Support NeoGAF

[RM8]

My day is ruined more by f2p cash ins of once great franchises.

Ill take ds hardware for 20 bucks to prevent more of that

Basically.

I'm actually okay with mobile, but the execution of the games from traditional platforms to phones has been absolutely terrible and disheartening. Sure, we don't get Dragon Quest Monsters on 3DS (outside of Japan), but why does that mean the one we can get (iOS) is a terrible F2P game?

Make good mobile games and then I'd be fine with a mobile-only approach. Otherwise, I'd stick to Game Boy Color hardware and real games.

 

[Instro]

I'm not sure why Nintendo would need another company to design hardware for them. The reason their hardware is weak is purely by choice to keep costs low, not out of ineptitude.

 

[Anth0ny]

If there is no good boost in power then Nintendo will have to come up with another 'gimmick' as there would be little reason for consumers and developers to jump ship from the 3DS if there is no major difference to the thing (don't think battery life is a selling point for many).

Gimmick = good, exclusive games

 

[Deleted member 125677]

I think mobile games have the same image problem as the Wii : the overwhelming number of shovelware makes it harder to spot the gems. They exist though, for both

 

[Vashetti]

I dread to think what kind of numbers the XB1 will launch with in September. They may as well not bother.

 

[metalslimer]

Gimmick = good, exclusive games

And great ergonomics great system architecture and great os

 

[RM8]

Gimmick = good, exclusive games

And affordable price. This combination tends to work

 

[bidoof01]

I dread to think what kind of numbers the XB1 will launch with in September. They may as well not bother.

Some mindshare is better than none.

 

[BlackJace]

Me too. That's why I generally avoid them and play other stuff. Things like Monument Valley, Hitman GO, and FTL, to name 3 very recent games.

So good. No IAP bullshit either.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Anyone, I don't care. Fucking LG for all it matters.

That said, AniHawk is totally correct. There's no place for a premium dedicated handheld. Except in my dreams

I think there's a place, but it's up to the software developers to help it. The market is dictated by software, but if third party developers keep migrating their resources and IPs to mobile phones, there'll be less and less to distinguish between the two devices, and obviously people will choose the device with greater functionality and purpose (cell phone).

People keep saying that it's a hardware issue, but it's a software issue. If enough exciting and attractive games were made for dedicated handhelds, the type of games not found on iphones or android devices, the consumers will flock to them.

 

[Pain]

This is depressing.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm not sure why Nintendo would need another company to design hardware for them. The reason their hardware is weak is purely by choice to keep costs low, not out of ineptitude.

That's a fair point, I was just running with the dream scenario of Sony and Nintendo teaming up on a handheld. It might be more accurate to say I'd like it to have Sony's design ethos, regardless of which of them designed it.

It's all hypothetical anyway. There won't be another Sony dedicated handheld, and the next Nintendo device will probably be on par with the Vita at best.

I think there's a place, but it's up to the software developers to help it. The market is dictated by software, but if third party developers keep migrating their resources and IPs to mobile phones, there'll be less and less to distinguish between the two devices, and obviously people will choose the device with greater functionality and purpose (cell phone).

People keep saying that it's a hardware issue, but it's a software issue. If enough exciting and attractive games were made for dedicated handhelds, the type of games not found on iphones or android devices, the consumers will flock to them.

Eh, I think most (global) consumers would just moan that those titles weren't on consoles. Handheld gaming is still fiercely looked down upon by most enthusiasts as far as I can tell. "Why play on that when I have a 90 inch TV?!".

 

[KillerMan91]

I'm not sure why Nintendo would need another company to design hardware for them. The reason their hardware is weak is purely by choice to keep costs low, not out of ineptitude.

I really don't think 3DS is that much cheaper to produce than Vita. Especially now after Sony went from OLED to LCD. It's not like Sony went completely nuts with Vita like they did with PSP when it comes to power.

 

[Freeman]

I still think Vita should have been a smartphone/tablet with gaming controls and I used to think that when it was released. The opportunity is still there to do something like this I guess, I think there is no way Sony will release another portable after Vita. Nintendo should learn the same lesson before they too have to deal with a similar situation.

Big budget games for portables is about as niche as you can get Nintendo gets it Sony doesn't (most of the time).

 

[RM8]

I still think Vita should have been a smartphone/tablet with gaming controls and I used to think that when it was released. The opportunity is still there to do something like this I guess, I think there is no way Sony will release another portable after Vita. Nintendo should learn the same lesson before they too have to deal with a similar situation.

