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[ManaByte]

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-hasnt-returned-to-dark-sun/

"I'll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways," Brink said. "And that's the main reason we haven't come back to it. We know it's got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there's love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible."

I don’t think there’s a single IP being destroyed faster than D&D. Danger hairs in Seattle are wiping out what TSR made popular.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Is it slavery? Never played dark suns but I'm guessing that and the opportunity to be more evil is why it's not being remade

 

[Bragr]

Is it slavery?

Seems like it.

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

 

[Lunarorbit]

Seems like it.

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

That was always obvious from the box art. Wonder if they don't want people acting out heavy metal.

 

[diffusionx]

Not shown: the carton of Soylent brink mainlined before this interview

 

[John Bilbo]

 

[Jinzo Prime]

"Problematic" has become my least favorite word in the English language.

 

[jason10mm]

Seems like it.

"... and its heavy use of slavery as a symbol of oppression would likely need to be updated due to evolving views on how oppressive systems are depicted in games."

Hang on, is he saying that slavery as a symbol of oppression is....an inappropriate use of slavery?

Just call 'em interns and we'll all get the joke.

 

[John Bilbo]

"Problematic" has become my least favorite word in the English language.

I'd say that's problematic

 

[LordCBH]

“It’s problematic “

Oh fuck off and just do what your fan base wants, you fucking pussy. Slap a fucking disclaimer at the start of the book and tell people who complain that they don’t have to buy it. Goddamn these companies are run by pussies.

 

[lifa-cobex]

"Problematic" has become my least favorite word in the English language.

“It’s problematic “

Oh fuck off and just do what your fan base wants, you fucking pussy. Slap a fucking disclaimer at the start of the book and tell people who complain that they don’t have to buy it. Goddamn these companies are run by pussies.

It's become a meaningless word and I also fucking despise it.
It used to mean something difficult to work with, solve or present.
"This math sum is problematic"

Now it's become "I'm terrified by its existence, lazy or offended by its existence".
In this case I think it's just out of laziness.
Yes, slavery bad. Now create a nuance take with the repercussions of slavery.
Also ignore the danger hairs.

 

[John Bilbo]

“It’s problematic “

Oh fuck off and just do what your fan base wants, you fucking pussy. Slap a fucking disclaimer at the start of the book and tell people who complain that they don’t have to buy it. Goddamn these companies are run by pussies.

I agree otherwise, but disclaimers are for pussies

 

[Drew1440]

Problematic for their ESG rating most likely.

 

[Wildebeest]

Seem to be plenty of computer games like that. Rimworld, Kenshi, that Conan game. It isn't the times they are just too corporate and scared of controversy. Other than the controversy of them being money grubbing and anticonsumer. But there are also a lot of nu-DnD community leaders who go all in on calling any sort of dark fantasy or horror content "cringe" or "problematic".

 

[Tams]

 

[Kacho]

Slaver ants better watch out!

Stuff like this is why modern media is so bland and toothless. WotC recently banned a ton of Magic cards for the same reason. Bunch of losers running the show over there.

 

[John Bilbo]

 

[Lunarorbit]

"Problematic" has become my least favorite word in the English language.

Ethical comsumption.

I'm sick of seeing this

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Goddamn these companies are run by pussies.

They are run by people who grew up while being coddled and without any conflict.

 

[Doom85]

OP conveniently leaves out the part where other D&D writers have expressed interest in reviving the setting……

And it’s not a big fucking deal if they remove slavery from the official books. It’s D&D, any DM worth a damn can easily add elements they wish to a pre-written campaign. Christ, if a DM ran a book exactly to every letter, the campaign would just end if the party ventured off the provided maps or blindsided the DM with an action the book doesn’t have a response to. NOBODY runs a pre-written book exactly to a tee unless you’re playing with an entire party who’s cheated and read the book themselves and are meta gaming.

So if you want your edgelord elements with the subtlety of a brick to the face in your campaign, relax, as long as your DM can handle writing middle school grade sentences, you’re going to survive.

Like, guys, can we think before we get all dramatic about this shit? There are some significant issues going on with the executives calling the shots at D&D, but this is some nothing news.

 

[ManaByte]

OP conveniently leaves out the part where other D&D writers have expressed interest in reviving the setting……

Doesn’t matter if other writers want to revive it when the person at WOTC who controls what gets made says they won’t do it.

 

[Doom85]

Doesn’t matter if other writers want to revive it when the person at WOTC who controls what gets made says they won’t do it.

