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[Drizzlehell]

The first one is that most video game writing ranges from generic to bad, with extremely rare cases of something that's actually worth your time.

And the second is that it takes far too long to get to any meaningful story beats so if you're looking to engage in a a game primarily for its story, then usually you have to wade through a lot of mind-numbingly boring grind called "gameplay".

Now, to break down those two reasons a little bit, let's look at the first part of my argument - the bad writing. Maybe I'm just not playing the right kind of games but I swear, I can't remember any brand new game that I picked up in the last 3 to 5 years that wasn't a remake or a remaster and it would have a truly engaging and memorable storyline. Most of it is either severely lackluster or just painfully generic and forgettable. And when I write "good story", I really mean it. Try to find me a fucking Goodfellas of video games in terms of writing and execution of the story, and I will kiss you because I would love to play that game. The closest comparison that I can think of right now is perhaps Mafia, however, you need to remember that 1) Mafia was a remake of game that was already praised for the quality of its storytelling (but not so much for its gameplay), 2) it's still nowhere near as good as even the most lacking Scorsese films. So there you go, storytelling in vast majority of video games tends to be severely underwhelming, at least for me.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't any games that tell a decent story. I could think of a few examples from recent years that I could give some praise to. But the problem in most of those cases is that it takes far, FAR too long to actually get to the good parts, to the point where you almost wish you could just watch a movie or a TV show based on these ideas instead. Which ironically is exactly what happened recently with The Last of Us TV show. I've been putting off replaying the game (specifically it's remaster/remake) because I just didn't want to wade through hours of mediocre stealth gameplay just to watch a couple of cutscenes that are the actual highlight of the whole experience. Therefore, I was delighted that I could just watch this new adaptation instead, and finally enjoy the story in a proper live action format. I realize that this makes me sound like I just hate gaming but that's not the case at all. I just grew to dislike games that pretend to be movies. And, at the same time, I enjoy games that are actual games. You know, ones that have good and engaging gameplay and utilize the medium's unique strengths to tell a story in an interactive (and not cinematic) way. Or, you know, just provide me with a playground to be the hero of my own stories instead, which is what video games should be doing. I mean, dude, on most days when I get off work and want to zone out, I usually spend a few hours flying a space ship around the galaxy in Elite Dangerous, which for most passive observers would seem like the most boring thing in the universe, but I find it enthralling just because it's my story in this unpredictable virtual world. However, if I decide to sit down and engage in a game that sells itself as this incredible gem of video game storytelling, and then I end up mashing buttons for 3 hours and actually start thinking about doing laundry just as I reach the next boring expository cutscene starring planks of wood as main characters, then I generally start to question the tastes of modern audiences who think that this shit is any good.

 

[Fuz]

Maybe I'm just not playing the right kind of games

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/adventure-games-thread-2022-we-can-use-these-things-together.1628970/

 

[64bitmodels]

I've been putting off replaying the game (specifically it's remaster/remake) because I just didn't want to wade through hours of mediocre stealth gameplay just to watch a couple of cutscenes that are the actual highlight of the whole experience. Therefore, I was delighted that I could just watch this new adaptation instead, and finally enjoy the story in a proper live action format.

this is also probably why the adaptation was so successful, it kept the parts of the game people really wanted and ditched the rest. people who wanted to replay the game now had less of a reason to since the adaptation is right there and lets them skip the gameplay for the story (which is really the #1 reason why anyone liked TLOU to begin with)

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Games generally have bad writing. This is not a new take and certainly not one that needs large paragraphs to explain. Having said that, some games have serviceable stories.

 

[winjer]

Too many game devs think they are the equivalent of Tarantino, but don't realize they are Uwe Boll.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I do share your sentiments that story in games have been very weak lately, but I think that is due to narrative aspects of games taking a backseat for more and more content. It ruins the pacing and there is a ton more filler in games making the highs very far apart. I think narrative games lend themselves to more focused pacing of Hi-Fi Rush or Guardians of the Galaxy opposed to something more bloated like Assassin's Creed Valhalla.