This approach doesn't work because mobile is big due to everyone owning a phone. If you have to buy a separate device, it defeats the purpose. It's why controllers for phone and tablets have not and will most likely never take off.

 

[metalslimer]

I still think Vita should have been a smartphone/tablet with gaming controls and I used to think that when it was released. The opportunity is still there to do something like this I guess, I think there is no way Sony will release another portable after Vita. Nintendo should learn the same lesson before they too have to deal with a similar situation.

Gaming controls on mobile devices remains a terrible idea. Maybe some kind of attachable controls but then you are still making the device less mobile.

 

[gngf123]

That's a fair point, I was just running with the dream scenario of Sony and Nintendo teaming up on a handheld. It might be more accurate to say I'd like it to have Sony's design ethos, regardless of which of them designed it.

It's all hypothetical anyway. There won't be another Sony dedicated handheld, and the next Nintendo device will probably be on par with the Vita at best.

Well the 3DS is more powerful than the PSP so who knows. They might see the shrinking market and go ultra low cost.

I have no idea what they are going to do, but something needs to happen because I really don't like the future we are heading for.

 

[sphinx]

i would rather nintendo go back to the basics: focus on portability, battery life, and low cost to users and developers. handheld dedicated gaming devices should not be premium products.

I agree,

I take these terrible sales as Japan crying out loud and begging for high quality SNES/GEN era gameplay with current aesthetics in a portable device. exactly that,

 

[Vashetti]

I think any new handhelds from Nintendo or Sony would need to be able to be used as a phone too.

People only want to carry one portable device, 9 times out of 10, the phone wins out.

 

[L~A]

01./03. [3DS] Yo-kai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {2013.07.11} (¥4.800) - 34.690 / 754.910

Yup, it's insane.

According to my calculations, they need to sell at least 23 190/week to reach 1M before Youkai Watch 2 is launched (255 090 units left and 11 weeks left).

People only want to carry one portable device, 9 times out of 10, the phone wins out.

Yup. And people won't change their precious iPhone for a Nintendo or Sony phone. Never ever.

 

[Freeman]

Gaming controls on mobile devices remains a terrible idea. Maybe some kind of attachable controls but then you are still making the device less mobile.

This approach doesn't work because mobile is big due to everyone owning a phone. If you have to buy a separate device, it defeats the purpose. It's why controllers for phone and tablets have not and will most likely never take off.

Maybe its just because I don't like smartphones(I don't really understand how people spend so much money on it), but how would physical control integrated in the device take anything away? I could be done in a classy way.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

Maybe its just because I don't like smartphones, but how would physical control integrated in the device take anything away? I could be done in a classy way.

Because you want to aim at the install base that already exists. It's obvious that people aren't interested in migrating to something new for games.

 

[iori9999]

Well the 3DS is more powerful than the PSP so who knows. They might see the shrinking market and go ultra low cost.

I have no idea what they are going to do, but something needs to happen because I really don't like the future we are heading for.

Call of Dooty on tablets eminent..

 

[Spieler Eins]

I don't believe the Japanese market is dead because the people moved, but because the developers just chose the easy way out and abandoned traditional consoles for mobile too quickly. WiiU and PS4 just aren't compelling products, but expensive and without interesting games. 3DS didn't sell 15 mil aeons ago, but just recently (and now it's slowing down because there's again not that much new software and if it's like the west, it's proposal has been kept the same for too long). There seem to be many games breaking their series records even now and generally a lot of software sold. If Japanese developers actually tried to make compelling, traditional videogame products outside of the cellphone sector again, it would sell. And certainly the 3DS will pick up again too when the next bigger games hit.

 

[Black Republican]

HW sales continue to be shameful..........damn son

 

[RM8]

Maybe its just because I don't like smartphones(I don't really understand how people spend so much money on it), but how would physical control integrated in the device take anything away? I could be done in a classy way.

N-Gage and Xperia Play have been pretty big failures. Phones don't even have keyboards anymore, the phones that actually sell share almost the exact same form factor. Really, we're not going to see an iPhone with buttons, and Sony is clearly not itching for another Xperia Play. I mean, it's not like the Xperia line as a whole is setting the world on fire.

 

[Freeman]

Because you want to aim at the install base that already exists. It's obvious that people aren't interested in migrating to something new for games.