His phrasing didn’t sound like he was 100% ruling it out ever happening, just why it hasn’t happened so far. If a writer gives a good pitch of their ideas, I could see it happening.

 

[ClanOfNone]

Dark Sun came out while I was in high school, it was awesome and quickly became my favorite setting.
Fuck wotc, play Kult: Divinity Lost instead.

 

[bitbydeath]

“It’s problematic “

Oh fuck off and just do what your fan base wants, you fucking pussy. Slap a fucking disclaimer at the start of the book and tell people who complain that they don’t have to buy it. Goddamn these companies are run by pussies.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Nice thing about the old campaign settings books is that they're relatively system agnostic. We don't necessarily need them to come back. Just gotta track them down.

I'm more concerned about the changes to druid

 

[BadBurger]

Another case of some people over scrutinizing fantasy and sci-fi and imagining problems where none actually exist (like the whole orc debacle).

I think in time, after they suffer enough losses to revenue and stop gaining new users, there will be a rebound effect starting with leadership changes.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-dragons-hasnt-returned-to-dark-sun/



I don’t think there’s a single IP being destroyed faster than D&D. Danger hairs in Seattle are wiping out what TSR made popular.

Pathfinder is even more woke from what I understand. It's all being destroyed.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Pathfinder is even more woke from what I understand. It's all being destroyed.

I haven't been paying attention to pathfinder. What's been going on there?

 

[Darkmakaimura]

I haven't been paying attention to pathfinder. What's been going on there?

From what I've heard from people, it's even worse than D&D.

I know they also changed the word "race" to "ancestry" now. I've also heard they are getting rid of slavery in the world or at least mentioning it as well.

Pretty much all these science fiction and fantasy RPGs are being destroyed this way. Dungeons and Dragons is not the only one. Warhammer 40,000 is going to be next and there's already talk of things like breaking lore just to be inclusive.

 

[Toons]

Like, guys, can we think before we get all dramatic about this shit? There are some significant issues going on with the executives calling the shots at D&D, but this is some nothing news.

LOL

No

 

[Wildebeest]

You wonder what sort of things "bad guys" will be allowed to do in games in the future to make it ethically worth the players going on an unstoppable murderhobo rampage? Perhaps the bad guys will say something problematic on twitter and not delete their account when it is pointed out.

 

[jason10mm]

HOT OFF THE PRESSES! WOTC BUYS LICENSE TO JOHN NORMAN'S GOR NOVELS. CHRIS PERKINS SAYS "WE ARE GONNA BE 100% FAITHFUL TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL"!!!

























Goddamn I loved the first couple of books. It did devolve even for my lewd and lecherous tastes but it was still a fun run.

 

[shoplifter]

His phrasing didn’t sound like he was 100% ruling it out ever happening, just why it hasn’t happened so far. If a writer gives a good pitch of their ideas, I could see it happening.

Given the typical 5e release, do you expect it to be anything good or useful?

Seriously, at this point, thank fuck I still have all of my BX, 1e and 2e stuff so I can play Actual D&D rather than the garbage WotC is shitting out.

HOT OFF THE PRESSES! WOTC BUYS LICENSE TO JOHN NORMAN'S GOR NOVELS. CHRIS PERKINS SAYS "WE ARE GONNA BE 100% FAITHFUL TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL"!!!



Goddamn I loved the first couple of books. It did devolve even for my lewd and lecherous tastes but it was still a fun run.

Already exists, and it's by Grim Jim.

 

[jason10mm]

Already exists, and it's by Grim Jim.

GotDAMN, look at that cover art! Gonna have to track this down...

 

[TransTrender]

Why would this even be a problem.

It's a fucking fantasy world.

It's like these people don't have a thimble of imagination.

 

[CGNoire]

"Problematic" has become my least favorite word in the English language.

Its just DoubleSpeak for "Politicaly Inconvient".

 

[CGNoire]

So if you want your edgelord elements with the subtlety of a brick to the face in your campaign, relax, as long as your DM can handle writing middle school grade sentences, you’re going to survive.

Wtf are talking about?

What exactly about slavery being a theme in DarkSun makes it edgelord?
Or where you just trying to label anyone who likes DarkSun/Conan world as edgelords?

Why cant some of you just admit you hate 90s pop culture and drop this deragoatory edgelord label you use to dismiss all the tastes of those you dont share interests with?

