmon names
Also no, Frontier is a good but flawed show and is much, much better than say 02.
Also no, Frontier is a good but flawed show and is much, much better than say 02.
TMaakkonen
Member
Ok someone remind me about Frontier again, its been years since I watched it.
So why are we overrating it that much. I cant remember anything especially good about it. On the other hand, I remember Royal Knights Arc. The one good thing about that is its so bad its fascinating.
Its almost the worst thing about Digimon Anime ever. Maybe beaten by Astronaut Matt, some stuff from Young Hunters & Tris writing.
So why are we overrating it that much. I cant remember anything especially good about it. On the other hand, I remember Royal Knights Arc. The one good thing about that is its so bad its fascinating.
Its almost the worst thing about Digimon Anime ever. Maybe beaten by Astronaut Matt, some stuff from Young Hunters & Tris writing.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I used to think that until I rewatched it a couple of years ago. The Royal Knights stuff is awful, but the rest of the show is pretty good, and the middle portion in particular is especially great. The visual quality during those episodes especially is really strong, with the colors being utilized especially well. I really think the whole stretch from 20-36 or so is a genuinely amazing run of episodes. The Takuya/Kouji fight is in my mind one of the best looking sequences Digimon ever did. It's also got one of the best soundtracks of any season of Digimon, and the cast all really grew on me when I rewatched it.
And while the Royal Knights stuff is bad, once you get past that I think the last five episodes or so are genuinely great stuff.
Frontier has its warts, but its highs are up there with Adventure in my mind. It's main problem is just that it has some really bad lows mixed in.
Paper Sparrow
Member
It's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I think nostalgia is often in play, and the "kids turn into Digimon" is a hurdle that hurts it for sure. (Not to say that on rewatch everyone will like it, but it's definitely not awful enough to be compared to Young Hunters.)
The first and middle portion (before the Royal Knights) was actually really good. It's too bad it has such lows, because it makes it even harder to recommend.
TMaakkonen
Member
I just dont remember 1st and middle part being that good. So when everyone praises those parts, I just dont get it. They werent awful, but I think Id rather rate Frontier average rather than good. Maybe because Im blinded by nostalgia but ehh Appmon was decent. Maybe it is just taste?
Paper Sparrow
Member
Seeing it as average is better than seeing it as Young Hunters/Tri tier. It sits at the bottom of the good seasons list for me. I think what you're interpreting as overrating is less "It's the best!" and more "It's not that bad and has some good moments."
You can't help but root for the underdog, I guess. Especially when so many lists rank 02 higher.
Frontier's biggest fault for me was its insanely slow pace. I wanted evolutions, but the show just wouldn't deliver. Likewise, the individual villains just weren't interesting enough to me to warrant their long arcs. Then the royal knight arc happens, and the show turns into the Takuya and Koji show when they get one evolution after another while the remaining team mates remain in the shadows. Adventure 1 and 2 did that too, but they finally figured it out with Tamers just to go back to that flawed formula. Man, I really dislike Frontier. Let me watch Xros Wars instead if you want to torture me.
TMaakkonen
Member
The real underdog is 02. I see way more people hating that. I dont feel like its that bad. Then again, I usually agree on why its hated.
02 and Frontier are kind of on same level. Basically consistently-average-mediocre vs decent/ok-but-drops-hard is sometimes really hard to judge on.
At least I can almost say that Tri could easily be worse than either of them. Kind of shocking in hindsight, but at the same time, Im not too hurt on saying that about Tri. It deserves bad rep on that writing + animation. Although Tri has been bashed bit too much lately.
Paper Sparrow
Member
I hate how the rest of the cast got shafted. They were relegated to the useless Dragon Ball Z characters that just make comments on the sidelines. Imagine all of them making Susanoomon like a Megazord or something.
I also hate Izumi and was annoyed to see her Beast form, as well as the rivalry with Ranamon. If she wasn't the only female character, it probably wouldn't have bothered me so much.
02 is looked at a lot less favorably than it was a few years ago, but DigiGAF is a lot harsher than most. A few of the more vocal members like Boss Doggie, Kuwabara, myself, etc. dislike it. In other places, with larger communities, you'll see it viewed much more favorably, with most of the dislike directed at the epilogue.
The thing with 02 is it lacks character development, which, to me, is one of the most important things to have in Digimon. Ken is the only one with any depth and carries everything good about the season, to the detriment of everyone else. Daisuke, Miyako, and Iori are either badly written or boring. Hikari never gets the development she desperately needs and Takeru's weird outbursts are forgotten.