They change phones all the time, make it appealing and if would sell to those who are interested in good games with good controls, that is about all you could hope for in the portable market. Would the vita self destruct if it was able to make call and looked more like a smartphone?

N-Gage and Xperia Play have been pretty big failures. Phones don't even have keyboards anymore, the phones that actually sell share almost the exact same form factor. Really, we're not going to see an iPhone with buttons, and Sony is clearly not itching for another Xperia Play. I mean, it's not like the Xperia line as a whole is setting the world on fire.

They didn't have the same support that portables get.
Make the next Nintendo portable look like the Xperia Play with improved inputs and hardware and I'm sure it would sell better than any portable before.

I look ridiculous holding my red 3ds, I don't care, many people do. When I put the Vita in my pocket it looks like I have a constant erection.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Yo-Kai Watch #1

 

[shinra-bansho]

I'd be really surprised if they tried a dedicated handheld again. There's not an audience for Sony portables anymore.

They could try selling a consumer electronics tablet with some buttons and sticks, but at that point the business model is basically entirely around hardware margins and it's not something you make games for in the same sense.

At this point they're just salvaging what they can out of the Vita with a minimal effort and trying to tide over their Japanese consumers until they either pick up a PS4 or they don't.

Losing what's left of the Japanese console market isn't really going to hurt them in the long run so there's no reason to run a loss leading handheld to entice people to their brand and thus the platform in the region.

Pretty much agree.

I don't think they even lose that much of a content delivery route really, as they can simply leverage mobile and put SEN services on Xperia and other vendor devices. It's likely the endgame for PSNow as well.

They can sell their closed box that's meant to take pride of place in the living room big screen, and simultaneously sell on people's personal screens.

 

[RM8]

They didn't have the same support that portables get.
Make the next Nintendo portable look like the Xperia Play with improved inputs and hardware and I'm sure it would sell better than any portable before.

So basically a very expensive gaming handheld, and a very unappealing mainstream phone.

 

[Freeman]

So basically a very expensive gaming handheld, and a very unappealing mainstream phone.

Why would it be expensive? If anything it would cost less, since carriers would be interested in promoting them.

Its like the PC market, only a tiny part of it is composed of PC gamers, but that is more than enough. Get a small part of the smartphone market interested in improved controls and game support and it might be successful.

I guess we will have to wait for Apple to do something like this, then suddenly it will be cool.

 

[Oemenia]

Sega: "Last time we sold 158k on Vita and 113k later on PS3, why don't we release it on both platforms simultaneously this time, we'll make those numbers again in a single week, right?"

Japan: "Nope"

Aren't simultaneous launches good for sales?

 

[Pancakes R Us]

3DS YoY drop is big. All the major releases seem to be out already too. I don't see how Nintendo can hold out to 2016 for the next launch.

 

[RM8]

Why would it be expensive? If anything it would cost less, since carriers would be interested in promoting them.

It would be expensive because a phone with the power of a 3DS would sell like pure crap. It would need to be at least a mid-range phone, automatically pricing it higher than a handheld. Plus it'd be outdated in a year.

 

[Nirolak]

Pretty much agree.

I don't think they even lose that much of a content delivery route really, as they can simply leverage mobile and put SEN services on Xperia and other vendor devices. It's likely the endgame for PSNow as well.

They can sell their closed box that's meant to take pride of place in the living room big screen, and simultaneously sell on people's personal screens.

They also don't have much incentive to stay in a toxic business, because it's not a huge percentage of their income like the 3DS is with Nintendo.

 

[Freeman]

It would be expensive because a phone with the power of a 3DS would sell like pure crap. It would need to be at least a mid-range phone, automatically pricing it higher than a handheld. Plus it'd be outdated in a year.

I didn't say it would have the power of 3ds, I specifically mentioned improved hardware. The Vita doesn't look bad in comparison to similar priced phones.

 

[RM8]

I didn't say it would have the power of 3ds, I specifically mentioned improved hardware. The Vita doesn't look bad in comparison to similar priced phones.

Not sure if you missed the part where premium priced handhelds don't sell

 

[Prelude.]

Aren't simultaneous launches good for sales?

Apparently not.

 

[MonsterHunter]

Pity FFXIV PS4 didn't push a couple more units. I know the PS3 upgrade campaign eats into the numbers, but it deserves to be on top.