 

[Claus Grimhildyr]

OP conveniently leaves out the part where other D&D writers have expressed interest in reviving the setting……

And it’s not a big fucking deal if they remove slavery from the official books. It’s D&D, any DM worth a damn can easily add elements they wish to a pre-written campaign. Christ, if a DM ran a book exactly to every letter, the campaign would just end if the party ventured off the provided maps or blindsided the DM with an action the book doesn’t have a response to. NOBODY runs a pre-written book exactly to a tee unless you’re playing with an entire party who’s cheated and read the book themselves and are meta gaming.

So if you want your edgelord elements with the subtlety of a brick to the face in your campaign, relax, as long as your DM can handle writing middle school grade sentences, you’re going to survive.

Like, guys, can we think before we get all dramatic about this shit? There are some significant issues going on with the executives calling the shots at D&D, but this is some nothing news.

All this tells me is that you are completely ignorant on the subject and have no reason speaking on it. You do realize this isn't Twitter, right?

 

[Claus Grimhildyr]

Wtf are talking about?

What exactly about slavery being a theme in DarkSun makes it edgelord?
Or where you just trying to label anyone who likes DarkSun/Conan world as edgelords?

Why cant some of you just admit you hate 90s pop culture and drop this deragoatory edgelord label you use to dismiss all the tastes of those you dont share interests with?

It's always the same handful of users who battle on ideological lines. They have nothing of real value to say, speak with authority on subjects they are not well versed on (or completely ignorant too) and try to silence any criticism.

 

[Soodanim]

America's solution to a past it doesn't like is to run away from it and never mention it again. Never mind slavery existing before and after the Transatlantic Slave Trade in many more places, America gets triggered by it so that's that.

Let everyone play it, and let tables manage themselves as they do with every single thing that happens in an improvisational game.

 

[CGNoire]

America's solution to a past it doesn't like is to run away from it and never mention it again. Never mind slavery existing before and after the Transatlantic Slave Trade in many more places, America gets triggered by it so that's that.

Let everyone play it, and let tables manage themselves as they do with every single thing that happens in an improvisational game.

Not too mention that the only truly reasonable conversation about this begins and ends with "Its Fiction ......and case closed"

This new attitude that all fiction should reflect the real world is just nonsense and represents a fundamental misunderstanding of both fiction and the purpose of escapism in general.

Its so obvious that these activist dont want to escape at all and in fact much rather reinforce there world beliefs all in an attempt to to wash away any chance of feeling uncomfortable ever again.

Its like how devoid of imagination can someone be?
Slavery in a book or setting is not in anyway shape or form "celebrating it"
Even if someone role plays as a slave owner or if a movie has a protagonist who happens to be one it doesnt matter. The story mixed with the intent of the author matters.

This whole decouppling of intent from someone actions is just a backdoor so they can make the case that reparrations collected from whites who didnt own or benefit from slaves at all is a "just cause" and to convince the public "there getting what they deserve."

Intent matters period. Fuck anyone who says different or who trys to recruit others to there self serving "cause".

 

[Jinzo Prime]

This new attitude that all fiction should reflect the real world is just nonsense and represents a fundamental misunderstanding of both fiction and the purpose of escapism in general.

Its so obvious that these activist dont want to escape at all and in fact much rather reinforce there world beliefs all in an attempt to to wash away any chance of feeling uncomfortable ever again.

These people truly believe in thoughtcrime, that if you imagine something bad, than you are bad.

Acting out a fantasy does not make you evil. Performing a Fatality in Mortal Kombat won't make you cut someone's head off in real life. This is the same moralist bullshit from the 80's in a different costume.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

America's solution to a past it doesn't like is to run away from it and never mention it again. Never mind slavery existing before and after the Transatlantic Slave Trade in many more places, America gets triggered by it so that's that.

Let everyone play it, and let tables manage themselves as they do with every single thing that happens in an improvisational game.

The US is the most reactionary country on Earth. Anything can set off the general public or government to change things. It's like nobody does any research to see if it's worth doing (time, effort and money) and how many people out of the 330M people really care or not about it.

Literally one emotional tweet can be enough to make companies and government spin their wheels, while making mobs of people amped up in anger.

Although to be fair, there's always a safety issue everyone has to consider. So you got to always weigh the risk of some guy or group going ape shit, so sometimes it might be better to bend or purposely lose the battle to make them feel better. Crime is so high and unpredictable, it's better to give in to the masses in certain situations.

Put it this way, I'm not a big traveler, but out of all the countries and cities I've been to the only places I've ever seen bullet proof glass check out counters at variety stores and fast food joints, along with police patrols with giant attack dogs patrolling the subway cars at midnight have all been in the US.