Also, kind of what you are saying, the gameplay moments and story moments don't really blend in an out in a lot of games. I think games like TLOU Part II did very well in this regard. The story was still happening while in gameplay. There was a ton of environmental storytelling and emergent gameplay. I do get what you are saying about TLOU though and using the show to watch the key story moments. I'm kind of doing that myself.

What I don't like is story heavy games that want me to do a ton of collectathons and side content in-between major story beats. Most games seem to have this weird mix between cinematic moments and really game-y segments. I also don't like the trend of telling most of the story through exposition or lore (go easy on me). Anytime someone starts explaining a whole bunch of things through a communication device I grow uninterested. It is usually in a monotone heavy foreign accent.

I think the Yakuza games do stories really well even despite having side content. It all seems to weave into the worldbuilding of the game and always seems to have some context with to the development of your character that makes sense. The side content feels more natural. I guess it would fit into environmental storytelling. The game also has really well made cutscenes and voice acting.

I also appreciate games like As Dusk Falls, Life is Strange, and Detroit Become Human for being solely focused on narrative and not having other elements that get in the way of that as much. Sometimes they are bogged down by superficial "gameplay" though.

 

[Loomy]

Sounds like you should be looking for your narrative kick elsewhere, and stick to videogames that prioritize gameplay.

I would also add that most TV/film/books writing range from generic to bad, so it's not a game writing problem, it's a general narrative writing problem. The difference is that a TV episode has around an hours worth of mediocre writing that you have to get through vs ~20 hours in a video game.

 

[Punished Miku]

Best story games I played last year:
Pentiment
Triangle Strategy
Norco
Citizen Sleeper
As Dusk Falls

 

[German Hops]

Try Chained Echoes.

 

[Drizzlehell]

I do share your sentiments that story in games have been very weak lately, but I think that is due to narrative aspects of games taking a backseat for more and more content. It ruins the pacing and there is a ton more filler in games making the highs very far apart. I think narrative games lend themselves to more focused pacing of Hi-Fi Rush or Guardians of the Galaxy opposed to something more bloated like Assassin's Creed Valhalla.

Also, kind of what you are saying, the gameplay moments and story moments don't really blend in an out in a lot of games. I think games like TLOU Part II did very well in this regard. The story was still happening while in gameplay. There was a ton of environmental storytelling and emergent gameplay. I do get what you are saying about TLOU though and using the show to watch the key story moments. I'm kind of doing that myself.

What I don't like is story heavy games that want me to do a ton of collectathons and side content in-between major story beats. Most games seem to have this weird mix between cinematic moments and really game-y segments. I also don't like the trend of telling most of the story through exposition or lore (go easy on me). Anytime someone starts explaining a whole bunch of things through a communication device I grow uninterested. It is usually in a monotone heavy foreign accent.

I think the Yakuza games do stories really well even despite having side content. It all seems to weave into the worldbuilding of the game and always seems to have some context with to the development of your character that makes sense. The side content feels more natural. I guess it would fit into environmental storytelling. The game also has really well made cutscenes and voice acting.

I also appreciate games like As Dusk Falls, Life is Strange, and Detroit Become Human for being solely focused on narrative and not having other elements that get in the way of that as much. Sometimes they are bogged down by superficial "gameplay" though.

Yeah, actually you've reaminded me of a very recent example of a game where I actually found myself quite engaged with the story whenever I had the chance to speak to random NPCs or quest givers, and that was Dying Light 2. I think it's mostly thanks to the fact that most of those characters were rather vibrant and each of them had that one defining trait that made them stand out and prevented them from being just a generic uncanny valley quest dispenser. But then that was just a very small part of a game that inevitably forces you out the door of whatever settlement you were in and back into the endless grind of ticking off boxes from the open world map.

I also find myself playing a lot of the narrative focused games like Life Is Strange and Detroit, or even games that people usually call "walking simulators" in a derogatory manner (even though a lot of them don't deserve it). Mostly because they tend to be more compact experiences that let me progress from one plot beat to the next at a brisk pace, with some tacky but unobtrusive gameplay section in between, with the latter essentially functioning as an equivalent of an action scene.

