Support NeoGAF

[SunhiLegend]

Has anyone talked about tyre wear in the games?

With GT, racing online in a 15 lap race or even shorter depending on the car and tyres you most definitely would need to pit for fresh rubber, 2 laps on the Nurburgring with slicks and your tyres were gone. Fuel consumption also plays a part in longer races as you need to add fuel when pitting otherwise you could run out, the handling of your car is also affected by the weight of fuel.

Tyre wear and tyre management is a huge part of motorsport, I was very surprised to find out it's almost non-existent in Forza 4, you could drive countless laps and you won't need to pit for tyres or fuel. It isn't the best in GT but at least it's there and could be expanded on like one of the updates did iirc, would love more options though such as being able to choose the rate of wear and the amount of fuel the car starts with.

Forza is definitely lacking in this regard.

 

[Ravensmash]

If the new objective is to post the worst screens from the games, then Forza 3 is fucked for sure lol

WELP

Have you not seen some of the standard models in GT5?

 

[FordGTGuy]

Has anyone talked about tyre wear in the games?

With GT, racing online in a 15 lap race or even shorter depending on the car and tyres you most definitely would need to pit for fresh rubber, 2 laps on the Nurburgring with slicks and your tyres were gone. Fuel consumption also plays a part in longer races as you need to add fuel when pitting otherwise you could run out, the handling of your car is also affected by the weight of fuel.

Tyre wear and tyre management is a huge part of motorsport, I was very surprised to find out it's almost non-existent in Forza 4, you could drive countless laps and you won't need to pit for tyres or fuel. It isn't the best in GT but at least it's there and could be expanded on like one of the updates did iirc, would love more options though such as being able to choose the rate of wear and the amount of fuel the car starts with.

Forza is definitely lacking in this regard.

This isn't true at all if you turn on simulation tire wear and depending on your driving style and type of tires you can go through them rather quick.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Have you not seen some of the standard models in GT5?

They have some tough competition though.

 

[FordGTGuy]

They have some tough competition though.

If the new objective is to post the worst screens from the games, then Forza 3 is fucked for sure lol

WELP

WELP

 

[TheD]

Exactly my point.

This is GT raw:

Low res shadows, low res reflections and screen space stippled transparency are not caused by compression artifacts.

 

[Pyramid head]

Has anyone talked about tyre wear in the games?

With GT, racing online in a 15 lap race or even shorter depending on the car and tyres you most definitely would need to pit for fresh rubber, 2 laps on the Nurburgring with slicks and your tyres were gone. Fuel consumption also plays a part in longer races as you need to add fuel when pitting otherwise you could run out, the handling of your car is also affected by the weight of fuel.

Tyre wear and tyre management is a huge part of motorsport, I was very surprised to find out it's almost non-existent in Forza 4, you could drive countless laps and you won't need to pit for tyres or fuel. It isn't the best in GT but at least it's there and could be expanded on like one of the updates did iirc, would love more options though such as being able to choose the rate of wear and the amount of fuel the car starts with.

Forza is definitely lacking in this regard.

It might be important in real life but to be honest, there is a huge amount of real life tedium which goes under represented in many genres of games, and I'm grateful for that.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Hey, look at that, another bugged pre-fix standard! Been a while.

Low res shadows, low res reflections and screen space stippled transparency are not caused by compression artifacts.

Nor did I say they were.

 

[TheD]

Hey, look at that, another bugged pre-fix standard! Been a while.



Nor did I say they were.

Then why post a screen grab of a Forza video with a huge amount macro block artifacts in response?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Then why post a screen grab of a Forza video with a huge amount macro block artifacts in response?

Because the picture was still badly compressed. The point was, you can cherry pic pictures in both games to make it look bad.

 

[TheD]

Because the picture was still badly compressed.

No, it was not.

Clearly not near lossless, but not bad enough to have a large effect.

 

[Metalmurphy]

No, it was not.

Yes it was. Just look at the text.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Yes it was. Just look at the text.

I wouldn't personally use this picture to do comparisons but it really isn't that badly compressed.

 

[Risk Breaker]

I wouldn't personally use this picture to do comparisons but it really isn't that badly compressed.

Are you blind?

 

[TheD]

Yes it was. Just look at the text.

The text does not have much in the way of artifacts.

Are you blind?

He clearly is not and that is an unacceptable way to talk to people.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Are you blind?

I already did a comparison earlier between PNG and JPEG images, yes there is a difference but it's really not enough to blame everything in the picture on compression.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Are you blind?

They only see what they want to see.

 

[TheD]

They only see what they want to see.

No, the picture is fine enough to compare most things, bar aliasing.