Just to grab some late night Subway sandwiches one time with buddies, the only way to pay the cashier was to put the money into some bullet proof turning thing. It turns to the cashier to pay and she turns it back to you with the change and your food. Insane.

Another good one, I forget if it was Chicago or downtown NY, a bunch of needed to to a taxi. There were too many of us to jam in the backseat (4 of us), so it makes sense one of us gets into the passenger seat like the million other times I've done that with friends. He wouldnt let one of us in the front seat. The guys got an empty seat but nobody could use it. We didn't want to take two taxis, so it took some convincing to I guess show we arent criminals. So he gave in. We all get in and we notice there's fucking bullet proof glass between the front and back with a tiny little slot or hole to talk to the driver from the back. lol

 

[Jinzo Prime]

The US is the most reactionary country on Earth. Anything can set off the general public or government to change things. It's like nobody does any research to see if it's worth doing (time, effort and money) and how many people out of the 330M people really care or not about it.

Literally one emotional tweet can be enough to make companies and government spin their wheels, while making mobs of people amped up in anger.

Although to be fair, there's always a safety issue everyone has to consider. So you got to always weigh the risk of some guy or group going ape shit, so sometimes it might be better to bend or purposely lose the battle to make them feel better. Crime is so high and unpredictable, it's better to give in to the masses in certain situations.

Put it this way, I'm not a big traveler, but out of all the countries and cities I've been to the only places I've ever seen bullet proof glass check out counters at variety stores and fast food joints, along with police patrols with giant attack dogs patrolling the subway cars at midnight have all been in the US.

Just to grab some late night Subway sandwiches one time with buddies, the only way to pay the cashier was to put the money into some bullet proof turning thing. It turns to the cashier to pay and she turns it back to you with the change and your food. Insane.

Another good one, I forget if it was Chicago or downtown NY, a bunch of needed to to a taxi. There were too many of us to jam in the backseat (4 of us), so it makes sense one of us gets into the passenger seat like the million other times I've done that with friends. He wouldnt let one of us in the front seat. The guys got an empty seat but nobody could use it. We didn't want to take two taxis, so it took some convincing to I guess show we arent criminals. So he gave in. We all get in and we notice there's fucking bullet proof glass between the front and back with a tiny little slot or hole to talk to the driver from the back. lol

It's weird, that kind of stuff is only seen in big cities. If you live in a midsized town or city you never see that shit. Some places in the US ore like a foreign country to me.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It's weird, that kind of stuff is only seen in big cities. If you live in a midsized town or city you never see that shit. Some places in the US ore like a foreign country to me.

And no doubt true. I dont doubt you.

Unfortunately big media focuses on what happens in the big cities where most of the dopiness happens.

 

[ResurrectedContrarian]

The silver lining of WotC completely ruining D&D is that I’ve rediscovered the golden era.

You can download everything in beautiful PDF from archive.org: the DMG/PHB/MON for AD&D 1e, 2e, the BECMI (“basic”) books, the Rules Cyclopedia (final form of basic), all the modules, and even all the back issues of Dungeon mag (mini adventures) and Dragon mag (rules, etc).

The amount of amazing (A)D&D content at your fingertips for free is staggering. There’s no excuse for playing the brain-dead WotC rules and editions anymore.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

America's solution to a past it doesn't like is to run away from it and never mention it again. Never mind slavery existing before and after the Transatlantic Slave Trade in many more places, America gets triggered by it so that's that.

Let everyone play it, and let tables manage themselves as they do with every single thing that happens in an improvisational game.

True fact: There are more slaves today than ever before. China is trafficking people all over the world to do hard labor there, the middle east and Africa. Yet certain groups like to ignore that and focus on an institution that ended 200 years ago.

 

[Lasha]

I've never heard of the setting. Is it worth getting a copy?

 

[HoodWinked]

"Problematic" has become my least favorite word in the English language.

"problematic" also pairs with "do better" every time.

 

[CGNoire]

The silver lining of WotC completely ruining D&D is that I’ve rediscovered the golden era.

You can download everything in beautiful PDF from archive.org: the DMG/PHB/MON for AD&D 1e, 2e, the BECMI (“basic”) books, the Rules Cyclopedia (final form of basic), all the modules, and even all the back issues of Dungeon mag (mini adventures) and Dragon mag (rules, etc).

The amount of amazing (A)D&D content at your fingertips for free is staggering. There’s no excuse for playing the brain-dead WotC rules and editions anymore.

Yep beem download everyrhing AD&D 2nd edition. Seeing those Easley Covers again is like comfort food..