Frontier knows where it wants to go and what it wants to do with the characters. Mind you, where it goes isn't always good, but it's not as aimless as 02. 02 is just throwing things at the wall and letting it all drop to the floor.
unknownstranger
Member
I had a pretty favorable opinion on 02 but I never saw how it ended when I was a kid. I finally looked up the final episode like a decade later and I don't think the ending to any other show pissed me off as much as it did and I'm hoping Tri retcons the hell out of it (which it seems to be doing). I watched Savers for the first time a few years ago (only season ive watched subbed) and then immediately rewatched 01 to Frontier (dubbed). 02 was definitely the weakest of the bunch, even ignoring the ending. The thing with Frontier is the beginning to middle is actually pretty good. The cast is pretty strong and everyone gets their time to shine. I thought the brother plot was handled pretty well too. Once EmperorGreymon and MagnaGarurumon (who I have an irrational hate for because he's not symmetrical) show up though it turns to shit. The rest of the cast does basically nothing and the fights become really boring because they all end the same. Also Lucemon having the same voice as Izzy really bothered me.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Your opinions on both 02 and Frontier kind of mirror what mine were about three years ago...and then I rewatched them.
I remembered 02 being a decent show with a bad ending, but when I rewatched it I found that it was honestly never more than mediocre. The Kaiser arc is the high point, but even that is just kind of "okay" outside of 13 and 23, and the show goes to shit pretty much as soon as that's over with. (Honestly, as bad as the final cour can be, at least some stuff happens there; the Holy Stones arc is one of the low points in all of Digimon).
I think 02 is just something that gets worse every time I watch it, while I think Frontier gets better on a rewatch, especially with a more critical eye. I haven't done my Xros Wars rewatch yet, so I'll be interested to see in what direction I go on that one.
Izumi hate? How dare you!
She was honestly my favorite of the cast, although I found that I liked all of Frontier's cast when I rewatched it, even Tomoki.
Paper Sparrow
Member
I swear, the only thing people remember about that arc is how cool BlackWarGreymon was defeating HolyAngemon. In their defense, there's not much else to remember. Iori got his understated development during it, I guess.
Haha, yeah, hate may be a little strong, but she is among my least favorite Digimon characters. I have an aversion to "the girl character".
She was in control of her (humanoid) Beast form, because she was a girl. Ranamon was jealous of her beauty and they fought, because she was a girl. Etc., etc. It comes down to me disliking that sort of thing. Like I said, if there was another female character, it wouldn't have bothered me so much. I think I would hate Adventure Mimi if Sora wasn't there, for example.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
But I love 02 Davis and veemon are the greatest
Davis and veemon are the greatestKuwabaraTheMan
Banned
(Mimi's my personal favorite Digimon character, lol)
I think you're underselling Izumi's character. I feel like her main thing related more towards her growing up overseas and not knowing how to relate to people in Japan. A lot of her episodes were really focused around that, how she was excluded in school because people thought she was cold, and how she wound up becoming isolated from everyone. I actually think that's a topic that I'm really glad Digimon touched on at some point. Aside from the "Junpei has a one-sided crush on Izumi plotline" and some of the Ranamon stuff, I don't really think being the "girl" is really what defines Izumi (and the Ranamon stuff is fine for me because I love all of the amazing faces she makes during those episodes)
If there's one thing that I think Frontier got right, it's giving all of the characters some really well defined issues, and letting it flesh out who they were, why they were the sort of people who would look towards an escape to the Digital World to begin with, and showing how they got passed it during the series, from Takuya maturing and learning how to be more considerate of others, to Izumi learning how to open up more to people and not feel like she had to do everything on her own, to Tomoki becoming more self-reliant, etc.
But I love 02
Blackleg-sanji1
Goten Enthusiast
Paper Sparrow
Member
But I love 02
In little moments, Davis is fine, and I like his and Veemon's rapport. As a main leader character meant to carry big, emotional moments? Eh.
Thinking about it, he probably could have worked better as a non-leader in a more light-hearted season like Appmon.
Veemon and his evolutions are some of my favorites. If 02 did something that I like, it was showing the versatility of Digimon evolution. That didn't really return until Xros Wars.
I started to like Mimi more as time went on, if it helps.
She and Sora switched places at some point and she is a bright spot in Tri. Up to the princess episode though...I know there's more to Izumi than just being the girl (she's certainly not Smurfette level) and I found her backstory/development nice, but yeah, the crush/jealousy, Ranamon, her Beast design, just being "the girl" of the group grates on me.
I guess because when I was younger, I saw the girl character as the closest to "me" you know? And when the only girl is treated as different than the rest of the cast, it hits close to home. I just never got rid of that aversion.