 

[Punished Miku]

Yeah, actually you've reaminded me of a very recent example of a game where I actually found myself quite engaged with the story whenever I had the chance to speak to random NPCs or quest givers, and that was Dying Light 2. I think it's mostly thanks to the fact that most of those characters were rather vibrant and each of them had that one defining trait that made them stand out and prevented them from being just a generic uncanny valley quest dispenser. But then that was just a very small part of a game that inevitably forces you out the door of whatever settlement you were in and back into the endless grind of ticking off boxes from the open world map.

I also find myself playing a lot of the narrative focused games like Life Is Strange and Detroit, or even games that people usually call "walking simulators" in a derogatory manner (even though a lot of them don't deserve it). Mostly because they tend to be more compact experiences that let me progress from one plot beat to the next at a brisk pace, with some tacky but unobtrusive gameplay section in between, with the latter essentially functioning as an equivalent of an action scene.

Dying Light 2 also had one of the most famous RPG writers ever brought on to help the story.

 

[diffusionx]

Playing Metroid Prime, games have a unique ability to tell a story in the environment, in ways that are totally different from any other entertainment medium. Yet so many fall back on bad imitations of TV/movies. I am not even talking like Dark Souls opaque "forgive me zanzibart" stuff but really they could do so much better without making expensive cinemas, voice acting, etc.

 

[Clear]

I don't think people understand how placing a story in the context of a videogame complicates things.

First of all so much meaning is communicated through context and pacing; removing punctuation can completely obscure/confuse the meaning of a sentence. Perhaps its easiest to think of how bad delivery and/or editing can make an otherwise well-constructed joke fall flat.

The relevance of this when writing for a game is that you need to realize that in most instances you are giving up control over the pacing between story beats, the player may need to learn a basic or new mechanic which can take an indeterminate amount of time, and at best unless everything is running along a rail you have to expect that some players are going to take a direct path, while others are going to poke around and explore.

This is huge because its hard to predict how "fresh" the story development is, making it hard to properly build it going forwards.

Another key point is that this inherent time (and attention) variance is unavoidable under most circumstances as its bound to the overall mechanical design of the game. If the player needs to learn a new skill between story beat A and B, because that ability is key for gameplay purposes, then it absolutely needs to be introduced there.

The upshot is that the needs of the gameplay and the needs of the story often end up being at odds. Because essentially what's happening is you are trying to tell two stories at the same time; with the gameplay story being necessary to be taught in order to get to the next plot beat!

So, the story gets placed in a secondary position to serving the gameplay, with limited control over pacing based on how free-form the player is allowed to express themselves. And people really wonder why game stories suffer compared with non-interactive media...

 

[AJUMP23]

Have you heard the legend of Darth Palageous.

 

[93xfan]

Beacon Pines if you want a unique story only a game can deliver. It’s a top down story driven game and is entertaining throughout.

 

[JackSparr0w]

Caring about story in video game is dumb. Just give me great gameplay, visuals and characters that are not insufferable.

 

[Wildebeest]

I have problems finding stories which I care about anywhere right now. I'd rather watch documentaries.

A big problem I have with many games is that they try to drop too much story content at too high a pace. They just dump all of their scribblings right on you and don't have any care or respect for editing or your ability to process new information. They can write all that junk, but should use it to inform how the world is and should be, and treat it as scaffolding to be removed when the building is finished. I'm not impressed at all by endless hours of voice acting work from protagonists and sidekicks who never shut up about what they think about everything in the world.

 

[ManaByte]

Best story games I played last year:
Pentiment
Triangle Strategy
Norco
Citizen Sleeper
As Dusk Falls

Was going to mention some of these.

I’m sick of slow walking and talking in “cinematic” games. GOWR bores me with that so much I couldn’t finish it. They even put that in WoW: Dragonflight!

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Games need to do better at utilizing the unique nature of the medium to present amazing stories. They need to stop just trying to be movies where you press some buttons every once in a while.

Shadow of Mordor is a good recent example of games doing it right. The nemesis system allowed unique storylines to play out as you progressed. There was a main story, but there was also mini stories tied to your path through the orc generals in Mordor. The moment to moment gameplay had emergent stories that were interesting based on rivalries and battles with the various orc captains, and that kept you engaged until the next main story beat.