 

[SunhiLegend]

This isn't true at all if you turn on simulation tire wear and depending on your driving style and type of tires you can go through them rather quick.

Really?

Because nearly everywhere I've checked including official forums they don't agree, it's one concern a lot of people want addressed.

It might be important in real life but to be honest, there is a huge amount of real life tedium which goes under represented in many genres of games, and I'm grateful for that.

For longer races it's a must for any sim.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Really?

Because nearly everywhere I've checked including official forums they don't agree, it's one concern a lot of people want addressed.

It might be true on fuel but not tires. Turn on simulation tire wear, get in a race car and burn your tires up and see how long they last..

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Not being compressed is not suddenly going to up the shadow resolution and fix the shitty texture filtering. Let's get real - this compression excuse can only go so far.

 

[Angst]

Has anyone talked about tyre wear in the games?

With GT, racing online in a 15 lap race or even shorter depending on the car and tyres you most definitely would need to pit for fresh rubber, 2 laps on the Nurburgring with slicks and your tyres were gone. Fuel consumption also plays a part in longer races as you need to add fuel when pitting otherwise you could run out, the handling of your car is also affected by the weight of fuel.

Tyre wear and tyre management is a huge part of motorsport, I was very surprised to find out it's almost non-existent in Forza 4, you could drive countless laps and you won't need to pit for tyres or fuel. It isn't the best in GT but at least it's there and could be expanded on like one of the updates did iirc, would love more options though such as being able to choose the rate of wear and the amount of fuel the car starts with.

Forza is definitely lacking in this regard.

I agree. Tyre wear and fuel management is very important. It doesn't add anything to the short career races, but it makes the online races much more interesting.

In the Super GT race (the only one I won...) on Monza I and a few others had a one-stop strategy and I some of the other racers had a two-stop strategy. Once the two-stoppers figured out we were only doing one stop they had to adapt very quickly and I managed to snag the win on the last lap, mainly because I had practiced racing with really bad tyres.

 

[amar212]

WELP

I want my TAHITI CIRCUITS back Polyphony, damnit!

First Tahiti Road and then both Tahiti Maze and Tahiti Course - in all variations.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Not being compressed is not suddenly going to up the shadow resolution and fix the shitty texture filtering. Let's get real - this compression excuse can only go so far.

PNG

JPEG

PNG

JPEG

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

PNG

This doesn't prove anything. The images aren't even the same size, and even then I can tell they look virtually the same in terms of shadow quality and texture filtering.

 

[FordGTGuy]

This doesn't prove anything. The images aren't even the same size, and even then I can tell they look virtually the same in terms of shadow quality and texture filtering.

That was a accident that I just fixed, I'm not arguing against you I'm agreeing with you.

It's funny how the interior in the 512 TR above looks good even in JPEG compression...

 

[Risk Breaker]

Now all JPG are equally compressed, lol.

I think it's time to use the ignore tool.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Now all JPG are equally compressed, lol.

I think it's time to use the ignore tool.

So it's unfair to demonstrate the difference made by compression in a controlled test?

Ok then...

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

That was a accident that I just fixed, I'm not arguing against you I'm agreeing with you.

Yes I can see this now looking at your last few posts lol.

The only differences I can see are some small edge differences - particularly on the 512 logo. By and large though, there are about 95% similar.

Hell, there is even some SMOOTHING going on thanks to compression - note the aliasing on the metal seam above the rear window.

So, I guess the GT fan excuse of "compressioN!!!" followed by an onslaught of macroblock heavy Forza shots really doesn't hold any water.

 

[Az]

I think it will come good for some of you when we hit the 20k mark. It was all fun and games at one point but you guys take it another level.

 

[SunhiLegend]

Turn on simulation tire wear, get in a race car and burn your tires up and see how long they last..

I'm not going to purposely burn my tyres, that would defeat the whole purpose. If I'm racing on lemans and I do more than 10 laps without needing to pit for fresh tyres then it's a problem.

I'll have to wait until tomorrow to try so we'll see whether anything's changed since I last played it.

It might be true on fuel but not tires.

Most if not all of the complaints were specifically about tyre wear.

 

[saladine1]

Sound comparison FM4 stock and upgraded vs GT5 stock and upgraded.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uowcA8cyEI

What I love about Forza's muscle cars, is that for any astute fan out there, a Hemi is quite distinguishable from a Chevy for example. The lazy revs of a big block is distinguishable from a revvy small block for example.

GT5's samples when stock is bad enough, but once upgrades are applied, all hell breaks loose. A symphony of wacky PD magic.
GT's muscle cars turn into V6's when exhausts and other upgrades are applied.
I remember the first version of the Ford GT race car. It sounded terrible, just terrible. Like it had a 6 cylinder motor instead of 8. This pissed me off so much that I actually spammed and spammed the PS forums nearly everyday. I bitched and complained that this was shocking. Next update, the sounds of that car were patched. While they weren't terrific, at least it sounded closer to what a V8 should sound like.