 

[AniHawk]

You're undeniably right from a business perspective, sadly. Mobile gaming is where my portable future lies. I can't fuck with lo-fi hardware, it ruins my day.

yeah, and as much as i like the vita and 3ds, i can't really be arsed with the library when a lot of it is console-lite games. funny enough, mobile gaming has a lot of limitations that lends itself more to experimentation and unique software. i bought about 55 ds games. i'll wind up with maybe 30-35 for the 3ds.

 

[Freeman]

Not sure if you missed the part where premium priced handhelds don't sell

It wouldn't be just a handheld. But anyway, lets just see how successful the next Nintendo portable will be, maybe everybody should just quit going by your line of thought. Why would anyone insist on staying in a contracting market without at least attempting some different approaches.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I don't believe the Japanese market is dead because the people moved, but because the developers just chose the easy way out and abandoned traditional consoles for mobile too quickly. WiiU and PS4 just aren't compelling products, but expensive and without interesting games. 3DS didn't sell 15 mil aeons ago, but just recently (and now it's slowing down because there's again not that much new software and if it's like the west, it's proposal has been kept the same for too long). There seem to be many games breaking their series records even now and generally a lot of software sold. If Japanese developers actually tried to make compelling, traditional videogame products outside of the cellphone sector again, it would sell. And certainly the 3DS will pick up again too when the next bigger games hit.

I agree with this. Publishers have been sabotaging dedicated gaming machines for years. Now they are stuck between fickle casuals on mobile and struggling consoles. Now we need to hope that final fantasy 15 can get this turned around...

 

[Jamix012]

I'm not sure why Nintendo would need another company to design hardware for them. The reason their hardware is weak is purely by choice to keep costs low, not out of ineptitude.

I don't disagree nessecarily. I just feel like consolidating the handheld market into one portable that has the best of both worlds could carve out it's own profitable, permanent niche in the face of smart phones. Sony 1st party and their 3rd party "partners" with nintendo first party? It would capture Japan and, if designed well, it could be a nice decent success in the west.

Why Sony? If they transition to a one screen handheld (as I believe they will) they won't be able to preserve BC. Grabbing Sony and getting an agreement could sort out at least Vita BC which would be a decent selling point in Japan and a minor one in the west. Sony already has most of the hardware. Just need to boost the Vita to be able to do native 600p+ (all the time, no sub native stuff please.) Sony plays along because they agree on a cut of the revenue (25% or something) giving them motivation to produce some minor first party titles, and encouraging cross over IPs which could lead to some interesting games. Sony would obviously otherwise not be making a new handheld, so this would probably be a business-smart deal considering they would likely make a decent profit off the thing.

Well-designed (aesthetically pleasing) Vita 1.5 in terms of power for $150 with Nintendo software in 2016 running with the gameboy name? I don't see why it couldn't carve a 60 million base even with the rise of smartphones.

 

[RM8]

It wouldn't be just a handheld. But anyway, lets just see how successful the next Nintendo portable will be, maybe everybody should just quit going by your line of thought. Why would anyone insist on contracting market without at least attempting some different approaches.

There's a reason why it isn't happening. Cheap handhelds sell, yearly premium phones with no buttons sell.

 

[Instro]

That's a fair point, I was just running with the dream scenario of Sony and Nintendo teaming up on a handheld. It might be more accurate to say I'd like it to have Sony's design ethos, regardless of which of them designed it.

It's all hypothetical anyway. There won't be another Sony dedicated handheld, and the next Nintendo device will probably be on par with the Vita at best.

I was speaking to the comments bringing up companies beyond Sony. A Sony team up makes sense purely to consolidate the traditional market, having Panasonic or whoever design hardware does not.

 

[Freeman]

There's a reason why it isn't happening. Cheap handhelds sell, yearly premium phones with no buttons sell.

Well if 3DS sales are enough than sure.

$170~215 = cheap
$199 = expensive

The only cheap thing about the 3ds is its hardware, not its price.

 

[Vashetti]

3DS YoY drop is big. All the major releases seem to be out already too. I don't see how Nintendo can hold out to 2016 for the next launch.

They won't.

"4DS" will come next year.

 

[RM8]

Well if 3DS sales are enough than sure.

Even with a shrinking market, your hybrid that wouldn't apepal to either side wouldn't do much better, really.

I'm not sure how low Nintendo would have to go tech-wise, but GBA launching at $99 (with Mario Kart no less) was brilliant and I want to see that again.

 

[Takao]

Stop talking about a hypothetical PlayStation Gameboy. There's no way Nintendo would partner up with SCE, so those dreams only hurt.

 

[-Horizon-]

And everything was down :/