 

[Fbh]

I like stories in games.
Sure they aren't nearly as good as the best books, movies or TV shows but I still enjoy them and I think they can enhance games.

Gow 2018 isn't as good as Goodfellas but I sure as hell liked the story and characters more than most blockbuster movies from the last 10 years (which, to be fair, is like 90% Marvel), I enjoyed Spiderman Ps4 more than those awful Tom Holland movies, I think the Mass Effect trilogy was better than anything Star Wars or Star Trek have put out since like the year 2000, Triangle strategy had me more engaged than the last couple of seasons of GOT and I'd rather re experience Nier Automata and its unique take on the "what if robots had feelings" plot than the last 3 awful seasons of Westworld.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I do agree that TLOU is better as a TV show than it is as a game.

 

[Guilty_AI]

So, the story gets placed in a secondary position to serving the gameplay, with limited control over pacing based on how free-form the player is allowed to express themselves. And people really wonder why game stories suffer compared with non-interactive media...

I think this is a key point here. Player expression.

The more mechanics a game has, the more the player is allowed to express themselves, and higher will be the degree of unpredictability of the narrative. Whatever game a developer is making, they'll have to decide between more mechanics with a more free-form narrative, or less mechanics with a more solid narrative.

Thats another key point that needs to be pointed out. The aspect that gets affected by the gaming medium is the narrative, not the story. You can have both a great story and a highly interactive game, however its unlikely you'll be able to build and present that story like a hollywood movie.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Stories don't have to be exceptionally good when good-enough direction and professional voice acting can give the average gamer/spectator the feels they would get from any successful movie/TV series you can mention. Look at the "gaming's Citizen Kane moment" bs about TLOU and all the people lapping it up like it's something revolutionary or "mature". It's just taking what works in another medium and dropping it into games as-is. But as you can see, it works like a charm.

This is why I preferred it when games were text only. You couldn't feel the cringe fully in the case of bad writing, and average comic book dialogue couldn't be expertly made to sound like some award-worthy film stuff. It's much easier to think you're watching a masterpiece of narrative when Troy Baker voices the main character. It's also the reason why text-only games that can't afford good VA and cutscene direction now feel much cringier on average, or resort to Souls-like incomprehensible mumbo jumbo to make people think the plot is deeper than it is and has some actual weight to it.

It's all smoke and mirrors. And it's working as intended. Meanwhile, many games are suffering from bad pacing and unfocused gameplay, while production costs and time keep inflating.

 

[Vick]

I like stories in games.
Sure they aren't nearly as good as the best books, movies or TV shows but I still enjoy them and I think they can enhance games.

Gow 2018 isn't as good as Goodfellas but I sure as hell liked the story and characters more than most blockbuster movies from the last 10 years (which, to be fair, is like 90% Marvel), I enjoyed Spiderman Ps4 more than those awful Tom Holland movies, I think the Mass Effect trilogy was better than anything Star Wars or Star Trek have put out since like the year 2000, Triangle strategy had me more engaged than the last couple of seasons of GOT and I'd rather re experience Nier Automata and its unique take on the "what if robots had feelings" plot than the last 3 awful seasons of Westworld.

I would add how some Witcher 3 side quests are legit as good as the very best has ever been offered by other media forms.

I do agree that TLOU is better as a TV show than it is as a game.

It's a colossal downgrade from the game in any single and imaginable way.
Thought actually shared by at least 90% of GAF users, going by the OT.

And the more it goes on the more it becomes apparent, highlighting the importance of interactivity and sense of intimacy innate in this medium used flawlessly in 2013 to achieve something literally impossible to translate as effectively in a passive media form.. de facto dismissing OP flawed point on the game.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I would add how some Witcher 3 side quests are legit as good as the very best has ever been offered by other media forms.


It's a colossal downgrade from the game in any single and imaginable way.

Thought actually shared by at least 90% of GAF users, going by the OT.

I haven’t played the game since it first got that ps4 release, but I’d rather just watch a TV show than do their slow walk and chats, push around dumpsters,and do those stealth sections to get through the story. I’m gonna play it again on PC this month and maybe I’ll change my mind.