 

[Angst]

I think it will come good for some of you when we hit the 20k mark. It was all fun and games at one point but you guys take it another level.

I think we have enough material here for a Forza vs GT Comparison Thread of Luke 17:11-19

Spoiler

And Jesus Laughed

 

[FordGTGuy]

I'm not going to purposely burn my tyres, that would defeat the whole purpose. If I'm racing on lemans and I do more than 10 laps without needing to pit for fresh tyres then it's a problem.

I'll have to wait until tomorrow to try so we'll see whether anything's changed since I last played it.

Most if not all of the complaints were specifically about tyre wear.

Tires are not going to wear out as fast on tracks that are mostly straight and if you're soft on the tires they will last even longer. Le Mans is a bad example, Nurburgring would be a way better way to determine if the tires wear correctly.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Now all JPG are equally compressed, lol.

I think it's time to use the ignore tool.

I know right.

Here is a wikipedia article guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG#JPEG_compression

So it's unfair to demonstrate the difference made by compression in a controlled test?

Ok then...

But what level of compression? It would be interesting to see how compressed that pic really is.

Not being compressed is not suddenly going to up the shadow resolution and fix the shitty texture filtering. Let's get real - this compression excuse can only go so far.

Yes your right.

 

[SatansReverence]

It might be true on fuel but not tires. Turn on simulation tire wear, get in a race car and burn your tires up and see how long they last..

Can't agree with you on tyres. They last a very long time regardless of car. Driving a 600ish HP XB GT on Racing Slicks around silverstone I used 50% fuel and only 25% of the tyres. It's not quite enough tyre wear and thats in a car where I'm still feathering the throttle in 3rd gear on corner exits.

Now all JPG are equally compressed, lol.

I think it's time to use the ignore tool.

I would love to see you take exactly the same screen cap but somehow "fix" it by saving it uncompressed. Please, go ahead, I await the results.

 

[Angst]

Bad jpeg compression:

Same car, no compression:

 

[Chance Hale]

 

 

[FordGTGuy]

But what level of compression? It would be interesting to see how compressed that pic really is.

Well the original picture is a 3840x2160 23.7 MB BMP file, which was converted to PNG and finally JPEG.

Photobucket forced it to be a PNG(8MB):

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

The original Lambo pic can't be that compressed - it's only about 20kb smaller than FordGTGuy's Ferrari 512 JPEG, which is decent quality.

 

[mil6es]

This thread is still all kinds of LOL we have people arguing over compression.....really....REALLY

 

[Pyramid head]

I wouldn't personally use this picture to do comparisons but it really isn't that badly compressed.

A good bit of compression might help hide the low polycount and nasty shadows.

 

[eso76]

Guys, stop this nonsense, please.

The pic is not representative of GT5 at all, but compression isn't the problem.
Compression and focus are not the excuse for aliasing, low resolution textures and low poly models.

It's just a pic taken with the purpose of making the game look bad, but it's not representative of what GT5 looks most of the time. That's all.

And that standard car GT5 pic above might look bad, but if you squint it can still look real.

Can we go back to celebrating both games and posting good pics of both now ? : (

 

[DD]

This thread just got EPIC. Subscribed again. LOL

 

[Ravensmash]

Less arguing, more pictures.

Not the most realistic shots, but think it showcases the modelling fairly well - good stuff.

Quoted for size.

Opinions?

 

[FordGTGuy]

Guys, stop this nonsense, please.

The pic is not representative of GT5 at all, but compression isn't the problem.
Compression and focus are not the excuse for aliasing, low resolution textures and low poly models.

It's just a pic taken with the purpose of making the game look bad, but it's not representative of what GT5 looks most of the time. That's all.

And that standard car GT5 pic above might look bad, but if you squint it can still look real.

Can we go back to celebrating both games and posting good pics of both now ? : (

We know we just think it's funny that they are defending the crappy way the picture looks with a compression excuse.

 

[oneida]

 

[Stillmatic]

I wouldn't personally use this picture to do comparisons but it really isn't that badly compressed.

Booted up the same car and track and it pretty much does look like this. The compression in that screen is actually barely noticeable too, if others have means of capturing they'd see it too. It's just an unflattering view.

 

[jett]

Yes it was. Just look at the text.

You are ridiculous.

OH NOES TEH COMPRESSION

No, it's not that bad(at all), the game simply looked like shit at the moment that picture was taken.

 

[Angst]

I know it's ugly. And still the wheels looks better than any wheels in Forza.