It's why I was so sure I'd hate Eri. She avoids the usual traps a lot better though and it doesn't feel like she's ever singled out as different(except in that one ending -.-).
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Best group except tk meh
Paper Sparrow
Member
Best group except tk meh
How can it be best group when Yolei is worth -20?
I mean, Ken's worth +10, but it's not enough.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
How can it be best group when Yolei is worth -20?
I mean, Ken's worth +10, but it's not enough.
What is this slander. Yolei and hawkmon are treasures
Paper Sparrow
Member
I'll give you Hawkmon, dude's legit, but Halsemon can only carry the dead weight character of Yolei literally, he can't do it figuratively.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Halsemon is trash I will not defend him lol
Shurimon however is legit
Paper Sparrow
Member
Shurimon is good, but he shuri does not make Yolei better. (I'm sorry)
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
unknownstranger
Member
I cant allow you to come for yolei like this when this guy is on the same team
Name a non-Digimon outside of Savers that punched a villain.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
You win this round
Paper Sparrow
Member
Hmm hmm, 02 TK isn't great, but he does punch Ken and catch a whip. He is also cool to Ken towards the end of the season when he lets him take his place for a car ride home.
Yes, this person gets it.
Paper Sparrow
Member
So did Ken, hehehehe.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Overrating? No man, if you want overrated Digimon show that's either 02 or Tamers. Especially the former - it gets so much free pass for all its shit it has. From crappy characters to nonsensical villain plots. People only give it a go because of nostalgia and scalies (muh xvmon fladramon blackwargreymon).
Frontier is a flawed show, but far from the shit that is Young Hunters or 02. It had a really good premise, the cast is actually likeable, they actually stuck with their gimmick (unlike some series, *cough 02 and Tamers cough*), and had really good beginning and arguably finale arcs. It's just that the Royal Knights arc is really bad and it amplified the bad stuff Digimon has - making the hero and rival stand out much more.
TMaakkonen
Member
Watching Tamers first time after hearing so much praise, I was baffled that it actually has gimmick. The card boost mechanic. Its major enough to create Guilmon with Wings. And then its dropped until like last few episodes. Tamers still had great writing, but very few people mention the card gimmick. So yes it is slightly overrated as well.
Even Adventure had one flaw when I re-watched that. Some scenes had that weird anime thing, where scene repeats 3 times in row. No other series did that and it was tacky as shit. Mimi was also meh in original, which to Tris one of only good credits, fixed her.
Man, Im now starting to remember Frontier cast being better than I remembered. And then they literally make them sit in sidelines. Even the new character took a backseat. Now Royal Knights arc are even worse in retrospect.
Poor 02 partner lines, getting shafted so often. The first 3 seasons had great partner lines, but I feel like they dont get much love. Hell, they are probably why I tolerate 02 that much. Because of Ultimates requiring fusions, Cyber Sleuth and World games force evolution gimmicks on them. Greymon can become MetalGreymon and Growmon can become WarGrowmon no problem, but ExVeemon needs a partner or facility to evolve. Just make him evolve normally dammit. And then Hawkmon->Valkyrimon will probably not be proper line because 02 cast wont get Megas ever in anime and Armadimon will get his Mega MAYBE in 20 years. Also, Armor forms being dead ends is meh.
Oh, but Holy Stones arc doesnt seem to be as bad as Royal Knights arc. 5 eps compared to 9 eps. Also, there was that weird nice moment where Agumon wanted to talk to BlackWargreymon and he didnt want to just kill. Not to mention the end blue balling wasnt as bad as in Royal Knights where the final boss just one-shot them at the end.
Even Adventure had one flaw when I re-watched that. Some scenes had that weird anime thing, where scene repeats 3 times in row. No other series did that and it was tacky as shit. Mimi was also meh in original, which to Tris one of only good credits, fixed her.
Man, Im now starting to remember Frontier cast being better than I remembered. And then they literally make them sit in sidelines. Even the new character took a backseat. Now Royal Knights arc are even worse in retrospect.
Poor 02 partner lines, getting shafted so often. The first 3 seasons had great partner lines, but I feel like they dont get much love. Hell, they are probably why I tolerate 02 that much. Because of Ultimates requiring fusions, Cyber Sleuth and World games force evolution gimmicks on them. Greymon can become MetalGreymon and Growmon can become WarGrowmon no problem, but ExVeemon needs a partner or facility to evolve. Just make him evolve normally dammit. And then Hawkmon->Valkyrimon will probably not be proper line because 02 cast wont get Megas ever in anime and Armadimon will get his Mega MAYBE in 20 years. Also, Armor forms being dead ends is meh.