 

[Vick]

I haven’t played the game since it first got that ps4 release, but I’d rather just watch a TV show than do their slow walk and chats, push around dumpsters,and do those stealth sections to get through the story. I’m gonna play it again on PC this month and maybe I’ll change my mind.

You already fucked up hard by poisoning yourself with the TV series first.. and yet I still think you'd no doubt change your mind even when completely deprived of the emotional aspect of the experience and all that humanly goes with unpredictability and surprise.
Assuming I'm not overestimating your artistic sensibilities/mental capabilities that is.

Game's "story" and its subtleties (which the series is entirely devoid of) naturally develop and unfold during the "slow walk and chats, push around dumpsters, and do those stealth sections to get through the story", by the way.

 

[BrutalTruth_]

I do agree that TLOU is better as a TV show than it is as a game.

How is that even possible? I mean you're entitled to your opinion but the show has cut SO MUCH storyline, including touching moments between Ellie and Joel which made you care about their bond.

 

[Deerock71]

Did Alan Wake get mentioned in that wall of text anywhere? How did it fare?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

no one is forcing you to engage with them.

criticizing story-driven games because they focus on narrative is like criticizing gameplay-driven games because they lack story.

 

[Nautilus]

That just goes to show how opinions differ, and how I *usually* dislike stories told by western stodios, that tend to be more realistic in nature. Like the game you used as an example, Mafia.

 

[-tetsuo-]

The first one is that most video game writing ranges from generic to bad, with extremely rare cases of something that's actually worth your time.

Most writing for anything is generic to bad.

 

[Vick]

How is that even possible? I mean you're entitled to your opinion but the show has cut SO MUCH storyline, including touching moments between Ellie and Joel which made you care about their bond.

It's not, in fact.

It's an overrated, at times quite cheap 6/10 piece of television, doing nothing that hasn't been done before much better in the same medium even 20 years prior (Nip/Tuck EP. 10 vs TLOU EP. 3) or in the entirety of Walking Dead of which comparison with the first seasons is plainly embarrassing for the HBO product.

All with a sprinkle of modern propaganda, granting better reception and the satisfaction of Druckmann special needs.

 

[Crayon]

A) I think you have to put in some legwork to find these very specific blends you want and that's just how it's going to be.

B) that writing in gow 2018 is like 30 times better than the last few disney-manchild movies I've been dragged into.

 

[Hobbygaming]

The games I tend to play have good story and good gameplay not one or the other

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I skip as much dialogue and story shit as I can. I makes not difference to me what the production values are because I want to play a game, not watch one.

Nothing is worse than unskippable cut scenes.

I only watch or read dialogue when I have to (making sure I pick the choice I want in a Mass Effect game etc...)

Also, the quality of script, voice acting and uncanny valley animation is almost always shit too. Let's face it. It's a video game. Not a movie going for a red carpet award handed out by Steven Spielberg. So to game devs and gamers, it's just something to move the game along so it's not a complete action packed game. Because hey, just like movies if you make it too action packed it's stereotyped as a mindless bad product. But put in some though provoking dialogue and story and people think it's a better product by pure intellect.

Some reason game makers put so much effort into this, when a lot of gamers just want to play games. Just to prove this, the most played games (online games with different modes, big open world games, or games with a repetitive hook to it) are games people play the most even though they got zero story or some traditional find and kill the king boss. They arent replaying a SP narrative 9 hour game 10 times in a row. People are either one and done, or they dont even bother beating the game in the first place.

Video game makers seem to have his draw to Hollywood when games are different than movies. But they probably all have this thought in the back of their mind their video art or shitty script will win them an award as if they are equivalent to James Cameron or Tom Cruise.

They should stick to the core product. You dont see movies getting game pads installed in theatres trying to get people to watch a movie like they are playing Action Max.

 

[nkarafo]

Story is the least important thing to me in games. If a game has too much focus on it, i simply play something else.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Too many game devs think they are the equivalent of Tarantino, but don't realize they are Uwe Boll.

and too many gamers think they are Dr. Disrespect or Shroud, but don't realize they are Dean Takahashi