Oh, but Holy Stones arc doesnt seem to be as bad as Royal Knights arc. 5 eps compared to 9 eps. Also, there was that weird nice moment where Agumon wanted to talk to BlackWargreymon and he didnt want to just kill. Not to mention the end blue balling wasnt as bad as in Royal Knights where the final boss just one-shot them at the end.
unknownstranger
Member
I was ok with Lucemon killing the two Royal Knights. Would it had been better if EmperorGreymon and MagnaGarurumon killed them? Eh I guess. I was satisfied to see them go out pathetically though.
Paper Sparrow
Member
I can't ever hate Tamers, because it had so much thought put into it. Each character get as much development as Ken, except none of the main cast is shafted. Some of the weakest parts of the season, like the dropped card gimmick and Ryo, can be explained by executives wanting to push different parts of the franchise.
Not to say it's perfect (Ryo!!!!), and some things are up to preference, but it has a tendency to be overrated for a reason.
I do love the Digimon in 02 and wish armor evolution was used more often. However, I like that their Perfect forms are always tied to jogress evolution. I know that it's supposed to be their natural next stage, but Paildramon and Silphymon look like they are a combination of two Digimon. I like the design consistency, I guess? (Even though Digimon doesn't usually stick so strongly to that philosophy.) Shakkoumon is lame, but I would like a different evolution than Vikemon someday.
The Holy Stones wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't preceded and followed by equally throwaway arcs. So much stuff: BlackWarGreymon, Demon, Dark Ocean, World Tour, etc. could be cut out of 02 and it would change nothing in the main plot. They just spin their wheels from the midpoint to the end, with tiny snippets of actual development here and there.
No new Appmon tonight
TMaakkonen
Member
Honestly too different just means it will be less likely be used in normal evolution games. Frontier and Xros Wars are so screwed in this regard and Cyber Sleuth added wopping 3 armor Digimon, at which point why bother. Hacker's Memory might not add any more at this point. They are too loyal to accuracy lol
Flamedramon could maybe evolve in games if he was champion.
Shakkoumon is cool and neat design... while it is also unfitting to be in Armadimon line...
Paper Sparrow
Member
I think if they gave armor evolution an incentive, it could work better. Like if you get a super powerful move through leveling up. Flamedramon sort of had a good move, but I think giving an even better, unique (maybe exclusive?) move to them would make it interesting. It would also make for some creative evolving/devolving to get a certain Digimon with that powerful move.
For the World games, armor evolution could work as a power-up for Child levels in battle (of course, you'd need to open them up for use to more Digimon). It could make the "my Ultimate died, now I need to use Child Digimon" loop more tolerable.
I just think they could put some more thought into it. You can keep it unique while still making it useful.
TropicalFish
Member
I'm kinda obsessed with Digimon Linkz
unknownstranger
Member
In Next Order they treated OmniShoutmon (who's similar) as a Champion level Digimon. Actually didn't work out that bad because you have a higher level evolution with it he gets a lot more stat increases. My final team before I stopped playing was OmniShoutmon and Diaboromon and they had nearly the same stats.
TMaakkonen
Member
You do realise that in PS4 version they also had Mega versions of OmegaShoutmon and Arresterdramon? Yeah, they had more moves and stronger finisher. Also they still kept Champion versions of them in the game. So game had champion and mega form of same Digimons.
Lore-wise OmegaShoutmon has powers of Omegamon, so him being champion fet wrong.
unknownstranger
Member
Weird. Didn't think there was another way to get OmniShoutmon than digivolving Shoutmon.
TMaakkonen
Member
Mega versions were Aeroveedramon and Rapidmon Gold for OmniShoutmon, Taomon and Megadramon for Arresterdramon.
I believe they were locked evolutions, so if you didn't get them to City, you couldn't evolve into them.
Master Milk
Member
i watched a few episodes of tamers this weekend and noticed they drew takato's dick when he matrix evols . . . kid's shows are crazy sometimes
me too
me too
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Finally watched the Appmon finale---damn, that was pretty good.
Any word as to what's next for it? I mean, is it just...like dead now? Back to regular ol' Digimon?
Any word as to what's next for it? I mean, is it just...like dead now? Back to regular ol' Digimon?
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Nothing said about any future plans at this point. It's always possible they could do more with the concept, but I'm not really sure right now if we'll get any more. I guess we just have to wait and see if they announce anything in the coming months.
With how technology has advanced, I can't see them drop these concepts that appeal to a younger generation. I feel they might keep the mobile phones and apps around, but simply use Digimon as a name rather than Appmon going forward, bringing both concepts together under one banner.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
At least you never got a pointless sequel meant to pad the time slot because the supposed replacement anime hasn't yet finished!
Looking fly, Doggie!